The Korean head

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The Korean head
Topic Started: Apr 1 2007, 10:05 AM (11,372 Views)
ren	Dec 23 2007, 01:21 AM Post #16
Yoda Posts: 2,693 Group: Custodian Member #1 Joined: January 2, 2005	black man Dec 22 2007, 11:56 PM Can't access the page. That must be in a subforum where I've no access to. Sorry, I fixed that problem. I can't believe there are still sections you have no access to. It seems to be because you are under the "Laison" member group, from back in the days when I thought of you as a "laison" for CNA. That member group has long been neglected in terms of permissions in the admin. management control panel. I'll fix it later so you'll just be in the regular mod group.
	It has already begun.


black man	Dec 24 2007, 12:07 AM Post #17
Liaison Posts: 2,456 Group: supermod Member #48 Joined: July 11, 2005	ren Dec 22 2007, 05:09 PM www.um.u-tokyo.ac.jp/publish_db/Bulletin/no27/27img/27tableiib-01.jpg[/IMG] An additional comment concerning this table since you posted it more than once, as far as I remember: IMO it's a good example for mixing samples which aren't comparable. sample: source(s), reported averaged upper facial height in mm. - northern Ainu: Hirai and Debets, 73,2. - southern Ainu: quite a lot of Japanese researchers, 68,8. - northern Honshuites (Tohoku): Yamasaki, 69. - central Honshuites (Hokuriku): Otsuki and Ogata, 69,5. - central Honshuites (Kanto): Morita and Mitsuhashi, 71,2. - western Honshuites (Kinki): Miyamoto 1924 and Kanda 1959, 71,4. - Kyushuites: several Japanese sources, 70,1. - Yoron islanders (near southern Kyushu): Oyama, 70. - Okinawans: Hsü, 65,9. - Chukchi: Debets, 78,4. - Buriats: Debets, 77,2. - "Mongols": Debets, 78. - Liaoning Han(?) pooled with Beijing Han(?): Shima cited by "Hsii" 1948 and Black 1928, 75,7. - Hoklo Taiwanese: Asai, 70,5. - Taiwanese aborigines ("Peipo"): Xu and Yuan, 70,4. - "Koreans": Shima 1934, 73,9. - "SE Asians" pooled: Pietrusewski, 69,5. Why the highlights: - Debets is a well-known Soviet anthropologist and as such should be expected to use the Soviet standard definition for upper facial height: pronasale to subnasale. - As far as I can judge, Shima reported the values of the Liaoning Han and Black the ones of the other Han (from Beijing). What Black reported is indeed a high value but as not as high as the one of the pooled sample. If one concluded that the Liaoning Han sample was so high-faced, that would contradict older values of living samples from Shirokogorov as well as newer ones of living samples from Hao, I think. Shima's Korean sample can be indirectly compared with other Korean samples, too (see somewhere in the posts above). Since the Koreans according to Shima are quite high-faced, this sample might also reflect a measurement standard close to that of the Soviets. I'll possibly go into detail as for the Turko-Mongolian data reported by Soviet researchers somewhere else since I recently found data according to Martin's standards. What is relevant for this topic: e.g. Buriat nasal and facial heights turn out to be only moderately high, which would imply an upper facial height of below 75 according to Martin's standard. Accordingly, the data of Shima (and maybe other Japanese researchers) might be a couple of milimeters too high for Martin's standard. Then the Koreans in the table above would be on average of more intermediate facial height (around 70mm).



cydevil	Dec 31 2007, 09:40 AM Post #18
Member Posts: 16 Group: Members Member #72 Joined: October 30, 2005	I've come across this interesting news article written by a Korean professor who specializes in anaylsis of Korean faces. Generally, the article is supportive of the theory that Koreans consist of multiethnic mixture, and that 80% of Koreans are "northern" while 20% of Koreans are "southern". Here's a diagram that pretty much sums up his views on ethnic typology of Korean faces and period of migration of specific ethnic groups. The X axis is the period of time in which the ethnic group migrated into the Korean peninsula. From left to right, they are as follows: 50,000 years ago 12,000 10,000 8,000 5,000 2,000 1,000 The Y axis is the ethnic typology and their percentages within the Korean population. From top to bottom, they are as follows: 3rd southern lineage 2nd southern lineage 1st southern lineage Paleo-Siberian(Paleo-Asian) Chinese Intermediate(between Chinese and Tungusic) Tungusic Altai The map is a distribution map of northern type and southern type Koreans. Dark circles are areas where southern types are more dominant, and light circles are areas where northern types are more dominant. According to this professor, Secretary General of the UN, Ban Ki-moon, is a typical northern-Altaic type. Park Chanho, the baseball player, on the other hand, is a southern type. Link to the article(in Korean): http://article.joins.com/article/article.a...otal_id=2862004



black man	Dec 31 2007, 10:15 PM Post #19
Liaison Posts: 2,456 Group: supermod Member #48 Joined: July 11, 2005	Thanks a lot for your contribution, cydevil. According to google translator, the author of the text describes typical combinations of physiological features in northern and southern Korea (maybe also in other places since e.g. SE Asia seems to be mentioned). Could you sum up which traits were attributed to which places? ---------- Btw, off-topic: Denis Grigoriev from the O3 haplogroup forum invites you to discuss with us at http://www.molgen.org/index.php?name=Forum...=viewforum&f=16 .



