Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to The Mountain. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
History Being Repeated; thru ignorance
Topic Started: Apr 1 2007, 07:10 AM (281 Views)
Culture Warrior
Member Avatar
an Angry American
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
This is from a friend:


Sixty three years ago, Nazi Germany had overrun almost all of Europe and hammered England to the verge of bankruptcy and defeat. The Nazi's had sunk more than 400 British ships in their convoys between England and America taking food and war materials to the bottom of the North Atlantic.


At that time, the U.S. was in an isolationist, pacifist mood, and most Americans wanted nothing to do with the European or the Asian war.


Then along came Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941, and in outrage, congress unanimously declared war on Japan, and the following day on Germany, who had not yet attacked us. It was a dicey thing. We had few allies.


France was not an ally, as the Vichy government of France quickly aligned itself with its German occupiers. Germany was certainly not an ally, as Hitler was intent on setting up a Thousand Year Reich in Europe. Japan was not an ally, as it was well on its way to owning an controlling all of Asia.


Together, Japan and Germany had long range plans of invading Canada and Mexico, as launching pads to get into the United States over our northern and southern borders, after they finished gaining control of Asia and Europe.

America's only allies then were England, Ireland, Scotland, Canada, Australia, and Russia. That was about it. All of Europe, from Norway to Italy (except Russia in the east) was already under the Nazi heel.


The U.S. was certainly not prepared for war. The U.S. had drastically downgraded most of its military forces after WWI because of the depression, so that at the outbreak of WWII, army units were training with broomsticks because they didn't have guns, and cars with "tank" painted on the doors because they didn't have real tanks. A huge chunk of our navy had just been sunk or damaged at Pearl Harbor.


Britain had already gone bankrupt, saved only by the donation of $600 million in gold bullion in the Bank of England (that was actually the property of Belgium) given by Belgium to England to carry on the war when Belgium was overrun by Hitler (a little known fact).

Actually, Belgium surrendered in one day, because it was unable to oppose the German invasion, and the Germans bombed Brussels into rubble the next day just to prove they could.
Britain had already been holding out for two years in the face of staggering losses and the near decimation of it's Royal Air Force in the Battle of Britain, and was saved from being overrun by Germany only because Hitler made the mistake of thinking the Brits were relatively minor threat that could be dealt with later. Hitler, first turned his attention to Russia, in the late summer of 1940 at a time when England was on the verge of collapse.

Ironically, Russia saved America's butt by putting up a desperate fight for two years, until the U.S. got geared up to begin hammering away at Germany.

Russia lost something like 24,000,000 people in the sieges of Stalingrad and Moscow alone...90% of them from cold and starvation, mostly civilians, but also more than 1,000,000 soldiers.

Had Russia surrendered, Hitler would have been able to focus his entire war effort against the Brits, then America. If that had happened, the Nazis could possibly have won the war.

All of this has been brought out to illustrate that turning points in history are often dicey things. Now, we find ourselves at another one of those key moments in history.

There is a very dangerous minority in Islam that either has, or wants, and may soon have, the ability to deliver small nuclear, biological, or chemical weapons, almost anywhere in the world.
The Jihadis, the militant Muslims, are basically the Nazis in Kaffiyahs -- they believe that Islam, a radically conservative form of Wahhabi Islam, should own and control the Middle East first, then Europe, then the world. To them, all who do not bow to their will of thinking should be killed, enslaved, or subjugated. They want to finish the Holocaust, destroy Israel, and purge the world of Jews. This is their mantra.

There is also a civil war raging in the Middle East -- for the most part not a hot war, but a war of ideas. Islam is having its Inquisition and its Reformation, but it is not yet known which side will win -- the Inquisitors, or the Reformationists.

If the Inquisition wins, then the Wahhabis, the Jihadis, will control the Middle East, the OPEC oil, and the U.S., European, and Asian economies.

The techno-industrial economies will be at the mercy of OPEC -- not an OPEC dominated by the educated, (semi-rational), Saudis of today, but an OPEC dominated by the Jihadis. Do you want gas in your car? Do you want heating oil next winter? Do you want the dollar to be worth anything? You had better hope the Jihad, the Muslim Inquisition, loses, and the Islamic Reformation wins.

