Welcome to Hyrule Forums. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!

We are also on Steam as Hyrule Community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
I like it when Atheists are honest.
Topic Started: Sep 4 2007, 06:20 AM (758 Views)
American Transvestite
No Avatar
Skulltula
Quote:
 
I've got nothing to say, I've got nothing to do,
All of my neurons are functioning smoothly,
Yet still I'm a cyborg just like you,

I am one big myoma that thinks, my planet supports only me,
I've got this one big problem: will I live forever?
I've got just a short time to see,

Modern man, evolutionary betrayer,
Modern man, ecosystem destroyer,
Modern man, destroy yourself in shame,
Modern man, pathetic example of earths organic heritage,

When I look back and think, when I ponder and ask myself why?
I see my ancestor spend with careless abandon,
Assuming eternal supply,

Modern man, evolutionary betrayer,
Modern man, ecosystem destroyer,
Modern man, destroy yourself in shame,
Modern man, pathetic example of earths organic heritage,
Just a sample of carbon-based wastage,
Just a *censored* tragic epic of you and I

I can see where he would be coming from, his attitude reminded me of that song. Humans are great, but on the global scale we do more bad than good, it seems. The environment is *censored*, ecosystems have been raped, we've endangered many species. All this because we don't restrain ourselves and we over-consume.
Posted Image %mh%-173%mh%
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Trevuar25
Member Avatar
Octorok
Cry me a river, and please then drown any environmentalists in said river. making the world a better, cleaner place.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
American Transvestite
No Avatar
Skulltula
Even if you don't agree with environmentalism, why object to taking care of the Earth? Anyone with any intelligence can see we have finite resources, so why waste them? We can see we have limited space, why use it? Science tells us trees clean our air, why cut them down en-masse when we pollute more and more? It's all about taking care of our home. I assume you vacuum your house, clean your dishes, and try to make sure you home is in tip-top shape, why not care that much about the Earth?
Posted Image %mh%-173%mh%
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mr. Storm
Member Avatar
Child of Dust
What if I don't care about what happens to the Earth after I die?
"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use." - Galileo Galilei
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
American Transvestite
No Avatar
Skulltula
Then you're a selfish bastard.
Posted Image %mh%-173%mh%
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mr. Storm
Member Avatar
Child of Dust
American Transvestite
Sep 5 2007, 06:42 PM
Then you're a selfish bastard.

What's so bad about selfishness?
"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use." - Galileo Galilei
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Fullmetal
Member Avatar
Moblin
Our whole society is based around humans being greedy and selfish.
Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mr. Storm
Member Avatar
Child of Dust
Exactly.

If I wanted to be unselfish and a goody-twoshoes, I'd go join a kibbutz.
"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use." - Galileo Galilei
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
American Transvestite
No Avatar
Skulltula
Fullmetal
Sep 5 2007, 07:42 PM
Our whole society is based around humans being greedy and selfish.

Eh, that's why I'm a socialist. At the very least we should consider others. Propaghandi says it very simply, "and yes, I recognize the irony that the very system I oppose affords me the luxury of biting the hand that feeds. But that's exactly why priviledged fucks like me should feel obliged to whine and kick and scream- until everyone has everything they need."

It shouldn't be based around selfishness. Constant consumption is not a good goal in life, especially when there's people who can't even get food. You can argue that the system needs the poor, but that's because we've decided we need to have it so much better. At the very least it's not a Christian thing to do, and when many in Western nations consider themselves Christians, it's something they need to step back and examine.
Posted Image %mh%-173%mh%
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mr. Storm
Member Avatar
Child of Dust
"The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?" - Jeremiah

The Christian Bible teaches that man is despicable, and thus, many Christians conclude, we must have systems that capitalize on that.

I assume if we lived in a perfect world, socialism would be supported by Christians. Alas, we don't live in one.
"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use." - Galileo Galilei
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
American Transvestite
No Avatar
Skulltula
What about all that stuff Jesus taught about helping others?
Posted Image %mh%-173%mh%
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Panther III
Member Avatar
Triforce of Power
Negasquid
Sep 4 2007, 10:41 PM
I figure humans are on par with all other lifeforms and should not treat them as though we are superior.  Even if we are 'smarter' it is no reason to flew our muscles and kill everything.  We are not better, no matter what your chosen deity says.  If anything, I think our existence should be erased from the planet, we definitely cause a lot more harm than any other animal here.

Onto other subjects brought up.

