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U.S. House Foreign Affairs Committee passes; Armenian Genocide Resolution
Topic Started: Oct 12 2007, 06:34 PM (342 Views)
real american

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"With a vote of 27 to 21, the influential panel of the U.S. House of Representatives took a major step toward ending U.S. complicity in Turkey’s denial of the Armenian Genocide, adopting H.Res.106, the Armenian Genocide Resolution, despite an intense campaign of threats and intimidation by the Turkish government and its lobbyists in Washington, DC, reported the Armenian National Committee of America (ANCA).

In his opening remarks, the Committee chairman, Tom Lantos called on the Congressmen to vote in good conscience.

The Committee decision opens the way for full house consideration of the measure.

“The Foreign Affairs Committee’s adoption today of the Armenian Genocide Resolution represents a meaningful step toward reclaiming our right - as Americans - to speak openly and honestly about the first genocide of the 20th Century, free from the gag-rule that Turkey has, for far too long, sought to impose on our nation’s elected officials,” said Aram Hamparian, Executive Director of the ANCA. “As Americans, we must always remain free to speak openly about human rights and should never outsource our nation’s foreign policy - or our morality - to another nation.”

“The adoption of the Resolution is significant both for the United States and the whole world. If we do not pass the resolution on the first genocide of the 20th century, the crime may be repeated in future,” said Rep. Edward Royce (R-CA).

Meanwhile the committee members who opposed the resolution said “modern Turkey is not the Ottoman Empire and it bears no responsibility for the crime committed 90 years ago.”

Introduced on January 30th by Rep. Adam Schiff along with Representative George Radanovich (R-CA), Congressional Armenian Caucus Co-Chairs Frank Pallone (D-NJ) and Joe Knollenberg (R-MI), Rep. Anna Eshoo (D-CA), Rep. Brad Sherman (D-CA) and Rep. Thaddeus McCotter (R-MI), the Armenian Genocide resolution calls upon the President to ensure that the foreign policy of the United States reflects appropriate understanding and sensitivity concerning issues related to human rights, ethnic cleansing, and genocide documented in the United States record relating to the Armenian Genocide. The resolution is cosponsored by 226 Members of Congress from 39 states. A similar resolution in the Senate (S.Res.106), introduced by Assistant Majority Leader Dick Durbin (D-IL) and Sen. John Ensign (R-NV) currently has 32 cosponsors, including Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) and presidential candidate Hillary Clinton (D-NY)."
- PanARMENIAN.Net

I am glade it has been passed! We need to recognize the Armenian Genocide!

NEVER AGAIN shall we be starved to death...
NEVER AGAIN shall we die in vain...
NEVER AGAIN shall we be deported from our homes...
NEVER AGAIN shall our children be orphaned...
Armenians...
NEVER AGAIN
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real american

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Culture Warrior
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This is something good, RA.

I just hope those that committed this autrocity will not continue to be what their forefathers were, and decide to retaliate because someone decided to recognize that what they did (or are doing) is wrong.

These would be the members of the "Religion of Peace"
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real american

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Culture Warrior,Oct 12 2007
07:26 PM
This is something good, RA.

I just hope those that committed this autrocity will not continue to be what their forefathers were, and decide to retaliate because someone decided to recognize that what they did (or are doing) is wrong.

These would be the members of the "Religion of Peace"

Turkish people still deny it, I will say though some accept what happened. One man from what I heard was shot and killed for he spoke out against the denial. Also Reagan was the ONLY president to call what happened to the Armenians in 1915 a genocide.
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Culture Warrior
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RA,

I find your quotes of Tafat Pasha and Adolf Hitler quite interesting.

My family heritage is Polish - VERY little is said of the suffering the Poles have had since the beginning of WWII, thru communist takeover of Poland, and ending during the fall of USSR. The Poles were treated as bad as the Jews - yet noone recognizes this at all..........

