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| I like it when Atheists are honest. | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Sep 4 2007, 06:20 AM (758 Views) | |
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Sep 5 2007, 11:48 AM Post #21 |
Skulltula
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I can see where he would be coming from, his attitude reminded me of that song. Humans are great, but on the global scale we do more bad than good, it seems. The environment is *censored*, ecosystems have been raped, we've endangered many species. All this because we don't restrain ourselves and we over-consume. |
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| Trevuar25 | Sep 5 2007, 12:36 PM Post #22 |
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Octorok
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Cry me a river, and please then drown any environmentalists in said river. making the world a better, cleaner place. |
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Sep 5 2007, 12:49 PM Post #23 |
Skulltula
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Even if you don't agree with environmentalism, why object to taking care of the Earth? Anyone with any intelligence can see we have finite resources, so why waste them? We can see we have limited space, why use it? Science tells us trees clean our air, why cut them down en-masse when we pollute more and more? It's all about taking care of our home. I assume you vacuum your house, clean your dishes, and try to make sure you home is in tip-top shape, why not care that much about the Earth? |
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| Mr. Storm | Sep 5 2007, 04:28 PM Post #24 |
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Child of Dust
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What if I don't care about what happens to the Earth after I die? |
| "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use." - Galileo Galilei | |
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Sep 5 2007, 05:42 PM Post #25 |
Skulltula
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Then you're a selfish bastard. |
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| Mr. Storm | Sep 5 2007, 05:44 PM Post #26 |
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Child of Dust
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What's so bad about selfishness? |
| "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use." - Galileo Galilei | |
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| Fullmetal | Sep 5 2007, 06:42 PM Post #27 |
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Moblin
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Our whole society is based around humans being greedy and selfish. |
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| Mr. Storm | Sep 5 2007, 06:45 PM Post #28 |
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Child of Dust
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Exactly. If I wanted to be unselfish and a goody-twoshoes, I'd go join a kibbutz. |
| "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use." - Galileo Galilei | |
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Sep 5 2007, 08:15 PM Post #29 |
Skulltula
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Eh, that's why I'm a socialist. At the very least we should consider others. Propaghandi says it very simply, "and yes, I recognize the irony that the very system I oppose affords me the luxury of biting the hand that feeds. But that's exactly why priviledged fucks like me should feel obliged to whine and kick and scream- until everyone has everything they need." It shouldn't be based around selfishness. Constant consumption is not a good goal in life, especially when there's people who can't even get food. You can argue that the system needs the poor, but that's because we've decided we need to have it so much better. At the very least it's not a Christian thing to do, and when many in Western nations consider themselves Christians, it's something they need to step back and examine. |
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| Mr. Storm | Sep 5 2007, 08:26 PM Post #30 |
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Child of Dust
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"The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?" - Jeremiah The Christian Bible teaches that man is despicable, and thus, many Christians conclude, we must have systems that capitalize on that. I assume if we lived in a perfect world, socialism would be supported by Christians. Alas, we don't live in one. |
| "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use." - Galileo Galilei | |
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Sep 5 2007, 09:05 PM Post #31 |
Skulltula
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What about all that stuff Jesus taught about helping others? |
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| Panther III | Sep 5 2007, 09:06 PM Post #32 |
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Triforce of Power
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It is okay we take out other life forms on earth. It is part of natural selection/survival of the fittest. Should we exterminate certain species of animals because they are superior to other and beat them to food? That makes no sense, however, extreme left-ests seem to also make distinctions between humans and other species by branding them responsible for the extinction of animal species. This makes you sound incredibly hypocritical NS when you claim that no species is better than another because thats exactly what you are doing (yet in reverse (IE humans should be destroyed for causing species to become extinct)). The process of extinction has gone on for millions of years and will continue to do so until life in the universe ends. And for the eventual "rebuttal" argument that what humans do is not natural, that is not true. Are we not natural for using our intelligence to ease our standard of living? Would a dolphin give a flying *censored* about the existence of humanity if they had the intelligence to wipe us out? Hell no. Technically everything in the universe is natural. Naturally of course. Animals are far below humans IMO of course I believe each species feels that way about their own kind. And to state my opinion on evolution, I think that evolution is the the answer to how rather than why. Oh and to AT. What about all the stuff Muhammad said about helping others. What about all the stuff Ghandi said about helping others. What about all the stuff Hitler said about helping others. What about all the stuff Naoko said about helping others. Everyone says stuff about helping others. But that doesn't mean it will happen. And according to Christianity if you ever take the time to actually read a verse or two, humans are naturally sinners. So obviously people don't help others 24/7. |
| "Would you like to play... Money Making Game?!" | |
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Sep 5 2007, 09:18 PM Post #33 |
Skulltula
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Natural selection should have limits. Usually there's checks and balances in nature. Foxes start to eat too many rabbits? Rabbits population is lowered. There's less food for foxes. Foxes start to die. Since there's less foxes eating rabbits, rabbits are free to to reproduce more. Since there is now more food, less foxes die of starvation. More foxes reproduce, creating a cycle. We have eliminated most those checks and balances, and just because of that doesn't mean we should be pigs. Moderation is important. Less diversity is bad for the planet, and try to find me an educated person who would disagree with that. |
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| Panther III | Sep 5 2007, 09:29 PM Post #34 |
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Triforce of Power
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It doesn't matter if it should have limits. It doesn't have limits. As NS illustrated earlier, our intelligence doesn't mean we are superior to any other species. Therefore the same rules should apply. And what you stated was not natural selection. That was overpopulation/underpopulation.
