M31 matrilineage links South, SE Asia, & Andamans

Welcome to Quetzalcoatl: anthropology forum. We hope you enjoy your visit.

You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.

Join our community!

If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Pages:
1
2

M31 matrilineage links South, SE Asia, & Andamans
Topic Started: Feb 5 2006, 05:03 PM (658 Views)
ren	Feb 5 2006, 05:03 PM Post #1
Yoda Posts: 2,703 Group: Custodian Member #1 Joined: January 2, 2005	2 Indians, Rajbanshis of West Bengal, are found to have the same M31 lineage as many Andamanese, based on full sequencing, so this isn't a mistake. The Andamanese version is now designated as M31a and the other one is designated M31b. Importance: If this does reflect the initial settlement of the regions involved, it shows that sub-clads had already developed in M, so that in theory there should be connections between various regions beyond the basal M level. That's the importance of the implications. Here is the link to the full study and the abstract: (full text and PDF are available on the top left side) http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/311/5760/470b Response to Comment on "Reconstructing the Origin of Andaman Islanders" Kumarasamy Thangaraj,1* Gyaneshwer Chaubey,1,2 Toomas Kivisild,2 Alla G. Reddy,1 Vijay Kumar Singh,1 Avinash A. Rasalkar,1 Lalji Singh1* The mitochondrial DNA coding region substitutions shared by the Andamanese and two Rajbanshi individuals suggests the early split of M31 from some continental Indian mitochondrial DNA lineages at the time depth 11/14 of the age of haplogroup M. This is still consistent with the ancient isolation of these gene pools, albeit not as early as the initial phase of human migration out of Africa. 1 Centre for Cellular and Molecular Biology, Hyderabad-500 007, India. 2 Estonian Biocenter, Riia 23, Tartu-51010, Estonia.
	It has already begun.


Ibra	Feb 9 2006, 05:24 PM Post #2
Global Mod Posts: 720 Group: Global Mod Member #33 Joined: May 23, 2005	Quote: This provides new phylogeographic evidence for an early divergence of these lineages on the Indian subcontinent and reduces the estimated time of isolation of the Andamanese They responded by saying: Quote: With very broad error limits, this finding suggests that the Andamanese M31 lineages share a common ancestor with some continental Indian mtDNA lineages at the time depth 11/14 of the age of haplogroup M (approximately 50,000 years, assuming 65,000 years for the age of M), which is still consistent with an ancient isolation of these gene pools but not as early as the initial phase of the out-of-Africa migration. Perhaps Andaman Islanders are a snapshot of what Early Upper Palaeolithic South Asians may have looked like minus the size reduction. Andaman Islanders even inherited some Ancient South Asian M types that are almost extinct (2/6000). A similar thing can be seen with R2, the sister clade of TJ which has South Asian and West Eurasian Branches, with U2 in the same situation. They had this to say as well: Quote: Taken together, the finding of M31-related lineages in continental India (2) clearly demonstrates that the absence of evidence for a clade is not the evidence of absence of that clade, even when the sample size exceeds 6000 for a population with the genetic structure of India.



ren	Feb 9 2006, 05:59 PM Post #3
Yoda Posts: 2,703 Group: Custodian Member #1 Joined: January 2, 2005	Quote: With very broad error limits, this finding suggests that the Andamanese M31 lineages share a common ancestor with some continental Indian mtDNA lineages at the time depth 11/14 of the age of haplogroup M (approximately 50,000 years, assuming 65,000 years for the age of M), which is still consistent with an ancient isolation of these gene pools but not as early as the initial phase of the out-of-Africa migration. That would have to sort of assume that M reached parts of Ocean and Asia before 50,000 years ago, or else there would be clads connecting various regions together. The Andamans was connected to the mainland during the ice age, so I don't see why they have to be remnants from very far into the past. Alternatively, if this does reflect the initial settlement of the regions involved, it shows that sub-clads had already developed in M, so that in theory there should be connections between various regions beyond the basal M level. That's the importance of the implications. In the study on the complete sequencing of Indian M, it says that there is virtually no connections between the various M's in various regions, which leads me to think that there might be say a super branch with sub-branches in SE Asia, Oceania, East Asia, South Asia.
	It has already begun.