Poland - Hitler's First Target for Annihilation

Quote:
 
Half of These Holocaust Victims Were Non-Jews.

On August 22, 1939, a few days before the official start of World War II, Hitler authorized his commanders, with these infamous words, to kill "without pity or mercy, all men, women, and children of Polish descent or language. Only in this way can we obtain the living space [lebensraum] we need".

Heinrich Himmler echoed Hitler's decree:

"All Poles will disappear from the world.... It is essential that the great German people should consider it as its major task to destroy all Poles."

On September 1, 1939, Hitler invaded Poland from three directions. Hitler's invincible troops attacked from the west, the north and the south. Poland never had a chance. By October 8, 1939, Polish Jews and non-Jews were stripped of all rights and, were subject to special legislation. Rationing, which allowed for only bare sustenance of food and medicine was quickly set up.

    * Young Polish men were forcibly drafted into the German army.
    * The Polish language was forbidden. Only the German language was allowed.
    * All secondary schools and colleges were closed.
    * The Polish press was liquidated. Libraries and bookshops were burned.
    * Polish art and culture were destroyed.
    * Polish churches and snyagogues were burned.
    * Most of the priests were arrested and sent to concentration camps.
    * Street signs were either destroyed or changed to new German names. Polish cities and towns were renamed in German.
    * Ruthless obliteration of all traces of Polish history and culture.

Hitler's Goal: Terrorize Polish People Into Subservience.

Hundreds of Polish community leaders, mayors, local officials, priests, teachers, lawyers, judges, senators, doctors were executed in public.

Much of the rest of the so-called Intelligentsia, the Polish leading class, was sent to concentration camps where they later died.

The first mass execution of World War II took place in Wawer, a town near Warsaw, Poland on December 27, 1939 when 107 Polish non-Jewish men were taken from their homes in the middle of the night and shot.

This was just the beginning of the street roundups and mass executions that continued throughout the war.

At the same time, on the eastern border of Poland, the Soviet Union invaded and quickly conquered. Germany and the Soviet Union divided Poland in half. The western half, occupied by the Nazis, became a new German territory: "General Gouvernment". The eastern half was incorporated within the adjoining Russian border by Soviet "elections". This new border "realignment" conferred Soviet citizenship on its new Polish inhabitants. And all young Polish men were subject to being drafted into the Soviet army.

Just like the Nazis the Soviets also reigned terror in Poland. The Soviets took over Polish businesses, Polish factories and destroyed churches and religious buildings. The Polish currency (zloty) was removed from circulation. All Polish banks were closed and savings accounts were blocked.

During the period of the Holocaust of World War II, Poland lost:

    * 45% of her doctors,
    * 57% of her attorneys
    * 40% of her professors,
    * 30% of her technicians,
    * more than 18% of her clergy
    * most of her journalists.

Poland's educated class was purposely targeted because the Nazis knew that this would make it easier to control the country.

Non-Jews of Polish descent suffered over 100,000 deaths at Auschwitz. The Germans forcibly deported approximately 2,000,000 Polish Gentiles into slave labor for the Third Reich. The Russians deported almost 1,700,000 Polish non-Jews to Siberia. Men, women and children were forced from their homes with no warning. Transferred in cattle cars in freezing weather, many died on the way. Polish children who possessed Aryan-looking characteristics were wrenched from their mother's arms and placed in German homes to be raised as Germans.

The Polish people were classified by the Nazis according to their racial characteristics. The ones who appeared Aryan were deported to Lodz for further racial examination. Most of the others were sent to the Reich to work in slave labor camps. The rest were sent to Auschwitz to die. Polish Christians and Catholics were actually the first victims of the notorious German death camp. For the first 21 months after it began in 1940, Auschwitz was inhabited almost exclusively by Polish non-Jews. The first ethnic Pole died in June 1940 and the first Jew died in October 1942.