Last time i went to Redding someone walked up to me and my brother when we were in the dollar store.  He asked if we had found jesus christ.  We said no.  He promptly told us we were going to hell unless we embrace jesus christ.  That sounds pretty *censored* elitist to me, and I don't even believe in that stuff.  So my brother and I went on the offensive.  Soon we got him defending his deities existence with there all to common phrase 'gods word'.  Wow.  Imaginary friends can tell you they exist, right?  Doesn't mean they do.  If thats offensive I'm sorry, its just an example.  When that guy was trying to convert us my brother brought up evolution.  Wanna know the first thing he said in response?  'How can you think something as great as humans could be related to something so privative.  God placed us on this planet to rule all other lifeforms.'  I wanted to punch that guy in the face.  That isn't all to rare either to what I've found.  When my cousin used to live with us he tried to convert us a few times and couldn't go one time without his human superiority complex.  When you think about it, religion has done a fair share in the destruction of the environment.  The human superiority complex brought up in that along with telling us to multiply has really allowed us to do a big number of what is now irreversible damage to damn near everything.  And thats my big beef with christianity (adding the elitism if you forgot about it). 

Haven't done a religion rant in a while...
I did go off-track, sorry (but everyone else did aswell).

One more thing:
I have never seen an atheist one upped by a chrisitan.  Not saying it isn't possible though, this is just to the second post.

It is okay we take out other life forms on earth. It is part of natural selection/survival of the fittest. Should we exterminate certain species of animals because they are superior to other and beat them to food?

That makes no sense, however, extreme left-ests seem to also make distinctions between humans and other species by branding them responsible for the extinction of animal species. This makes you sound incredibly hypocritical NS when you claim that no species is better than another because thats exactly what you are doing (yet in reverse (IE humans should be destroyed for causing species to become extinct)). The process of extinction has gone on for millions of years and will continue to do so until life in the universe ends.

And for the eventual "rebuttal" argument that what humans do is not natural, that is not true. Are we not natural for using our intelligence to ease our standard of living? Would a dolphin give a flying *censored* about the existence of humanity if they had the intelligence to wipe us out? Hell no. Technically everything in the universe is natural. Naturally of course.

Animals are far below humans IMO of course I believe each species feels that way about their own kind.

And to state my opinion on evolution, I think that evolution is the the answer to how rather than why.

Oh and to AT.

What about all the stuff Muhammad said about helping others.
What about all the stuff Ghandi said about helping others.
What about all the stuff Hitler said about helping others.
What about all the stuff Naoko said about helping others.


Everyone says stuff about helping others. But that doesn't mean it will happen.

And according to Christianity if you ever take the time to actually read a verse or two, humans are naturally sinners. So obviously people don't help others 24/7.

"Would you like to play... Money Making Game?!"
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
American Transvestite
No Avatar
Skulltula
Panther III
Sep 5 2007, 10:06 PM
It is okay we take out other life forms on earth. It is part of natural selection/survival of the fittest.

Natural selection should have limits. Usually there's checks and balances in nature. Foxes start to eat too many rabbits? Rabbits population is lowered. There's less food for foxes. Foxes start to die. Since there's less foxes eating rabbits, rabbits are free to to reproduce more. Since there is now more food, less foxes die of starvation. More foxes reproduce, creating a cycle. We have eliminated most those checks and balances, and just because of that doesn't mean we should be pigs. Moderation is important. Less diversity is bad for the planet, and try to find me an educated person who would disagree with that.
Posted Image %mh%-173%mh%
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Panther III
Member Avatar
Triforce of Power
American Transvestite
Sep 5 2007, 09:18 PM
Panther III
Sep 5 2007, 10:06 PM
It is okay we take out other life forms on earth. It is part of natural selection/survival of the fittest.

Natural selection should have limits. Usually there's checks and balances in nature. Foxes start to eat too many rabbits? Rabbits population is lowered. There's less food for foxes. Foxes start to die. Since there's less foxes eating rabbits, rabbits are free to to reproduce more. Since there is now more food, less foxes die of starvation. More foxes reproduce, creating a cycle. We have eliminated most those checks and balances, and just because of that doesn't mean we should be pigs. Moderation is important. Less diversity is bad for the planet, and try to find me an educated person who would disagree with that.

It doesn't matter if it should have limits. It doesn't have limits.

As NS illustrated earlier, our intelligence doesn't mean we are superior to any other species. Therefore the same rules should apply.

And what you stated was not natural selection. That was overpopulation/underpopulation.

Quote:
 
Natural selection is the process by which favorable traits that are heritable become more common in successive generations of a population of reproducing organisms, and unfavorable traits that are heritable become less common. Natural selection acts on the phenotype, or the observable characteristics of an organism, such that individuals with favorable phenotypes are more likely to survive and reproduce than those with less favorable phenotypes. If these phenotypes have a genetic basis, then the genotype associated with the favorable phenotype will increase in frequency in the next generation. Over time, this process can result in adaptations that specialize organisms for particular ecological niches and may eventually result in the emergence of new species.