Ibra	Feb 9 2006, 06:43 PM Post #4
Global Mod Posts: 720 Group: Global Mod Member #33 Joined: May 23, 2005	We have to take in account the other M lineages in Oceania such as Q and M22 which have time depths closer to the original M*. I don�t think a Middle Palaeolithic migration from India to the Andaman is possible, because Y lineages like H-M69 are virtually absent, while the D linage prevail on the Andaman islands but are absent from the mainland. The D lineages on the Andaman Islands is more consistent with a coastal migration theory, with low intensify back migration from the Andaman Islands as a possibility. IMP the situation is more complicated than one linear southern route. While the southern route was occurring, it is likely that there were minor expansions back and forth between various people. New Guineans, for example have relatively disjoint gene pools with Australians but still manage to share minor subclades of P.



ren	Feb 9 2006, 07:03 PM Post #5
Yoda Posts: 2,703 Group: Custodian Member #1 Joined: January 2, 2005	Quote: I don�t think a Middle Palaeolithic migration from India to the Andaman is possible, because Y lineages like H-M69 are virtually absent, while the D linage prevail on the Andaman islands but are absent from the mainland. South Asia is a big region and ambiguously defined. It is possible that as the main South Asian profile lineages expanded, it was expanding the region of "South Asia" as well. Also, the monopology of Y hg D lineage might be a result of a bottleneck/drift in a small population, though I don't see Y hg H being present the Andamans likely, but perhaps C and F. In the same way, perhaps the mtDNA M monopology on the Andamans is a result of drift or bottleneck. Quote: New Guineans, for example have relatively disjoint gene pools with Australians but still manage to share minor subclades of P. I don't know if the Y hg P in PNG is indeed P: "Despite this, some populations remain incompletely characterized and the chromosomes assigned here to the PARAGROUPS F, K and P*, might be reassigned if further typing is carried out." The presence of "P" is in the eastern coastal part, in conjunction with "Polynesian" mtDNA and Y hg's, so it might be something else all together. Australia and NG were never connected to the Asian mainland like island SE Asia, so to have P end up on the other side of PNG's remoteness would imply that there are P-derived lineages in the region, which there are none. However, there is the "trihybrid" and other theories of different waves in Oceania. That's something that I haven't looked into too much. If you find anything of academic quality, post it.
	It has already begun.


Ibra	Feb 9 2006, 07:24 PM Post #6
Global Mod Posts: 720 Group: Global Mod Member #33 Joined: May 23, 2005	Quote: I don't know if the Y hg P in PNG is indeed P: "Despite this, some populations remain incompletely characterized and the chromosomes assigned here to the PARAGROUPS F, K and P, might be reassigned if further typing is carried out." Oh sorry I didn't say. I meant the mtDNA P. As for the Y chromosomes in Oceania, they seem to be a diverse set of K and C and M Y-chromosomes. When authors use imprecise terminology like F C* K* and P* they are not tell us something that we already know, which is that the majority of humans have these root lineages. These markers can have a precise and well defined meaning only if they are looked at under high resolution; otherwise they mislead.



black man	Jan 17 2007, 11:19 AM Post #7
Liaison Posts: 2,462 Group: supermod Member #48 Joined: July 11, 2005	more: see Endicott et al. 2006 (with updated tree)