Because of the obliteration of the Polish press by the Nazis, most of the world was not aware, including many parts of Nazi-occupied Poland, of the atrocities going on. Even to this day, much documentation of the Holocaust is not available. The entire records of Auschwitz were stolen by the Soviets and not returned. It was Hitler's goal to rewrite history.

The Nazis destroyed books, monuments, historical inscriptions. They began a forceful campaign of propaganda to convince the world of the inferiority and weakness of the Polish people and likewise, their invincible superiority and power.



What a sad world this has been.......and if we let the members of the Religion of Peace have their way - HISTORY WILL REPEAT ITSELF, once again.....
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real american

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http://youtube.com/watch?v=fqa9ot4GNZ8, lookk at this video. I am trying to tell these Turks the genocide is real and they are bad mouthing me and many others! Talaat is in hell for he is a blood thirsty butcher!
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real american

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http://www.theforgotten.org/site/intro_eng.html
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Toothless Dawg
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I suspect the left brought this issue up in order to damage the war on terror. If important supply lines thru Turkey are cut off, our troops are going to have a lot more problem sustaining victory. Of course, dhimwits like to dwell on past history and have monday morning quarterbacking meetings on history rather than moving forward. I believe they say this as an opportunity to delay victory.

Story Link

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real american

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Toothless Dawg,Oct 15 2007
01:08 PM
I suspect the left brought this issue up in order to damage the war on terror. If important supply lines thru Turkey are cut off, our troops are going to have a lot more problem sustaining victory. Of course, dhimwits like to dwell on past history and have monday morning quarterbacking meetings on history rather than moving forward. I believe they say this as an opportunity to delay victory.

Story Link

The ANCA was one of the groups to bring it up. I believe Turkey is bluffing on getting rid of the bases, THEY need them as much as we do. Turkey can have their hissy fit ALL they want but the Genocide NEEDS to be recognized. A person brought this up to my grandma but I KNOW Turkey is bluffing we need to recognize the genocide if we don't Turkey will think they won.
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Toothless Dawg
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Sorry, I won't get worked up about something that happened over 90 years ago. Yes it was wrong IF it was genocide and it appears it may have been but life goes on. Right now my concerns are to the troops that need supply lines and to America in fighting the 'insurgency' at home. Whether Turkey is bluffing or not makes no difference, it is wrong to play games with our troops/America's needs.

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Almtnman
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I feel about the same as TD on this. It was unfortunate that it happened, but right now was not the time to bring it up when our troops need a way to get supplies to them. I personally think that the Democrats that have tried ever angle they know of to end the war did this not for the genocide, but as a way to have our air bases closed down and an attempt to end the war by the back door method.
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Toothless Granny
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My background is both Irish and Native American. The English tried everything in their power to wipe the last Irishman off the face of the earth. We all know what happened and is still happening to the Native Americans.

Almost every nation has been guilty of that pesky old genocide thing sometime in their history. We are all guilty. Bringing it up now just hurts everyone involved, on both sides.
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Herb
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Toothless Granny,Oct 16 2007
07:52 AM
My background is both Irish and Native American. The English tried everything in their power to wipe the last Irishman off the face of the earth. We all know what happened and is still happening to the Native Americans.

Almost every nation has been guilty of that pesky old genocide thing sometime in their history. We are all guilty. Bringing it up now just hurts everyone involved, on both sides.

I agree that it hurts.

I can't see where bringing this up now will do any good and it will strain relations with an ally in the region.

Why would we want to do that? To hurt the war effort and cause more problems for the troops is the only reason this is being brought up. It is just another ploy to cause the president more problems.

