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| Why Japanese have bad teeth... | |
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| Topic Started: Oct 19 2005, 10:16 PM (675 Views) | |
| ren | Oct 19 2005, 10:16 PM Post #1 |
Yoda
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[size=4]The problem is that while the jaw has decreased in size for Japanese women over the past 2,000 years (I'll try to update with an actual study I saw), the teeth have remained the same size[/size], and it's particularly a problem for the so called "Mongoloids" because they have wisdom teeth almost always. This leads to overcrowding of teeth and thus the stereotypical crooked teeth that is for Japanese women the badge of shame for all Asians. Well, the Yayoi seems to come from mainly Korea, and replaced the Jomon in Japan within the last 2,000 years. Within that time period, there seems to have been some noticeable pedamorphic tendencies in Japanese females. Compared to Korean females, Japanese females are more child-like, with weaker jaws. From this type of jaw: (Mongolian women)  To this type of jaw: (Japanese women)  The causes of jaw reduction seems to be aprt of the general gracilization trend in post ice age humans, and there could be a number of causes, such as sexual selection, adapting to eat mush from agricultural products instead of fiberous and meaty stuff of hunter-gatherers, getting smaller for the warmer weather. The problem is particularly a problem for Japanese women because they are very pedamorphic, going from big-jawed Mongolian types to lil' girl types in a matter of millenia. Below are qoutes from an article address this problem: "Evolving to Eat Mush": How Meat Changed Our Bodies http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/20...human_diet.html "Our taste for meat has also led us into some trouble熔ur teeth are too big for our downsized jaws and most of us need dental work." ... "Tool-use no doubt helped early humans in butchering their dinners. But there is evidence that the advance to cooking and using knives and forks is leading to crooked teeth and facial dwarfing in humans. Today it's relatively rare for someone to have perfectly straight teeth (without having been to the orthodontist). Our wisdom teeth don't have room to fit in the jaw and sometimes don't form at all, and the propensity to develop gum disease is on the increase. "Virtually any mammalian jaw in the wild that you look at will be a perfect occlusion預 very nice Hollywood-style dentition," said Peter Lucas, the author of Dental Functional Morphology and a visiting professor at George Washington University in Washington, D.C. "But when it comes to humans, the ideal occlusion [the way teeth fit together] is virtually never seen. It's really the only body part that regularly needs attention and surgery." Lucas argues that the mechanical process of chewing, combined with the physical properties of foods in the diet, will drive tooth, jaw, and body size, particularly in human evolution. Essentially, by cooking our food, thereby making it softer, we no longer need teeth big enough to chow down on really tough particles. By using knives and forks to cut food into smaller pieces, we no longer need a large enough jaw to cram in big hunks of food. "We're evolving to eat mush," said Bernard Wood, a paleoanthropologist at George Washington University." |
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| black man | Oct 20 2005, 12:23 AM Post #2 |
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My impression is that Mongols have, in contrast to many other East Asians, an orthognathic jaw with rather small teeth. I've always found that exotic. Although the entire facial structure seems to be different, Mongols' front teeth resemble those of orthognathic people in Sweden, Denmark, northern Germany etc. They even appear to lack shovel shape. Also, the Mongolian mouth is accordingly smaller than that of people with bigger teeth. Japanese:  Mongols:  IMO e.g. Australian aborigines and Papuas are a much better examples for populations with big teeth (than Mongols are). Papua:  --------- In other words: I tend to believe that the Mongols' teeth's size is reduced, but not the size of their jaw. I.e. the East Asian common biological ancestor of Mongols and Japanese had both relatively big teeth and a broader jaw, but none of these two peoples. |
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| JCA | Oct 26 2009, 10:28 PM Post #3 |
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Hamasaki Ayumi had notoriously bad teeth ("bad" from an American perspective, of course) before she got orthodontic treatment a few years ago. Presented on the page to which I have linked below are some still shots of Ayumi acting in a television drama (未成年 Miseinen "Underage," literally "not.yet-become(.an.adult)-year") that first aired starting in October 1995, around the time of Ayumi's seventeenth birthday, so she must have been sixteen or younger during filming. http://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/v_ayu_love/18947571.html The attached images have been taken from ツインズ教師 (Tsuinzu Kyoushi), a television drama that has aired beginning in April 1993, only six months after Ayumi's fourteenth birthday. In this episode, Ayumi (as the character "Tachibana Momo") cries while telling her (female) friend how much she likes her ("but not in a lezzy way," or so she says). The last image shows Momo's reaction when one of the "Teacher Twins" has told her that her friend, Masumi, has stabbed a boy. It is humorous how many Koreans and other stupid people claim that Hamasaki Ayumi's facial features are the results of plastic surgery without realizing that she has been a child actress and model, and that her appearance as a child is therefore very well documented. |
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| ren | Oct 27 2009, 05:08 AM Post #4 |
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Yoda
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She looks very average to me. I don't understand your fascination with her. Japanese females have never impressed me. Girls in Shanghai who look like Ayumi would be considered as plain. Although I've seen some really good-looking Japanese males. 5 out of ten of the Japanese travellers in China are bettern looking than 90 out of 100 Chinese guys. |
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| JCA | Oct 28 2009, 06:56 PM Post #5 |
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As I have stated already, I am not fascinated with Ayumi so much as I am fascinated with the apparently insatiable need of many Koreans and others to slander her with unsubstantiated accusations of plastic surgery.