In other words, lets say there are two species of birds feeding on the same species of worm. Bird Species 1 starts to develop better hunting 'techniques' while Bird Species 2 stays traditional. Bird S1 eats more worms and grows in population while Bird S2 declines until extinction. Should we penalize Bird S1's because they have adapted? As a believer of evolution I'd assume you would. |
| "Would you like to play... Money Making Game?!" | |
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Sep 5 2007, 09:54 PM Post #35 |
Skulltula
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When we've gone beyond the limits thanks to our technology and intellect, we have a duty to not *censored* up the world. Just because America is a stronger nation doesn't mean they have the right to nuke the *censored* out of Brazil, does it? |
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| Mr. Storm | Sep 5 2007, 10:29 PM Post #36 |
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Child of Dust
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AT, we have a competition between morals and rights. Yes, if we went and accepted the terms given to us, the US has the right to bomb the **** out of whoever we want because we're the strongest. Do we? No, because moral law says that'd be wrong. So quite clearly, there's a conflict between natural law and moral law, which is what makes humans superior to the animals. Animals live in an amoral society, humans do not. Quite clearly, if you want to do the things that you say we should do, we have to accept some kind of a higher standard above naturalistic means. That is against Atheistic philosophy, which says everything can be determined through sheer logic and ration, and that's why I am scared by Atheistic philosophy being applied in our culture. One day, we might very well see the US bomb the crap out of a nation because they waste resources if things continue to go the way they are going. |
| "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use." - Galileo Galilei | |
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Sep 5 2007, 11:15 PM Post #37 |
Skulltula
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No, because logic says we should not rape the environment. Why? Athiest is cold, hard logic you say, right? Well look at the numbers concerning stuff related to global warming, they see perhaps cutting rain forest which clean the air is bad. Perhaps clear cutting or burning forests down isn't such a good idea, eh? Look at the numbers, and just by going by the numbers you get the feeling that perhaps environmentalism is good. I'm more worried about the idea that we were given dominion over the animals and land, so we do whatever the hell we want with no worries. |
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| Mr. Storm | Sep 6 2007, 12:12 AM Post #38 |
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Child of Dust
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*points to a bunch of random people who don't believe GW* That's kind of besides the point though. Bombing people has little or nothing to do with environmentalism, unless your leveling the rainforest while your doing it. XD |
| "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use." - Galileo Galilei | |
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| Panther III | Sep 6 2007, 05:27 AM Post #39 |
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Triforce of Power
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Yes but thats more Brazil than America wouldn't you say? Telling Brazil what (not) to do would also be wrong, wouldn't you say AT? |
| "Would you like to play... Money Making Game?!" | |
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Sep 6 2007, 07:17 AM Post #40 |
Skulltula
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Actually it has a lot to do with environmentalism. All the debris that's burning causes greenhouse gases to go into the air. A car gets caught of fire in a bombing, do you think that stuff is safe to burn?
We tell them what to do a lot as it is, however we give these types of countries shit advice. We tell them to pay their debt, which keeps growing and growing thanks to interest. We tell them to focus on growing cash crops. The thing about cash crops is, they're useless. Cash crops are good for getting cash. Problem is the people in these countries don't get the cash. Problem is when you have several neighboring countries being told to grow the same cash crops, the prices for these go down in competition making the debt harder to pay off. Problem is the people need food and cash crops are exported. So how about instead of forcing Brazilians to cut down rainforest to make room for what little food they grow, we think of other ways of cutting their debt so they can use what space they have already for agriculture can be used for food. Besides, the problem with them cutting the rainforest is the land that's used for grazing is poorly used and usually within an year or two is unusable. The soil in the rainforest is different than most soil, and despite what it looks like, is not very fertile. Basically, only certain plants can survive in the rainforest (I think it has an unusually high level of nitrogen, not 100% sure on that). So it's not like they can exactly buy more seed every year and make the grass grow, it won't grow. Only grass that has grown there with grow, same with just about every tree there. It's horrible grazing and farming land. Plus you're taking away the homes of many people who have lived there for a long time in harmony with the environment there. |
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