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Karakalpak y-chromosome; original title: "The Karakalpaks"
Topic Started: Mar 25 2012, 12:49:32 AM (564 Views)
sahaliyan
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http://rjgg.org/index.php/RJGGRE/article/view/119
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black man
The Right Hand
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Thanks, sahaliyan.

I totally forgot this article. Ren will be interested in Kitai O3, I guess.
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sahaliyan
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black man
Mar 25 2012, 04:57:37 PM
Thanks, sahaliyan.

I totally forgot this article. Ren will be interested in Kitai O3, I guess.
Their O3 is M117
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skywalker
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Any ideas on the origins of these M117?
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black man
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addendum:

On Tort Uruw (Balearesque et al. 2015):
n=54; probably EEA only: 23=42,6%
C-M217+, M48-: 17=31,5%=73,9%
G: 14=25,9%
I: 3
J: 7
N-M46+: 4=7,4%=17,4%
O-M134+: 1=1,9%=4,3%
Q-P36+: 1=1,9%=4,3%
R-SRY10832+: 5=9,3%
R-P25+, M269-: 2=3,7%

Qongrat (Balearesque et al. 2015):
n=54; probably EEA only: 31=57,4%
C-M217+, M48-: 11=20,4%=35,5%
G: 1=1,9%
J: 1=1,9%
N-P43+: 3=5,6%=9,7%
N-M46+: 9=16,7%=29,0%
O-M134+: 2=3,7%=6,5%
Q-P36+: 6=11,1%=19,4%
R-SRY10832+: 16=29,6%
R-P25+, M269-: 4=7,4%
R-P25+, M269+: 2=3,7%

=> so...
- judging from the SNP data only, those which are potentially at "tribal" level are C-M217+, M38-, G, N-M46+ and R-SRY10832+
- G is (IMO at least) local rather than "originally Turkic"
- Q could be at "minor tribal" or "major clannish" level
- O-M134+ and R-P25+ might be at "minor clannish" level or "nominally clannish" only




old post:

zen disciple
Mar 26 2012, 06:53:02 AM
Any ideas on the origins of these M117?
Despite of their genealogical traditions, these people don't seem to trace back their ancestry extremely far into the past. Sabitov himself starts with the 17th century when writing about the Karakalpaks in general.

If you take a closer look at Sabitov's samples, you'll possibly be prone to guess that some groups are more East Eurasian than others:

Alip Nukus: J2 (4) > C3 (1), Q (1)
Baymakly (including the questionable case): C3 (2) > O3-M134+, M117- (1)
Kanly: R1b-M73 (2), R1b-M269 (1), R1a (1), C3 (1)
Keneges (including the questionable case): C3 (3) > G2 (1)
Koldauly (including the questionable case): M46 (3) > G2 (2) > Q (1)
Kypchak: 8 different hgs reported, WE (5) > EE (4)
Kytai: O3-M134+, M117+ (5) > C3 (1), R2 (1)

The Kytai seem to be one of these "possibly more East Eurasian" groups. And indeed, one anthropometric survey once confirmed that the Kytai have relatively narrower foreheads than the Kychak. Further, one might be prone to guess that Samodian, Yeniseian etc ancestry is generally not much pronounced in the Karakalpaks. Actually, the mtDNA hg distribution in their region would back such a statement since mtDNA hg C occurs at moderately high frequencies (between 10 and 20 of the East Eurasian hgs) only and F1b is as rare as it is usually. In other words: M117 IMO just implies some higher level of presence of non-Samodian and non-Yeniseian East Eurasian ancestry. Nothing more, nothing less. O2a-M95 in one Uzbek (Wells 2001) and Q-M120 in two Uygurs (Zhong Hua 2010) IMO indicated a certain abundance of non-Siberian East Eurasian y hgs in Turkic-speakers, too.
Edited by black man, Apr 16 2017, 11:47:28 PM.
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