There have been plenty of other chances to bring this up, times that would have been more appropriate or at least not as potentially damaging to the USA.
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real american

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I will have to disagree, 1.5 million out of the two million Armenians were killed in the Genocide, that more than half. I am shocked that somehow a Evil Islam Country has somehow gotten the upper hand. I know I'm sounding like a troll but Turkey has said this before and the Turks need to see we won't stand for what they are saying. We could go into Kuwait and have bases, I believe Turkey is just bluffing. Like I said they need those base just as much as we do. The Turks can have their little hissy fit and act childish all they want but we need to take a stand and maybe even give some closer to the living genocide survivors. I'm sorry but to me I don't give one crap about Turkey. In my opinion Turkey already hates us, I was reading a Turks idea on America saying how we are full of ourselves and they will destroy us one day. Now I bet MORE than 80% think like that. We need to take a stand against the Turks! Click on the Armenian Flag below, it is a link to a Armenian Genocide survivor's account on what happened to him. Click on the Turkish Flag to see what they think.

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Almtnman
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RA, if they are bluffing, they sure fooled me because gas went up 8 cents a gallon over night in my area. According to every news item I've heard and read, said the increase in gas price is a direct result of what's happening from Turkey right now.

Look for gas prices to steadily rise as a result of this latest foreign affairs flap.
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real american

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They may be raising the gas prices but they won't get rid of the bases. They need them as well.
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Toothless Dawg
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RA,

While I admire your enthusiasm for certain causes, are you willing to gamble 100,000 American lives on a decision you believe a sovereign foreign government may make? As bad as genocide is wherever or whenever it happens, remember what Toothless Granny said ...

Quote:
 
Almost every nation has been guilty of that pesky old genocide thing sometime in their history. We are all guilty. Bringing it up now just hurts everyone involved, on both sides.


There are times to raise a stink and times to bite one's tongue. In this instance, we need Turkey to provide air space and a supply route. I agree they probably won't shut us down but what if they did? A lesson to be learned in life is, 'Pick your location, your opponent, and the time of your fight" This is not the time to be raising a 90 year old issue merely for the sake of getting someone to say, "Yes, it was genocide". Do you believe that admission would bring people back to life? I believe it possibly could cause more American lives to be lost and I will never agree with that.

EDIT- Oh and one other thing. Yes, Turkey benefits from our bases being there ... but NEVER discount the effectiveness of the Turkish military when they are in their own backyard. They don't need us to survive as a country ... but they do profit from our presence in many ways.
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real american

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Toothless Dawg,Oct 16 2007
06:48 PM
RA,

While I admire your enthusiasm for certain causes, are you willing to gamble 100,000 American lives on a decision you believe a sovereign foreign government may make? As bad as genocide is wherever or whenever it happens, remember what Toothless Granny said ...

Quote:
 
Almost every nation has been guilty of that pesky old genocide thing sometime in their history. We are all guilty. Bringing it up now just hurts everyone involved, on both sides.


There are times to raise a stink and times to bite one's tongue. In this instance, we need Turkey to provide air space and a supply route. I agree they probably won't shut us down but what if they did? A lesson to be learned in life is, 'Pick your location, your opponent, and the time of your fight" This is not the time to be raising a 90 year old issue merely for the sake of getting someone to say, "Yes, it was genocide". Do you believe that admission would bring people back to life? I believe it possibly could cause more American lives to be lost and I will never agree with that.

EDIT- Oh and one other thing. Yes, Turkey benefits from our bases being there ... but NEVER discount the effectiveness of the Turkish military when they are in their own backyard. They don't need us to survive as a country ... but they do profit from our presence in many ways.

While I can see your reasoning and have in a way changed my opinion a little, my Armenian part is speaking loud. This may have been 90 years ago but in a way it has not died. A Turkish man spoke out on this and his office was bombed. The Damn Turks don't want to admit the Genocide because they don't want to admit they killed anybody and if they do they become responsible for what they have done and with responsibility they will pay indemnity.They are hoping to drag this on till everyone forgets it, well so far its working. Like TD said its been 90 years, ask anyone on the street what the Armenian Genocide and many will not know. The murder of my family and many other men, women, and children will be forgotten in the sands of time while the other Genocide our talked in schools. The 1.5 million Armenians killed will be forgotten and the only thing to mark what happened will be the desert. I don't see why we can't have bases in Kuwait. But I feel if we don't recognize the Genocide now it will never be and then the hope of recognizing the genocide will die along with the Genocide Survivors. All us Armenians ever craved was that the Genocide be recognized and that is it, at the rate the world is going that will never happen.
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Culture Warrior
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The damage has already been done, both on the Armenian genocide and P-ing off the Turks.

