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Report on 9/11 - My Conspiracy; My take on what happened.
Topic Started: Jul 9 2008, 04:03 PM (754 Views)
Aidan
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Someone is a retard.

(=

.Ukers don't get treated very nicely here as you may have guessed by now. Not by me at least.
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Liam //
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Khasck
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Now wut.
:D
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James#2
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Now examining evidence and other happenings that are not truly to coincide with this incident, the first theory I would like to disprove is the pentagon hole.

Liam gave me a question, why would a plane that large leave such a small hole in the building.

He then gave me something that disproves his own theory to this argument.

I studied the plane, a B-25 bomber that had crashed into the Empire State Building. The pilot had flown into New York, Manhatten in dense fog, he had actually managed to sway from many other sky scrapers until he made a wrong turn which eventually forced him to TRY to move out of the way of the Empire State building. But before he could manuever his plane in the correct direction it slammed into the tower. Now let's first assume that the plane hit head on into the empire state building.

The B-25 Bomber was designed with a wing span of 18 feet, and the length of the airplane was 67 ft. Though if you look at the design of the airplane you can see that it's wings just like many other aircraft at that time were closer to the nose of the air plane, and not as slanted backwards so the wings themselves would either snap off easily breaking from the aircraft itself allowing it to tunnle into the building at a smaller entrance point, or it would ram the blunt end of the winds into a weakened state of the building allowing them to literally cut into the building as well, which would only cause the plane to create a larger hole due to fuel being kept mostly in the wings at those times for Bombers, because the belly of the craft was used mostly for bombing carriages. This means that if the B-25 bomber's wings were clipped which it states no mention of the hole would have been smaller and the explosion would have been smaller as well. You can look up the fuel system which is a Wright R-2600 support engine, which houses the fuel sources.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wright_R-2600

Though because it does not say anything of it's wings being clipped I'm going to assume the entire craft was able to impale the Empire state buidling. First I'm going to say that...

If the fuel source of the B-25 Bomber was kept on the wings and they too impaled into the building, it would only create a hole larger than it actually did, as you would suspect, not a hole 18 feet wide and twenty feet high. So all I'm going to say about this is because it didn't create a hole as suspected by me due to what you think might happen, it's a conspiracy as well.

The real reason the Jet Liner, which was going five hundred or more miles an hour left a smaller hole than imagined would be in the structural blueprints of the plane itself, and the blueprints of the WTC. Just tell me this, which is bigger...an entrance wound or an exit wound?



Quote:
 
"Conspiracism serves the needs of diverse political and social groups in America and elsewhere. It identifies elites, blames them for economic and social catastrophes, and assumes that things will be better once popular action can remove them from positions of power. As such, conspiracy theories do not typify a particular epoch or ideology".
This means that due to the main fuel depositorys in the B-25 Bombers being housed in the wings and that only ONE of the jet engines actually made it into the building, the fire would have been less intense therefore less dangerouse to the architectural design of the buliding itself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Empire_St...nd_construction

Now tell me why I wonder, that a B-25 Bomber not even half the size of an Air Liner crashes into the Empire State Building, one Engine full of fuel ripping from the opposite side and another falling down the elevator shaft, that doesn't house Jet Fuel mind you because it wasn't a Jet, it was a WW2 Bomber, wouldn't burn down a building that's built out of steel. Conspiracy!?!?!?

No, science. The lack of fuel needed to truly burn down the Empire State Building at the time would not suffice for burning it down, but only injuring the building in it's structure. Did I mention that it wasn't a high grade Jet Fuel that burns hotter? I hope so.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Secondly, the black box theory.

The Black Box as of recently was updated to a titanium alloy mix to protect it.

A metallic element, titanium is recognized for its high strength-to-weight ratio.[6] It is a light, strong metal with low density that, when pure, is quite ductile (especially in an oxygen-free environment),[19] lustrous, and metallic-white in color. The relatively high melting point (over 1,649 °C or 3,000 °F) makes it useful as a refractory metal.