If the reformation movement wins, that is, the moderate Muslims who believe that Islam can respect and tolerate other religions, live in peace with the rest of the world, and move out of the 10th century into the 21st, then the troubles in the Middle East will eventually fade away. A moderate and prosperous Middle East will emerge.

We have to help the Reformation win, and to do that we have to fight the Inquisition, i.e., the Wahhabi movement, the Jihad, Al Qaeda, and the Islamic terrorist movements. We have to do it somewhere. We can't do it everywhere at once. We have created a focal point for the battle at time and place of our choosing.....in Iraq. Not in New York, not in London, or Paris or Berlin, but in Iraq, where we are doing two important things.

(1) We deposed Saddam Hussein. Whether Saddam Hussein was directly involved in the 9/11 terrorist attack or not, it is undisputed that Saddam was actively supporting the terrorist movement for decades. Saddam was a terrorist! Saddam was a weapon of mass destruction, responsible for the deaths of probably more than 1,000,000 Iraqis and 2,000,000 Iranians.
(2) We created a battle, a confrontation, a flash point, with Islamic terrorism in Iraq. We have focused the battle. We are killing bad people, and the ones we get there, we won't have to get here. We also have a good shot at creating a democratic, peaceful Iraq, which will be a catalyst for democratic change in the rest of the Middle East, and an outpost for a stabilizing American military presence in the Middle East for as long as it is needed.

WWII, the war with the Japanese and German Nazis, really began with a "whimper" in 1928. It did not begin with Pearl Harbor. It began with the Japanese invasion of China. It was a war for 14 years before the U.S. joined it. It officially ended in 1945 -- a 17 year war -- and was followed by another decade of U.S. occupation in Germany and Japan to get those countries reconstructed and running on their own again....a 27 year war.

WWII cost the United States an amount equal to approximately a full year's GDP -- adjusted for inflation, equal to about $12 trillion dollars. WWII cost America more than 400,000 soldiers killed in action, and nearly 100,000 still missing in action.

The Iraq war has, so far, cost the United States about $160,000,000,000, which is roughly what the 9/11 terrorist attack cost New York. It has also cost about 3000 American lives, which is roughly equivalent to lives that the Jihad killed (within the United States) in the 9/11 terrorist attack.

The cost of not fighting and winning WWII would have been unimaginably greater -- a world dominated by Japanese Imperialism and German Nazism.

This is not a 60 Minutes TV show, or a 2 hour movie in which everything comes out okay. The real world is not like that. It is messy, uncertain, and sometimes bloody and ugly. It always has been and probably always will be.

The bottom line is that we will have to deal with Islamic terrorism until we defeat it, whenever that is. It will not go away if we ignore it.


If the U.S. can create a reasonably democratic and stable Iraq, then we have an ally, like England, in the Middle East, a platform, from which we can work to help modernize and moderate the Middle East. The history of the world is the clash between the forces of relative civility and civilization, and the barbarians clamoring at the gates to conquer the world.
The Iraq War is merely another battle in this ancient and never ending war. Now, for the first time ever, the barbarians are about to get nuclear weapons. Unless somebody prevents them from getting them.

We have four options:

1. We can defeat the Jihad now, before it gets nuclear weapons.

2. We can fight the Jihad later, after it gets nuclear weapons (which may be as early as next year, if Iran's progress on nuclear weapons is what Iran claims it is).

3. We can surrender to the Jihad and accept its dominance in the Middle East now; in Europe in the next few years or decades and ultimately in America.

or..............

4. We can stand down now, and pick up the fight later when the Jihad is more widespread and better armed, perhaps after the Jihad has dominated France and Germany and possibly most of the rest of Europe. It will, of course, be more dangerous, more expensive and much bloodier.
If you oppose this war, I hope you like the idea that your children, or grandchildren, may live in an Islamic America under the Mullahs and the Sharia, an America that resembles Iran today.
The history of the world is the history of civilization clashes, cultural clashes. All wars are about ideas, ideas about what society and civilization should be like, and the most determined always wins.

Those who are willing to be the most ruthless always win. The pacifists always lose, because the anti-pacifists kill them.


Remember, perspective is everything, and America's schools teach too little history for perspective to be clear, especially in the young American mind.


The Cold War lasted from about 1947 at least until the Berlin Wall came down in 1989; forty-two years!!!