The best thing to do now, is NOT let it happen again and MOVE FORWARD......

The more this is dwelled on and rubbed into the Turks, the more it will cause problems. What is currently happening and COULD happen.

Most of the ME is ticked off at the US for one reason or another, and there will be no pleasing the majority of them. They like to dwell on things that have hurt them and want an "eye for an eye - tooth for tooth" reaction.

It would be best to just let this go at this point.............
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real american

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Culture Warrior,Oct 17 2007
08:32 PM
The damage has already been done, both on the Armenian genocide and P-ing off the Turks.

The best thing to do now, is NOT let it happen again and MOVE FORWARD......

The more this is dwelled on and rubbed into the Turks, the more it will cause problems. What is currently happening and COULD happen.

Most of the ME is ticked off at the US for one reason or another, and there will be no pleasing the majority of them. They like to dwell on things that have hurt them and want an "eye for an eye - tooth for tooth" reaction.

It would be best to just let this go at this point.............

So what you guys are saying is by stopping Turkey from having their hissy fit we should give them what they want? Abdullah Gül is a big baby and he needs to grow up!
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Almtnman
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real american,Oct 19 2007
03:57 PM

So what you guys are saying is by stopping Turkey from having their hissy fit we should give them what they want?

RA, what we're saying is; it was the wrong time to bring this up. We are in the middle of a war right now on two fronts, Iraq and Afghanistan. During the middle of a war is not the time to start messing around with our allies. :cb7:
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real american

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Almtnman,Oct 19 2007
04:25 PM
real american,Oct 19 2007
03:57 PM

So what you guys are saying is by stopping Turkey from having their hissy fit we should give them what they want?

RA, what we're saying is; it was the wrong time to bring this up. We are in the middle of a war right now on two fronts, Iraq and Afghanistan. During the middle of a war is not the time to start messing around with our allies. :cb7:

The same people of this message board who agree these people are evil and then side with them. I don't believe this!

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Toothless Dawg
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RA,

Nobody is taking sides on anything ... welcome to the real world.
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Almtnman
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real american,Oct 19 2007
06:31 PM
Almtnman,Oct 19 2007
04:25 PM
real american,Oct 19 2007
03:57 PM

So what you guys are saying is by stopping Turkey from having their hissy fit we should give them what they want?

RA, what we're saying is; it was the wrong time to bring this up. We are in the middle of a war right now on two fronts, Iraq and Afghanistan. During the middle of a war is not the time to start messing around with our allies. :cb7:

The same people of this message board who agree these people are evil and then side with them. I don't believe this!


Maybe with a little more wisdom, things will be much clearer for you.
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real american

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Toothless Dawg,Oct 19 2007
08:00 PM
RA,

Nobody is taking sides on anything ... welcome to the real world.

From my point of view yes. You all are saying that you feel we should not offend our "friends", which I can't see them ever being, and say we should keep a low profile on this. The don't deserve our respect and wishes in my opinion. If it came down to it they would change sides and become our enemies in a heart beat! They are backstabbers and are deceivers like their ottoman ancestors. They are blinded by lies in thinking the Genocide never happened. In my opinion it come down to two these two choices recognize the genocide or bury our heads in the dirt. Like I said in my opinion if not now never shall we get a chance because by then no one will remember.
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Toothless Dawg
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Okeedokeee, you're certainly entitled to your opinion

Dawg out ...
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real american

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Has anyone heard of anything new on this topic? I'll check the ANCA.com
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Almtnman
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Yeah, I heard Turkey had troops moving towards the Iraq border getting ready to invade and heard that some of the politicians that voted for that resolution now have second thoughts about their vote.
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real american

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Almtnman,Oct 24 2007
06:26 AM
Yeah, I heard Turkey had troops moving towards the Iraq border getting ready to invade and heard that some of the politicians that voted for that resolution now have second thoughts about their vote.