When pure of course. But when it is diluted into other softer metals with lower grade melting points, it becomes not stronger, but even more ductile especially to extreme and hazardous environments. And don't you dare say a Jet Liner slamming Five Hundred miles an hour into a tower designed to stop suction from the inside of the building due to it's height, causing an inside fire storm of the building with intense burning fuel and a very low oxydised level of area to be in, not extreme. The black box is intially stored in the tail of linerse such as those, so that the focal point of a crash which is the nose does not disrupt it as much, so that hte box can be saved.

But picture the tail, being slammed head first into a fire storm of heat and smoke, the fire itself literally and almost silumtaniously depriving that entire area of oxygen holding the black box, which is made of titaium being thrown into that hellstorm. Not only would the heat of the fire almost instantly liquidise the black box, the towering of the structural facility seeing that the WTC were some of the highest buildings in the world, crushing down on that black box IF not already destroyed, would completely obliterate any sign of existance that the black box itself had.

I choose not to argue through conspiritist web pages on the other hand for it only leads to the conspiritist telling me I'm wrong and he's right because he read it off another conspiritist web page.


Quote:
 
"Conspiracism serves the needs of diverse political and social groups in America and elsewhere. It identifies elites, blames them for economic and social catastrophes, and assumes that things will be better once popular action can remove them from positions of power. As such, conspiracy theories do not typify a particular epoch or ideology".
- In other words, have all the opnions you want, but because you're a Conspiratist there's nothing to trust from you, because you won't trust others but yourselves, and by yourselves I mean your own little group of buddys and pals that enjoys blaming your own government for things that they didn't do.
'

Validity

Perhaps the most contentious aspect of a conspiracy theory is the problem of settling a particular theory's truth to the satisfaction of both its proponents and its opponents. Particular accusations of conspiracy vary widely in their plausibility, but some common standards for assessing their likely truth value may be applied in each case[citation needed]:

* Occam's razor - is the alternative story more complicated and therefore less probable than the mainstream story?
* Logic - Do the proofs offered follow the rules of logic, or do they employ Fallacies of logic?
* Methodology - are the proofs offered for the argument well constructed, i.e., using sound methodology? Is there any clear standard to determine what evidence would prove or disprove the theory?
* Whistleblowers - how many people — and what kind — have to be loyal conspirators?
* Falsifiability - Is it possible to demonstrate that specific claims of the theory are false, or are they "unfalsifiable"?

The US academic Noam Chomsky contrasts conspiracy theory as more or less the opposite of institutional analysis, which focuses mostly on the public, long-term behaviour of publicly known institutions, as recorded in, e.g. scholarly documents or mainstream media reports, rather than secretive coalitions of individuals.[14][15]


Last thing to disprove and I can do it without evidence because logic simply rules out your crack-pot theories.

The reason why those people on the planes, their remains weren't truly found was because they were almost instantly vaporized in the crash itself and that's the obvious conclusion. You said it yourself that the fuel burns quickly, but you failed to mention that it also burns very intensely. That's why they didn't find the remains of every single victim in the 9/11 attacks. It was simply because there weren't any to find, they were vaporized. And if you don't thing that's possible then go stand on a pit of lava and see how long it takes for you to dissipate into nothing.


I retract my statement about my last disproval of your theories.

I want to take a minute to tell you about fire proof filiment, which as well does not need sources because of the sole fact that I've seen and handled fireproof filiment for myself.

Here's a secret Liam..it's not superglue. Picture fiberglass grinded with the dust you pull from a vacuum back, mixed with a light coat of something that could help it stick to metal objects.

Now what they do is they take this hose, right. And they simply spray the metal columns with this mixture. And because it's sprayed on and it sticks, it's not supported by anything but that sticky material. In other words it's kind of like spraying your ceiling with a rough material to make it look more rugged, but it doesn't harden or soften, it's material compounds and physicality's stay the same. Do you NOT think that a bullet the size of a building can't fly into a building sending a hellstorm of fire, bringing the suction of the wind into the inside of the building because of it's height and combinging it with the suction of the depleating oxygen molecules in the air..would bring the filiment from the pillars leaving the support beams vulnerable to flame? Are you telling me that it's impossible?