In other words, lets say there are two species of birds feeding on the same species of worm. Bird Species 1 starts to develop better hunting 'techniques' while Bird Species 2 stays traditional. Bird S1 eats more worms and grows in population while Bird S2 declines until extinction.

Should we penalize Bird S1's because they have adapted? As a believer of evolution I'd assume you would.
"Would you like to play... Money Making Game?!"
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
American Transvestite
No Avatar
Skulltula
When we've gone beyond the limits thanks to our technology and intellect, we have a duty to not *censored* up the world. Just because America is a stronger nation doesn't mean they have the right to nuke the *censored* out of Brazil, does it?
Posted Image %mh%-173%mh%
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mr. Storm
Member Avatar
Child of Dust
AT, we have a competition between morals and rights.

Yes, if we went and accepted the terms given to us, the US has the right to bomb the **** out of whoever we want because we're the strongest.

Do we? No, because moral law says that'd be wrong.


So quite clearly, there's a conflict between natural law and moral law, which is what makes humans superior to the animals. Animals live in an amoral society, humans do not.

Quite clearly, if you want to do the things that you say we should do, we have to accept some kind of a higher standard above naturalistic means. That is against Atheistic philosophy, which says everything can be determined through sheer logic and ration, and that's why I am scared by Atheistic philosophy being applied in our culture.

One day, we might very well see the US bomb the crap out of a nation because they waste resources if things continue to go the way they are going.
"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use." - Galileo Galilei
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
American Transvestite
No Avatar
Skulltula
No, because logic says we should not rape the environment. Why? Athiest is cold, hard logic you say, right? Well look at the numbers concerning stuff related to global warming, they see perhaps cutting rain forest which clean the air is bad. Perhaps clear cutting or burning forests down isn't such a good idea, eh? Look at the numbers, and just by going by the numbers you get the feeling that perhaps environmentalism is good. I'm more worried about the idea that we were given dominion over the animals and land, so we do whatever the hell we want with no worries.
Posted Image %mh%-173%mh%
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mr. Storm
Member Avatar
Child of Dust
*points to a bunch of random people who don't believe GW*

That's kind of besides the point though. Bombing people has little or nothing to do with environmentalism, unless your leveling the rainforest while your doing it. XD
"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use." - Galileo Galilei
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Panther III
Member Avatar
Triforce of Power
American Transvestite
Sep 5 2007, 11:15 PM
No, because logic says we should not rape the environment. Why? Athiest is cold, hard logic you say, right? Well look at the numbers concerning stuff related to global warming, they see perhaps cutting rain forest which clean the air is bad. Perhaps clear cutting or burning forests down isn't such a good idea, eh? Look at the numbers, and just by going by the numbers you get the feeling that perhaps environmentalism is good. I'm more worried about the idea that we were given dominion over the animals and land, so we do whatever the hell we want with no worries.

Yes but thats more Brazil than America wouldn't you say?

Telling Brazil what (not) to do would also be wrong, wouldn't you say AT?
"Would you like to play... Money Making Game?!"
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
American Transvestite
No Avatar
Skulltula
Mr. Storm
Sep 6 2007, 01:12 AM
Bombing people has little or nothing to do with environmentalism, unless your leveling the rainforest while your doing it. XD

Actually it has a lot to do with environmentalism. All the debris that's burning causes greenhouse gases to go into the air. A car gets caught of fire in a bombing, do you think that stuff is safe to burn?

Quote:
 
Telling Brazil what (not) to do would also be wrong, wouldn't you say AT?


We tell them what to do a lot as it is, however we give these types of countries shit advice. We tell them to pay their debt, which keeps growing and growing thanks to interest. We tell them to focus on growing cash crops. The thing about cash crops is, they're useless. Cash crops are good for getting cash. Problem is the people in these countries don't get the cash. Problem is when you have several neighboring countries being told to grow the same cash crops, the prices for these go down in competition making the debt harder to pay off. Problem is the people need food and cash crops are exported. So how about instead of forcing Brazilians to cut down rainforest to make room for what little food they grow, we think of other ways of cutting their debt so they can use what space they have already for agriculture can be used for food. Besides, the problem with them cutting the rainforest is the land that's used for grazing is poorly used and usually within an year or two is unusable. The soil in the rainforest is different than most soil, and despite what it looks like, is not very fertile. Basically, only certain plants can survive in the rainforest (I think it has an unusually high level of nitrogen, not 100% sure on that). So it's not like they can exactly buy more seed every year and make the grass grow, it won't grow. Only grass that has grown there with grow, same with just about every tree there. It's horrible grazing and farming land. Plus you're taking away the homes of many people who have lived there for a long time in harmony with the environment there.
Posted Image %mh%-173%mh%
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · The Windmill: Off-Topic Discussion · Next Topic »
Add Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2

Theme by Sith of Outline