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| Youth academies: the basics | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 8 2011, 12:56 PM (739 Views) | |
| herenow | Dec 8 2011, 12:56 PM Post #1 |
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OK, I've searched and read around the archives here, and I'm still a little confused. A lot confused, actually. Sorry! So I'm going to ask a really dumb, Football Manager 101 question: How does the youth academy system work in FM? With MLS in particular? I'm playing as NYRB. After several seasons (and upgrades by my board), the Facilities page tells me I have "State of the Art Youth Facilities + Youth Academy," along with "Extensive youth recruitment." But where? My U18 squad? All I get there are a couple of 18-year-olds each offseason (who quickly age into squad ineligibility). No "youth contracts," no 15-year-olds, no youth training schedules, no sign of an actual "academy," beyond that one little line on my Facilities screen. What am I missing here? Again, sorry for the ignorance. Sometimes when browsing through this board I feel like everyone else is already privy to all this basic stuff, as if there's some "Everything You Need to Know About MLS and FM" FAQ they've all read! |
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| Coasterkoa | Dec 8 2011, 02:40 PM Post #2 |
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Unfortunately academies in game don't work as they do in real life. This is simply because we only received a dedicated coder this year to work on MLS. So much was to be done to MLS that certain things were given priorities and the academies producing players at all is an improvement on previous incarnations. FM13 should have a much better approximation of what academies are like in real life. As for now, this will simply work as you have described. You'll get a small batch of youth players every year. |
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| herenow | Dec 8 2011, 02:58 PM Post #3 |
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I see. So in what way do you actually interact with this academy, even at this minor level? Where (in the game) does the academy exist? Can you see the youngsters' names? In other words, when you say it "produces players" -- in what sense does even this happen? Because as far as I can tell, I merely get these couple of 18-year-olds suddenly popping up in the U18 squad each year. I don't see any indication of their having emerged from my "academy." They're just new names that suddenly are ... just there. Seemingly out of nowhere. In other words, beyond that one line on my Facilities page, there appears to be no indication of any "New York Red Bulls Youth Academy" anywhere in my game. That's the part I'm trying to suss out here, I guess. |
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| Coasterkoa | Dec 8 2011, 04:22 PM Post #4 |
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You don't interact with the academy at all. The players simply appear. It will get better with each version of the game. |
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| herenow | Dec 8 2011, 08:58 PM Post #5 |
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Hmm. Gotcha. Thanks for the info (and your patience!). This is precisely why I'm glad I discovered this site. I guess my ignorance is just about the way FM is built. Like, I wouldn't have thought MLS coding would be relevant to this particular area, any more than it's relevant to, say, stadium expansion. I figured academy functionality was universal: If Team X establishes a youth academy, why would the experience for the actual gamer be any different, whether Team X happens to be in England, USA or Timbuktu? Now, sure, once you get a step past the academy -- actually signing players, GA contracts, all the other MLS-specific madness -- then yeah, that's where I'd expect the MLS coding to come into play. But the academy itself? Again, I guess I just don't get how it's any different from stadium expansion or agent fees or any other basic FM element. There's an academy; it has kids in it; those kids develop. Seems pretty cut-and-dried. |
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| Coasterkoa | Dec 8 2011, 11:47 PM Post #6 |
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Well for other countries, it previously was the same as it is in MLS in FM12, you'd get a random smattering of youth players at a certain point once a year. Now, you have a random smattering of youth players that appear on trial at your club, as though they had just graduated your academy and were looking for a pro deal. It means you don't have to sign plays who have no chance of playing for your club. Of course, in MLS, the way I hope it works in the future is that you retain the rights of all players in your academy, regardless of if they sign for a PDL club (ie, go to college) or not, and you can sign them at any time. This of course means you'll have a fully stocked academy year round so you can sign your youth players midseason if you need. Your academy players would also be eligible to train with the first team to see if they are up to snuff as well as playing in reserve games. |
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| herenow | Dec 9 2011, 03:04 PM Post #7 |
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Well, the MLS improvements have come a long way in FM, so I trust it will only keep getting better, as you say. Meanwhile, guess it's time to fire up FMRTE and create a few 14-year-olds for my U18 squad. I want to develop somebody, for heaven's sake! |
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| themodelcitizen | Dec 12 2011, 11:52 PM Post #8 |