Read this

Turkeys Empty Threats
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real american

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7 good reasons to recognize the Armenian Genocide

Why we should Recognize the genocide

all of these links are to the ANCA. I ask you read them.
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real american

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Myth: Turkey is a reliable ally

Fact: In 2003 Turkey blocked a Northern front in Iraq, which, according to the Dept. of Defense, contributed to the strength of the insurgency. Since then, Turkey has largely abandoned its role as a reliable regional partner, as shown by destabilizing role it is playing in northern Iraq.

Also Turkey has threatened at least 6 countries of severing ties with them if they recognized the Armenian genocide. THEY HAVE NOT SEVERED THOSE TIES YET!!!
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real american,Oct 24 2007
06:12 PM
Myth: Turkey is a reliable ally

Fact: In 2003 Turkey blocked a Northern front in Iraq, which, according to the Dept. of Defense, contributed to the strength of the insurgency. Since then, Turkey has largely abandoned its role as a reliable regional partner, as shown by destabilizing role it is playing in northern Iraq.

Also Turkey has threatened at least 6 countries of severing ties with them if they recognized the Armenian genocide. THEY HAVE NOT SEVERED THOSE TIES YET!!!

I'm glad the US finally has some guts on the hill to recognize the Armenian Genocide.

The hypocrisy of critizing genocidal scumbags while coddling other scumbags was growing very tiresome.
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real american

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bacterialalbatross,Oct 24 2007
06:15 PM
real american,Oct 24 2007
06:12 PM
Myth: Turkey is a reliable ally

Fact: In 2003 Turkey blocked a Northern front in Iraq, which, according to the Dept. of Defense, contributed to the strength of the insurgency. Since then, Turkey has largely abandoned its role as a reliable regional partner, as shown by destabilizing role it is playing in northern Iraq.

Also Turkey has threatened at least 6 countries of severing ties with them if they recognized the Armenian genocide. THEY HAVE NOT SEVERED THOSE TIES YET!!!

I'm glad the US finally has some guts on the hill to recognize the Armenian Genocide.

The hypocrisy of critizing genocidal scumbags while coddling other scumbags was growing very tiresome.

it has taken 90 years but the wait is over in my opinion.
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Almtnman
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RA, I don't believe a word you say about Turkey not being an ally. You see pal, I was in Korea and Turkish troops helped us out more than I can ever say here. No matter what resolution passes or how many times it is brought up, nothing will change the fact that it happened 90 years ago and we can't change it and make it go away.

BTW, for your information Turkish planes bombed a village inside Iraq last night. So I will say that the resolution was brought up at a very bad time.

Also, you are reading our message posts here and trying to make insinuations that we are saying something that we're not. I'm not really happy when somebody tries to turn what I say into something else and from going over the posts I see that some others have the same feeling as I do.

So I'm going to say this one last time, so read what I say and think about it before you get your pants in a wad.

What we have been saying and you haven't listened is, we know about the genocide that happened 90 years ago, that's history. You can't change history. What we have been telling you and others and you apparently don't want to hear is, the resolution was done at the wrong time. If it happened 90 years ago, I'm sure that the difference in a few years would not hurt a thing. What happened was, a bunch of liberals in congress only did it in an attempt to shut the war down which was wrong in that they did the resolution not really acknowledging the genocide for what it was, but for their own interest of stopping the war. If you can't see that, then I don't know what else to say. But don't come back here and try to twist what I said into something else.

Almtnman outta here!!!!
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