cydevil	Jan 7 2008, 01:07 AM Post #20
Member Posts: 16 Group: Members Member #72 Joined: October 30, 2005	black man Dec 31 2007, 10:15 PM Thanks a lot for your contribution, cydevil. According to google translator, the author of the text describes typical combinations of physiological features in northern and southern Korea (maybe also in other places since e.g. SE Asia seems to be mentioned). Could you sum up which traits were attributed to which places? ---------- Btw, off-topic: Denis Grigoriev from the O3 haplogroup forum invites you to discuss with us at http://www.molgen.org/index.php?name=Forum...=viewforum&f=16 . The Altai/northern type(UN secretary Ban Kimoon and President-elect Lee Myungbak) - The face is vertically pointy like a sweet potato. The eyebrows are shadowy(?) and short. Eyes are small with single eyelids. The brow is wide and the forehead is vertically long. Middle of the face(not so sure what this word exactly means though.. not even in the Korean dictionary) is bulgy with a pointy nose. There isn't much beard. Southern type(Park Chanho, Lee Horyi) - Square, prominent face. Wide and short forehead, thick eyebrows, large eyes. They have thick lips and usually have double eyelids. Paleo-Asians are the first inhabitants of the Korean peninsula. They have high cheekbones and large eyes. They can be seen in the mountainous areas like Chungcheong-North province. And thank you for the invitation. I'll join up once I figure out which one is "register".



black man	Jan 7 2008, 02:05 AM Post #21
Liaison Posts: 2,456 Group: supermod Member #48 Joined: July 11, 2005	cydevil Jan 7 2008, 01:07 AM The Altai/northern type(UN secretary Ban Kimoon and President-elect Lee Myungbak) - The face is vertically pointy like a sweet potato. The eyebrows are shadowy(?) and short. Eyes are small with single eyelids. The brow is wide and the forehead is vertically long. Middle of the face(not so sure what this word exactly means though.. not even in the Korean dictionary) is bulgy with a pointy nose. There isn't much beard. Southern type(Park Chanho, Lee Horyi) - Square, prominent face. Wide and short forehead, thick eyebrows, large eyes. They have thick lips and usually have double eyelids. Paleo-Asians are the first inhabitants of the Korean peninsula. They have high cheekbones and large eyes. They can be seen in the mountainous areas like Chungcheong-North province. And thank you for the invitation. I'll join up once I figure out which one is "register". Thanks for your reply. One registers at http://www.molgen.org/index.php?name=Account&op=new_user . first row: posting name second row: e-mail third row: password fourth row: repeated password fifth row: code sixth row: repeated code Below the six rows there is a check mark box. Click on it after having completed rows one to four and six. Directly below the check mark box there is a grey strip with Cyrillic letters. Click on it for registration.



Grigoriev	Jan 7 2008, 04:13 PM Post #22
Advanced Member Posts: 71 Group: geneologist Member #170 Joined: March 23, 2007	Hello Everybody! Thank you for talk about MolGen Blackman, I've translated the main rows from that page now... If any of you have problems with registration, please tell me or Blackman - then I will register you in short time myself... (Sorry for my English) So, for non-Russian (English speaking) visitors I advise to click on the words "Read About website in English." in the center of main page. You will see next text: «Molecular Genealogy» (MolGen) is a project with the purpose to popularize genetic (molecular) genealogy and genogeography (symbiosis of anthropology and population genetics). The internet-resource "MolGen" was created in order show, with examples, the use of the possibilities of genetics in genealogy. P.S. We have to say that best viewing of MolGen website in Windows-1251 (cyrillic) encoding. Most of content in Russian, but you can use GOOGLE-Translate Our FORUM's content in both languages - Russian and English. Feel free to write in English in it! If you wish to Join MolGen website and become a member of it you should register, but click before English language flag to change some part of MolGen interface. After registration you'll able to switch (change) FORUM's interface to English. cydevil and all of you - we waiting for you at Molgen.org !!! Happy New Year and Happy Christmas!!!
	O3a3c I am descendant of Atagan mongolian tribe... O3 Y-DNA Haplogroup Project MolGen - Russian Genetic Genealogy Society www.MolGen.org


ren	Nov 28 2008, 04:30 AM Post #23
Yoda Posts: 2,693 Group: Custodian Member #1 Joined: January 2, 2005	According to this study, Koreans have narrower noses than Japanese. http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2008/11/korean-japanese-anthropometric.html
	It has already begun.


black man	Nov 28 2008, 05:30 AM Post #24
Liaison Posts: 2,456 Group: supermod Member #48 Joined: July 11, 2005	ren Nov 28 2008, 04:30 AM According to this study, Koreans have narrower noses than Japanese. http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2008/11/korean-japanese-anthropometric.html Do they mention the raw data in tables?



ren	Nov 28 2008, 05:44 AM Post #25
Yoda Posts: 2,693 Group: Custodian Member #1 Joined: January 2, 2005	Don't have access to journals anymore. Was it shown on Dienekes? Can't remember.
	It has already begun.


black man	Nov 28 2008, 05:52 AM Post #26
Liaison Posts: 2,456 Group: supermod Member #48 Joined: July 11, 2005	He posted this figure: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_ro2ijOk8JWc/SS773NiLN8I/AAAAAAAAAbM/1X4fw9GRTSc/s400/Clipboard01.png Nothing I could work with. It just confirms that the living head was measured. Edited by black man, Nov 28 2008, 05:52 AM.



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