Europe spent the first half of the 19th century fighting Napoleon, and from 1870 to 1945 fighting Germany!

WWII began in 1928, lasted 17 years, plus a ten year occupation, and the U.S. still has troops in Germany and Japan today. WWII resulted in the death of more than 50,000,000 people, maybe more than 100,000,000 people depending on which estimates you accept.

The U.S. has taken more than 3,000 killed in action in Iraq. The U.S. took more than 4,000 killed in action on the morning of June 6, 1944, the first day of the Normandy Invasion to rid Europe of Nazi Imperialism.

In WWII the U.S. averaged 2,000 KIA a week -- for four years. Most of the individual battles of WWII lost more American lives than the entire Iraq war has done so far.

The stakes are at least as high....A world dominated by representative governments with civil rights, human rights, and personal freedoms....or a world dominated by a radical Islamic Wahhabi movement, by the Jihad, under the Mulluahs and the Sharia (Islamic law).

It's difficult to understand why the average American does not grasp this. They favor human rights, civil rights, liberty and freedom, but evidently not for Iraqis.

"Peace activists" always seem to demonstrate here in America, where it's safe. Why don't we see peace activists demonstrating in Iran, Syria, Iraq, Sudan, or North Korea? Places that really need peace activism the most? I'll tell you why! They would be killed!

The liberal mentality is supposed to favor human rights, civil rights, democracy, multiculturalism, diversity, etc., but if the Jihad wins, wherever the Jihad wins, it is the end of civil rights, human rights, democracy, multiculturalism, diversity, etc.

Americans who oppose the liberation of Iraq are coming down on the side of their own worst enemy!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Condor
Member Avatar
Ruler of the Mountain
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
A war far worse than Iraq is the one in the American medical industry. I just read in the paper that 90,000 people die per year from medical mistakes - mostly mis-diagnosis. The cost is more by multiples as well. Yet, what do the liberals want to fix? The war for civilization! They should focus some energies on the war for life and health where the enemy wears no uniform either. The 90,000 figure is up from a mere 60,000 in the late 1990's by the way. looks like we are really losing that war!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Toothless Granny
Advanced Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Now teachers are dropping the holocost and the crusades from their history classes. They are too violent. How are our children supposed to learn from past history if they aren't taught past history????
Bad enough when our own politicians don't know history, but now they're failing in their duty as teachers by not teaching what may become most important in our children's future.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Hick
Unregistered

Toothless Granny,Apr 2 2007
09:43 AM
Now teachers are dropping the holocost and the crusades from their history classes. They are too violent. How are our children supposed to learn from past history if they aren't taught past history????
Bad enough when our own politicians don't know history, but now they're failing in their duty as teachers by not teaching what may become most important in our children's future.

They don't want the young ones to know the real history of the world. They want to teach the Politically Correct versions of everything. To hell with that! History has never been a pretty subject, but if they don't start teaching it ALL without leaving 99% of the relevant stuff out, then we are gonna go the way of the Romans. The bloody History books of today are nothing like what I had when I was in school.
Quote Post Goto Top
 
Condor
Member Avatar
Ruler of the Mountain
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Anyone who remembers anything about World War II, or has studied anything
about World War II, will understand and remember that during World War II,
the Japanese developed a way to demoralize the American forces. The Japanese
psychological warfare experts developed a message they felt would work.

They gave their psychological warfare script to their famous broadcaster
"Tokyo Rose" and every day she would broadcast this same message packaged
in different ways, hoping it would have a negative impact on an American GI's
morale. What was that demoralizing message?

It had three main points:

1. Your President is lying to you.
2. This war is illegal.
3. You cannot win the war

Does this sound familiar?

Is it because---

Tokyo Hillary,
Tokyo Harry,
Tokyo Teddy
Tokyo Nancy ,
Tokyo Durbin,
Tokyo Kerry,
Tokyo Murtha
Tokyo Barack Hussein Obama Jr,

etc. have all learned from the former enemies of our country and have
picked up the same message and are broadcasting it on:

Tokyo CNN, Wolf Blitzer
Tokyo ABC, Charles Gibson
Tokyo CBS, Katie Couric
Tokyo NBC, Brian Williams / Tim Russert
etc., to our troops?

The only difference is that they claim to support our troops before they
try to demoralize them.

Come to think of it... Tokyo Rose told the American troops she was on
their side, also.