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I made TFC Academy a 'b' team with an age limit of 19. Apparently this writes over the reserves, but if I couldn't use academy players in the reserves then I wasn't bothered with it anyways. As long as I make a point of doing it at least a few "hours" before a game (in the game date/time), I can call up youngsters from the B team who take a roster spot but no wage space. Then I send them back down when I'm done to play in the CSL with the Academy. For CCL/Canadian Championship games they don't need to be moved, I can simply use Academy players. |
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| meter | Dec 14 2011, 11:36 AM Post #9 |
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Good idea. Remember a while back there being a post that detailed how to set PA and CA with respects to how they compare to MLS , USL , etc.. players. Any idea or info would be appreciated. Thanks |
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| looknohands | Dec 15 2011, 05:27 PM Post #10 |
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A general rule I've used for the past few years of editing the draft: If you're looking at MLS-level talent, I look at a 22 y.o. and give them a CA around 95-100. 21 y.o. would be 90-95. 20 y.o. would be 85-90. Etc. As far as PA goes, out of the 125 or so players available for the draft, I'll have about 80 or so with a PA of 115 or less as they likely won't make it in the league. Another 30 or so would fall between 115 and 125, and the remaining 15 would generally fall between 130-150. Every once in a while I may have a player with a higher PA (usually a young GA prospect, typically a goalie.) For GA players, I usually go with low CA/high PA for young players, or high CA/low PA for older ones. A 22 y.o. GA player would likely have a CA of 105 (possible immediate starter) with a PA in the 120-130 range. Generally, if I edit a player to be one of the non-MLS prospects I'll set their CA to be in the 70-85 range and then tweak them to ensure that their atts are balanced enough to be decently successful...and potentially challenging in Cup games. A stamina rating of at least 10 is a must! |
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| Aljarov | Jan 2 2012, 04:40 PM Post #11 |
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Your draft ratings are far too high....in reality only 15-20 players make it each year, to suggest that more than those 20 have a CA over about 90 is off mark. PA too is far too high. I'm very happy with the draft CA/PA right now, and although I would like several changes for the draft, the quality is about right. Of course, the side issue with the draft is it has to, by default, restock the USMNT, which presents it own problems. |
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| Coasterkoa | Jan 2 2012, 09:13 PM Post #12 |
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The problem isn't his ratings or yours, but the simplistic CA and PA system, along with the ability to accurately see a player's attributes. In the game, you can look at a players attributes and see that he's nowhere near MLS level, while in real life you may draft a player late and invite him to your preseason camp as a long shot, and he may actually may prove himself to be better than your higher draft picks. The progression logic isn't there for a player transitioning from college to pros, where rapid advancement to MLS level happens for some players, while other players who may have shown better in college simply don't get to that level. This is very hard to judge in real life, but in FM, you get exactly what you see in terms of attributes. This isn't an American database issue, more of an overall issue with FM, but still. By the way, I crunched some numbers an in the most recent FM database, there are 37 players from the 2010 Super Draft who have CA of 90 or above. I chose the 2010 SuperDraft because two years on we have a better idea of how good these players are, but some have progressed past the ability they were at when drafted. I'm doing a more thorough analysis as well, as well as the 2011 SuperDraft. edit: There are 32 players with CA of 90 or more in the 2011 SuperDraft, but only 6 players over 95, as opposed to 21 from the 2010 SuperDraft. |
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| looknohands | Jan 3 2012, 05:50 PM Post #13 |
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Any lower on the CA values and the computer will never play them, unlike real life where plenty of rookies see significant playing time. Heck, the Canadian newgen that I lowered from a 180PA to 150 fell to me with the 16th pick in the draft. 19y.o. with a CA in the upper 80s. The waiver draft was almost completely filled with nothing but drafted players and not a single team selected one. All in all, a typical draft sees 5 or so players at 4 stars and above, another 10 or so at 3 1/2 and the vast majority falling between two and three stars. |
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| Aljarov | Jan 14 2012, 06:50 PM Post #14 |
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I'm going to do some more work on the research/date side of the draft ahead of the next version and hopefully it can be implemented by the coding side to get a better balance between realistic CA/PA and the AI managing the selections properly. |
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| Uncle Sam | Jan 15 2012, 12:46 AM Post #15 |
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I was pretty impressed with some of the stuff they did with the draft this year, with the grades and whatnot. It's pretty cool, hopefully it can be expanded on and improved. |
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