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Dielection
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Owned by James.
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James#2
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Oh, some more things you should want to know.

Each and every window in the towers were shoulder width apart, allowing them to burst more easily under pressure of damage and heat.

One thing you have to ask yourselves too is, why would America themselves want to destroy the tellest buildings in the world in which stood for a symbol of it's strength and acted as a trade center, for the WORLD.

Did I fail to mention that there was a foundation under WTC was also designed to help support the hudson river's pressure against it, something called the Slurry Wall. A portion of it collapsed as the buildings fell over.

The second plane that hit also tore into the buliding at an angle, something you failed to mention. An angle which expressed it's lenghts and width, as it tore the hole into the building, which it did.

The reason the second tower fell first was because of it's lower contact point, the heat not MELTING but SOFTENING the TRUSSES forced the UPPER part of the TOWER to COLLAPSE onto the LOWER part of the TOWER.

Now tell me your logical thinking for how bombs set that off, in a domlitioned and controlled way.

I'm not providing you with anymore proof either, you got yourself into this argument so if you want to find the PROOF that isn't FALSIFIED by CONSPIRITIST MORONS that want nothing to do but point out our own government for actions they couldn't control, then go find the information yourself.

Two more things.

Windows, I be tyou didn't observe nor hear the black box recording from the one that crashed in Penn. did you? I did.

All passaengers ordered to sit in place, pilot cockpit doors closed, SOME not ALL were able to use their cell phones on eaceh flight, but you forgot to overview the cell phone and high trasnmitting signal phone recordings from the plane as well, didn't you?

"Where are you right now?"
"I dont know, Im' on a plane over a big river. Teres, grass, farm land!"


No windows?

What about obtituarys, flight logs of the people on those FLIGHT NUMBERS, Do you think the Government killed them off in their homes, to cover it up? No, I guess you didn't.

The last piece of proof I have is myself staying hom sick on 9/11. and as in sick I mean just not wanting to go to school that day.

I remember watching the news, about the first plane hitting and seeing live footage of the second one hitting.

I remember plainly seeing a silver jetliner, with the sun reflecting off the sides slamming into the side of the building.

Want to know what i STILL saw, despite the sunlight?

Windows, jackass. Plain as can be on the LIVE newscast of the plane hitting into the tower. Don't believe me? PRobably not, they probably just painted a small lining in the middle of the craft to make it look like windows, correct?
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Liam //
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First reply does nothing to disprove the theory that bombs were set off.
Nor does the second.

You telling me what a black box can and cannot withstand doesn't make up for teh PAPER that was found around the building which originally subsided in the plane itself.

Quote:
 
What about obtituarys, flight logs of the people on those FLIGHT NUMBERS, Do you think the Government killed them off in their homes, to cover it up? No, I guess you didn't.


Perhaps no one was on the plane?

Watch the videos again, none of them show windows on the plane.
And listen to the logs of the people on the street.
"It sounded like a series of bombs going off"
"It looked like a large military plane"
'It sounded like explosions, almost like fireworks"
"I heard explosions"
"I saw a dark gray plane"

Listen to firefighter logs
"We all know what happened, we're all just to afraid to admit it"

Nothing you're giving me is disproving that bombs were used.

People are allowed to have their own theories, you have yours - and i have mine.

Once again, i've never said my theory was correct - i said it was more logical.

There are to many chances involved in the two towers going down by the planes alone.

IF the fuel traveled to the right places.
IF the flames went in the right way
IF the wind blew right
IF the plane hit hard enough
IF the plane hit close enough

or you could have;
If the government snuck into one of their own buildings and planted bombs.
Not so hard to do.
Specially when two weeks earlier they had a fire drill, and after they had the fire drill - they issued all bomb sniffing dogs to "lay off"


Once again, you can believe what you want, and i'll believe what i want.

Until the FBI releases some actual proof of what hit the two towers, or the octagon, the proof that they HAVE in possesion as we speak - but refuse to release it, until they release that footage or those black boxes that were "destroyed" i will continue believing this.
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Aidan
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Occam's Razor.