ren	Jan 20 2007, 10:20 AM Post #8
Yoda Posts: 2,703 Group: Custodian Member #1 Joined: January 2, 2005	The M31 as defined in "Phylogeny and antiquity of M macrohaplogroup inferred from complete mt DNA sequence of Indian specific lineages"(link) seems to be a different lineage from M31 as described in the above 2 studies. Does anyone know for sure? Quote: M31 lineage The present analysis defines another new lineage that emerged from the main trunk of M macrohaplogroup, with a substitution at A5319G. Keeping in succession with the numbering of lineages, we designate this lineage as M31. This branch comprises of the previously well-defined M6 lineage along with M3 and M4 lineages. The two M6 matrilines completely sequenced, harbor the characteristic group defining mutations at site T16231C, T16362C and C3539T. Our analysis deciphered another novel substitution at site A5301G in this lineage. Whole sequencing of two M3 genomes (defined by T16126C transition) demonstrated a lack of similarity in their coding region substitutions. Since both T16126C and C16311T are fast mutating sites, we propose the non-existence of M3 and M4 lineages in the M phylogeny. Three mt DNA genomes could not be differentiated in the study and were left designated as M. One of the M genomes was previously characterized as M3 lineage and differed in its coding region substitutions from the other M3, currently placed under M31 lineage. The matrilineal type possessing C16223T and T16325C as HVSI motif has been observed in relatively high frequency in Indian populations. Contrary to our expectation, full sequencing of this mt DNA (Ho69), did not exhibit the presence of G12007A mutation site that was observed in other unidentified M lineages analyzed in this study. Similar results were observed after complete sequencing of the HVSI motif type C16223T and C16251T. The newly described phylogeny based on twenty-three Indian specific mt DNA sequence information radiates from the trunk of M macrohaplogroup with limited number of branches, differing in their basal motifs with one or more coding region substitutions. The branching pattern displayed by M2, M30, M31 and their sub-lineages mirrors the expansion model, indicating that most of the lineages described on basis of their control region sequence, occupy peripheral positions of the phylogeny. M2 is estimated to be the oldest lineage with an age of 49,686+/- 10,903 years before present (YBP). Furthermore, sub-lineage M2a differs from M2 by a minimum of six coding region substitutions, reiterating the antiquity of M2. The newly defined M30 and M31 lineages differ from the root of M by six to eight substitutions and hence, display similar expansion ages of approximately 33,042+/- 7,840 YBP.
	It has already begun.


Ibra	Jan 20 2007, 10:38 AM Post #9
Global Mod Posts: 720 Group: Global Mod Member #33 Joined: May 23, 2005	There were some inconsistencies with the M31 as defined in the 2004 paper. In a later paper (The Dazzling Array of Basal Branches in the mtDNA Macrohaplogroup M from India as Inferred from Complete Genomes) some of those errors were addressed. http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/msj078v1 The latest on the South Asian M haplogroups: http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2164/7/151



ren	May 18 2007, 07:23 PM Post #10
Yoda Posts: 2,703 Group: Custodian Member #1 Joined: January 2, 2005	black man Jan 17 2007, 11:19 AM more: see Endicott et al. 2006 (with updated tree) The Chenchu are Dravidian, the Lambadi are Indo-European, the Lodha are Austroasiatic.
	It has already begun.


Jhangora	May 19 2007, 08:31 AM Post #11
What's This Posts: 978 Group: Members Member #97 Joined: March 30, 2006	ren Feb 5 2006, 05:03 PM What do the figures SW1,Ga11 and 16136,6017,etc. mean?
	The Intrade World Crisis Index 2009


Ibra	May 19 2007, 08:47 AM Post #12
Global Mod Posts: 720 Group: Global Mod Member #33 Joined: May 23, 2005	It means the name of the sample. As an example GA9 = Great Andaman Islander #9. The list of numbers are mutations that define a particular haplogroup. For example 200, 1524...16519 define M31a.



ren	May 20 2007, 12:44 AM Post #13
Yoda Posts: 2,703 Group: Custodian Member #1 Joined: January 2, 2005	Since only one case of each for the Chenchu and Lambadi in regards to M31, it's possible this lineage from brought from SE Asia "recently" by Austro-Asiatic tribes. The Andamans is closer to Burma, after all.
	It has already begun.


Ibra	May 22 2007, 09:17 AM Post #14
Global Mod Posts: 720 Group: Global Mod Member #33 Joined: May 23, 2005	ren May 20 2007, 12:44 AM Since only one case of each for the Chenchu and Lambadi in regards to M31, it's possible this lineage from brought from SE Asia "recently" by Austro-Asiatic tribes. The Andamans is closer to Burma, after all. Guess that's feasible; whats needed is a complete sequencing of mtDNA types in Burma to see if M31 or a haplogroup like it resides there.



ren	May 22 2007, 10:37 PM Post #15
Yoda Posts: 2,703 Group: Custodian Member #1 Joined: January 2, 2005	It is possible that it was always there in the region but never fully sequenced and misclassified based on HV-II region motifs' closest matches. This has happened with the Chinese Linzi sample, and it seems the recent "discovery" of a lot of Thais with M21 is also of this problem, and the "discovery" of M31 in South Asian tribals.
	It has already begun.


1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)


Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Population Genetics · Next Topic »

Pages:
1
2