I doubt that Ayumi would be considered as "plain" in Shanghai (or anywhere else in the world, for that matter). If I am not mistaken, she recently has been hired to be the model for lingerie manufacturer Wacoal's line of push-up bras in China:     If Chinese people think Ayumi looks "plain," then why is she so enormously popular in Taiwan, Hong Kong, etc.?
I can agree with this part. Japanese men tend to be curiously attractive, but I would not say that Japanese women tend to be especially unattractive; I just think that the percentage of Japanese guys who I would judge to be "handsome" or "extremely handsome" is much higher than the percentage of males of other ethnic groups who I would consider to be so, whereas I think that Japanese females are closer to average in this respect. |
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| ren | Oct 29 2009, 02:00 AM Post #6 |
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Yoda
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These are heavily air-brushed photos, and even besides that, there's nothing in her looks that's especially spectacular. Please don't think I'm making it up when I say that she would be considered plain by Shanghai standards. Post about her in Chinese forums and see their response. As for her "popularity" in the Chinese world, I really don't see it. Some companies may take her as a spokesman, but it's because she represents Japanese pop culture to some extent, J-Pop being rather influential in Asia. The standard traditional beauty in the Sinosphere is the sunflower seed-shaped face (gua zi er lian) that's wide around the eyed and narrows quickly down into the chin. Anyone outside of this confine is out of syn.  BUT even by neo-aesthetic standards, Ayumi is plain. I see many girls like this below everyday on the street, and I think they are way way hotter than Ayumi.   As for Japanese females. a lot of them have bad teeth. When they are ugly, they are really ugly. |
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| JCA | Oct 30 2009, 08:56 PM Post #7 |
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I first saw Ayumi on television at the time of this performance of her 11th single, "appears," which was released on November 10, 1999, about five weeks after Ayumi's 21st birthday. The cover of this single and that of her second album from the Avex record label, "LOVEppears," which was released simultaneously, became a topic of much public discussion for their featuring Ayumi's upper body nude (except for some well-placed hair) and painted from head to hips with white (for the album) or black (for the single) makeup. 「appears」 作詞： 浜崎あゆみ Lyrics: Hamasaki Ayumi 作曲： 菊池一仁 Music: Kikuchi Kazuhito 恋人達はとても幸せそうに手をつないで歩いているからね koibitotachi wa totemo shiawasesou ni te o tsunaide aruite iru kara ne まるで全てのことが上手くいってるかのように見えるよね marude subete no koto ga umaku itte'ru ka no you ni mieru yo ne 真実はふたりしか知らない hontou wa futari shika shiranai Because the lovers are walking while holding each other's hand in such a happy manner [They] look just as if everything is going well [for them], don't [they]? Only the two [of them] know the truth 初めての電話は受話器を持つ手が震えていた hajimete no denwa wa juwaki o motsu te ga furuete ita 2回目の電話はルスデンにメッセージが残っていた nikaime no denwa wa rusuden ni messeeji ga nokotte ita 7回目の電話で今から会おうよって nanakaime no denwa de ima kara aou yo tte そんなふつうの毎日の中始まった sonna futsuu no mainichi no naka hajimatta During the first phone call, the hand that held the receiver was trembling As for the second phone call, a message was left on the answering machine In the seventh phone call, [that person] said "let's get together now" [It] began in the midst of such ordinary days 恋人達はとても幸せそうに手をつないで歩いているからね koibitotachi wa totemo shiawasesou ni te o tsunaide aruite iru kara ne まるで全てのことが上手くいってるかのように見えるよね marude subete no koto ga umaku itte'ru ka no you ni mieru yo ne 真実はふたりしか知らない hontou wa futari shika shiranai Because the lovers are walking while holding each other's hand in such a happy manner [They] look just as if everything is going well [for them], don't [they]? Only the two [of them] know the truth １０回目の電話でふたり遠くへ出かけたよね juukaime no denwa de futari tooku e dekaketa yo ne 手をつないで歩こうとする私に照れていたよね te o tsunaide arukou to suru