I love James again.

=)

Look at the facts Liam, no matter what you say, there is one simple thing you have not considered.

Reason.

What is the reason behind it?
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James#2
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It does, though actually.

If you would analyze a Jet Liner the lower back belly, instead of a WW2 plane contrains the fuel, the pilots were in the front, which were also the terrorsits.

This proves that the passports upon contact could have been slung from the cockpit instead of instantly incinerated.

Perhaps they didn't die? Yes, and perhaps the familys of those "victims" were all payed actors, of course they would accept payment to state false alligations to misslead an organization.

Perhaps the Government themselves took their own militarized planes and threw them into their own towers that eventually led to Americas downfall in the economy.

So, let's break it down into something you failed ot mention.


If the government would want to devise their own economic downfall
If the government would want to instill fear into the nation themselves through their own acts of terror
If the government implanted their own bombs into the WTC
If the government stole millions of dollars of gold even though they have Ft. Knox in their grasp

---------------------------------------------------------------------

It seems the if's on both sides are pretty equal then, making your logical thinking as equal as mine, meaning you're logical thinking is not superior to mine, meaning your logical thinking isn't as stone cold as you would have though.

By the way, The Pentagon* also have five different layers of walls reinforced with steel, and stone and a bullet, which basically is the jetliner due to it's sleek design with slanted wings that fall to the tail, and a smaller nose drove into the building, it would prove that a smaller hole is totally logical.

And if the fuel traveled to the right places?

You yourself said there was a slight angle in all the floors to make sure that if the fire sprinklers went off it would reach the elevator shafts.

But you also failed to mention that there were over 37 different emergency exits, 20 different staircases, etc etc.

Get what I'm saying? Unchecked and unchallenged fluid travels anywhere it wishes to, do you not think those emergency exits/staircases/doors to floors wouldnt be open due to the evacuation sequence?

Lastly, don't give me that you believe what I believe shit.

In reality what you're saying is

"You believe what you want to believe, but you're wrong."

"I'll believe what I want to believe, and I'm right."

Otherwise you wouldn't spend your time trying to disprove and point fingers, you would simply walk away and believe what you believe, instead of spreading what in my eyes is blasphemous.
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James
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The one thing I'll say is in response to James' own response:

Quote:
 
One thing you have to ask yourselves too is, why would America themselves want to destroy the tellest buildings in the world in which stood for a symbol of it's strength and acted as a trade center, for the WORLD.


There is a very simple reason. America can be guaranteed to have been keeping tabs on Iraq, this could quite well have been he glue to keep people involved. Think about it, without this attack, the idea of a "war on terror" meant nothing. With it, America could rally the world to a common objective of defeating terror.

I can't really explain it in typing, it's more of a spoken thing.
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Alek.
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Not this again.
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Aidan
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"Believe that if you want to, it's your opinion."

Of course it's my fucking opinion, whose else would it be.

Maddox. <3


Liam, between myself, Reid and James, every theory and scrap of evidence you have put forth has been proven wrong, doubted or shown to be erroneous so why do you keep fighting?

Hasn't the penny dropped yet?
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Aidan
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Double Post.

James (the one without the #2), America did not need a reason to invade Iraq. That is a false statement to make. I was expecting Liam to put that one forward but you got there first.

The simple fact is, America is the largest, most advanced superpower in the world. It is arrogant, self righteous and most of all, doesn't actually give a shit what anyone else thinks. It would have gone to war in Iraq whether this happened or not.
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Liam Sr.
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Those who don't believe, full of shit. Only one piece of evidence I rely on. Coroners report was leaked out. I'll try and find the link to it again, Missile filings were found just inside the right hand side of the front part of the pentagon.
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Aidan
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Missile filings?

Really?

In a military building?

In fact, THE military building. The home of the Defence Organisation of the US?

Really?

Missiles?

Wow.

That's fucking impossible.
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Liam Sr.
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Yes because obviousley the pentagon keep tomahawks hanging on the walls you absolute fucking plank.
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