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| K1'2'3'4-MNOPS (but not L or T) brothers! | |
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| Topic Started: Oct 28 2009, 01:50 AM (317 Views) | |
| ren | Oct 28 2009, 01:50 AM Post #1 |
Yoda
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I just had a nutty epiphany. All the members who've tested are NOP. Ibra R1a1, manju - R2, some other R1b dude goobuk gojoon or something like that, me, natsuya - O3-M134(xM117) are O We are all brothers! We should love one another! |
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| manju | Oct 31 2009, 04:48 PM Post #2 |
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doubter
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I feel a stronger cosmic connectedness to Chinese females (mine is M50...so any M clades) than to Chinese males  !
Edited by manju, Oct 31 2009, 04:50 PM.
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| natsuya | Nov 3 2009, 01:02 AM Post #3 |
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Member
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http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_YDNATreeTrunk09.html In ISOGG Y-DNA Tree, haplogroup NOP is defined by rs2033003, L and T don't have the SNP, but M and S show "position relative to rs2033003 uncertain", what does it mean? Does that mean M and S could be closer to NOP than L and T? Edited by natsuya, Nov 3 2009, 01:05 AM.
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| Ibra | Nov 3 2009, 09:25 AM Post #4 |
Global Mod
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I think it just means that theres more information on L and T (Eurasian Haplogroups) to positively rule out that they are downstream of NOP compared to M and S (Oceanic Haplogroups) that are less often reviewed. Anyhow perhaps < 1000 years separate K from NOP. |
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| ren | Nov 5 2009, 11:45 PM Post #5 |
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Yoda
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I looked at the 23andMe data. L and T have been tested for rs2033003. M and S have not been, because they have no M and S individuals. It is very unlikely that M and S would test positive. NOP looks to be a northern phenomenon. I've taken a few looks at the KongLong forum. Some of the things discussed are years behind findings. I am in clarity now, and the initial post was lame. I will delete it.  And merge this one with the previous NOP thread. |
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| natsuya | Nov 20 2009, 08:04 PM Post #6 |
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Member
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http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2009/11/y-chromosome-diversity-human-expansion.html http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2009/11/12/0910803106/suppl/DCSupplemental Now there is MNOPS!! What a great news!! |
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| Ibra | Nov 21 2009, 02:10 AM Post #7 |
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Global Mod
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Good news indeed. Here is the full paper.
Edited by Ibra, Nov 21 2009, 02:10 AM.
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| ren | Nov 22 2009, 06:14 AM Post #8 |
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Yoda
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Interesting. So it looks like my hunch was right about the "onward coastal" migration that ties South Asia and Central Asia after an intial split with West Eurasia. However, I was wrong about the unlikelihood of M and S being in the party. I wish I hadn't said it. One of the few instances where I have to eat my words. natsuya, my analysis of NO basal branches still show a northern origin though. I know you guys at KongLong.com are of the Southern Origin camp. HOWever, the origin of pre-NO is now up for grabs. NOP would suggest a northern origin but KMNOPS makes both scenarios possible. I ｇｕｅｓｓ ｂｙ Ｋ ｔｈｅｙ ｍｅａｎ Ｋ１， Ｋ２， Ｋ３， ａｎｄ Ｋ４， ｗｈｉｃｈ ａｒｅ ｆｏｕｎｄ ｉｎ Oceanｉａ (K2-4) and South Asia (K1). Since L is not part of this party, it looks like it definitely came to South Asia as a later migration from further west, perhaps early Neolithic or Mesolithic. I get some satisfaction over Maju finally admitting that R might not be an early Paleolithic Hg in Europe. But he still needs a long way to go to reach reality, that R is a recent Neolithic phenomenon in Europe. We support you in your rehab, Maju! Remember, we still love here at Quetzalcoatl. 
Edited by ren, Nov 22 2009, 12:36 PM.
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| JCA | Nov 22 2009, 06:35 PM Post #9 |
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Advanced Member
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That file seems to be broken. |
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| Ibra | Nov 22 2009, 07:38 PM Post #10 |
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Global Mod
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JCA, I find that it works fine in any browser however I will up load it to sendspace. Tell me if it works. http://www.sendspace.com/file/y4tqwv |
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| JCA | Nov 22 2009, 08:32 PM Post #11 |
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Advanced Member
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No trouble this time. Thank you!
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| ren | Nov 23 2009, 06:38 AM Post #12 |
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Yoda
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Ok, K1-M147 is an individual mutation owned by a single person, according to ISOGG. I doubt they tested it, and the paper even refers to K only in the context of Oceania. I guess the old K should be renamed KT and the new K2'3'4MNOPS should be named K. That's the easiest way. As for K2-4, not much info available except that they were mentioned in Karafet 2008. They together with M and S might form a single Oceanic branch in the future, and with NO might form a branch under a South Asian K, if NO came through a southern route. |
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| natsuya | Nov 23 2009, 09:10 AM Post #13 |
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http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=MImg&_imagekey=B8JDD-4RH3CKK-8-N&_cdi=43612&_user=10&_orig=search&_coverDate=09%2F30%2F2005&_sk=999229996&view=c&wchp=dGLbVlb-zSkzk&_valck=1&md5=ecb1dc3abdcc60d1271758e3e8c65240&ie=/sdarticle.pdf O3 has a southern origin in East Asia, and so are O*, O1, O2. I remember there was a study saying that N has a Southeast Asian origin too. So that makes both N and O come from the south, and the homeland of NO is likely the same place. Edited by natsuya, Nov 23 2009, 09:16 AM.
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| natsuya | Nov 23 2009, 09:24 AM Post #14 |
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Member
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A counter-clockwise northern route of the Y-chromosome haplogroup N from Southeast Asia towards Europe http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v15/n2/abs/5201748a.html |
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| ren | Nov 23 2009, 03:30 PM Post #15 |
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Yoda
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Well, let's start with your first link. There is a lot of problems with Shi's conclusions. The most basic problem is that his "NE Asian" sample consists only of Mandarin-speaking Han, which seems rather to be the result of a "recent" expansion from a core area after the Mongols slaughtered much of Northern China, while his "SE Asian" sample consists of not only different ethnic groups, but different language families, including Southern Chinese (and Mandarin-speaking regions that are known to be have mainly due to migration from the north after the Mongol slaughter - Sichuan)，including Tibetans and other TB people, and even including Yunnan Manchu and Mongolians as SE Asians. So, it's only natural that his MDS showed the NE Asians (Mandarin-speaking) clustering together while all the different ethnic groups (AKA "SE Asians") were scattered. |
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