watashi ni terete ita yo ne それから何度目かの夜を飛びこえて sore kara nandome ka no yoru o tobikoete 帰りの車の中でキスをしたよね kaeri no kuruma no naka de kisu o shita yo ne On the occasion of the tenth phone call, the two went out to a distant place, didn't [they]? [You] were blushing at me for trying to hold hands while walking After that, [we] flew across however many nights (Note: nandome ka no yoru literally should mean "the whatever-eth night," i.e. whichever night in an ordered set of nights that that particular night happened to be, but I cannot translate this to English in a satisfactory manner) And kissed in the car on the way home, didn't [we]? 白く輝く雪がとても大好きで それでも去年は離れていたよ shiroku kagayaku yuki ga totemo daisuki de soredemo kyonen wa hanarete ita yo 今年の冬は ふたりして見れるかな 過ごせるかな kotoshi no fuyu wa futari shite mireru kana sugoseru kana 言えるかな 言えなかったメリークリスマスを ieru kana ienakatta merii kurisumasu o [We] like the sparkling white snow so much, and yet, even so, [we] were apart last year This winter, I wonder if the two [of us] will be able to see [it] together, pass [the time] together I wonder if [I ] will be able to say [it], the "merry Christmas" that [I ] have not been able to say 薬指に光った指輪を一体何度位はずそうとした？ 私達 kusuriyubi ni hikatta yubiwa o ittai nando kurai hazusou to shita? watashitachi How many times have [we] tried to take off the ring[s ] that glitter on [our] ring finger[s ]? [The two of] us 恋人達はとても幸せそうに手をつないで歩いているからね koibitotachi wa totemo shiawasesou ni te o tsunaide aruite iru kara ne まるで全てが そうまるで何もかも marude subete ga sou marude nanimokamo 全てのことが上手くいっているかのように見えるよね subete no koto ga umaku itte iru ka no you ni mieru yo ne 真実のところなんて誰にもわからない hontou no tokoro nante dare ni mo wakaranai Because the lovers are walking while holding each other's hand in such a happy manner [They] look just as if everything, yes, Just as if anything and everything is going well, don't [they]? The true situation, whatever that might be, is not understood by anyone Ayumi may deserve to be accused of wearing gaudy clothing and excessive makeup, singing in a whiny voice, failing to take proper care of her health (e.g. by not retiring from the J-pop scene despite the fact that she has become half deaf), or writing lyrics that are confusingly elliptical, but she has not had any obvious plastic surgery. In the course of her acting career, Ayumi also has played one of the lead roles in the 1995 Japanese film, 「渚のシンドバッド」 nagisa no sindobaddo ("Sindbad of the Seashore"). There is a cute scene in this film in which she kicks sand all over a pair of boys at the beach while throwing a tantrum, but I can't find it on YouTube anymore. Be forewarned that this movie is sort of "gay," so don't watch it for the sake of getting another glimpse of Hamasaki Ayumi in the years before she became a diva unless you are not offended by the idea of male homosexuality. |
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| JCA | Nov 1 2009, 01:50 AM Post #8 |
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Returning to the topic of this thread, teeth that we might call "bad" in English would not necessarily be considered detrimental to a person's appearance (especially that of a young woman) in Japan. I can't count the number of times I have heard a Japanese person describe a snaggletoothed young woman with the words 「八重歯が可愛い」 yaeba ga kawaii, literally "(her) eight/multi-layered teeth are cute." 八重 yae "eight layers" > "multiple layers; many layers" is the same morpheme that appears in such words as 八重桜 yaezakura (the kind of cherry tree that produces flowers with multi-layered petals). Anyway, I have attached a bonus pic of Hamasaki Ayumi acting in Twins Kyoushi that shows her upper incisors. She looks comically adorable in this one.
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| Starbuck | Today, 12:02 AM Post #9 |
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That particular woman exhibits a good symmetry here. At a very basic level, and for reasons I cannot articulate very well, I do find this "goose egg" shape agreeable to my own tastes, yes. However, my attraction to it applies only if this shape in a woman is natural and not known to be surgically recreated. |
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