And please don't forget the real Tokyo Rosie O'Donnell

---Please Pass This on
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Ali
Ruler of the Mountain
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Thanks for sharing the history CW. I believe that history repeats itself, and if we don't remember that, then we should often be reminded. We have some friends who truly believe that Democracy will not last. Behind their rose colored glasses, and lack of remembering history, they believe we are in the wrong.
Without wanting to sound wishy-washy about American History, Pete has often said that schools still teach the age old stuff. Pyramids and the Great Wall of China - that's all well and good - but where is the history of today? Get the kids interested in the here and now, and how we got here! Are there no teachers who have pride in our Country? There are enough Ward Churchills in our colleges today and we hear more and more about them. Our kids need to be taught the truth and learn pride for America before they go off into the world.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Duke
Member Avatar
Duke
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]


"Those that do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it."(I forgot who wrote that, but it is true.)

We are in "Perilous Times', but it is going to get worse.

Why? Because of man's own foolishness, not all men just too many of them.

Some overlook spiritual warfare, some overlook some realities of physical life and history- some misread all 3.

They do not apply those realities to what is happening in our country and the world in light of the past and they are wrong in ways about today's world.

Thanks from a grateful American for the opportunity to read what ya'll have written, looks like a very good topic.

I'll check back to see what else ya'll and others write,

Duke
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Culture Warrior
Member Avatar
an Angry American
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Condor,Apr 2 2007
11:02 AM
Anyone who remembers anything about World War II, or has studied anything
about World War II, will understand and remember that during World War II,
the Japanese developed a way to demoralize the American forces. The Japanese
psychological warfare experts developed a message they felt would work.

They gave their psychological warfare script to their famous broadcaster
"Tokyo Rose" and every day she would broadcast this same message packaged
in different ways, hoping it would have a negative impact on an American GI's
morale. What was that demoralizing message?

It had three main points:

1. Your President is lying to you.
2. This war is illegal.
3. You cannot win the war

Does this sound familiar?

Is it because---

Tokyo Hillary,
Tokyo Harry,
Tokyo Teddy
Tokyo Nancy ,
Tokyo Durbin,
Tokyo Kerry,
Tokyo Murtha
Tokyo Barack Hussein Obama Jr,

etc. have all learned from the former enemies of our country and have
picked up the same message  and are broadcasting it on:

Tokyo CNN, Wolf Blitzer
Tokyo ABC, Charles Gibson
Tokyo CBS, Katie Couric
Tokyo NBC, Brian Williams / Tim Russert
etc., to our troops?

The only difference is that they claim to support our troops before they
try to  demoralize them.

Come to think of it... Tokyo Rose told the American troops she was on
their side, also.

And please don't forget the real Tokyo Rosie O'Donnell

---Please Pass This on


Condor, what you said is worth sending out in mass email if you don't mind!

I'm gonna add "Tokyo Olbermann" to your list of dingbat news "reporters".

AND, it's gonna go right back to the freind that sent the original message. "what goes around, comes around"
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Condor
Member Avatar
Ruler of the Mountain
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
It's fine with me, but I am not the author. It was sent to me.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Culture Warrior
Member Avatar
an Angry American
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Pelosi Is Our Neville Chamberlain
By Ronald Kessler

Quote:
 
With her trip to Syria, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi achieved two things: She undercut her own credibility in Washington, and she spotlighted what is wrong with the Democrats' approach to national security.
The spectacle of Pelosi making nice with Syrian dictator Bashar al-Assad in Damascus and accepting at face value his claim that he is ready to "resume the peace process" with Israel had a large portion of official Washington tittering.
At the same time, Syrian authorities were telling the local press that there had been no change in its position. And Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert told Pelosi that "a number of Senate and House members who recently visited Damascus received the impression that despite the declarations of Bashar al-Assad, there is no change in the position of his country regarding a possible peace process with Israel."
Pelosi's Charade
Moreover, Pelosi misrepresented Israel's position to Assad, announcing that she had delivered a message from Olmert that "Israel was ready to engage in peace talks" with Syria. Olmert quickly issued a statement denying that.
Even the Washington Post saw through the charade.
"Ms. Pelosi not only misrepresented Israel's position, but was virtually alone in failing to discern that Mr. Assad's words were mere propaganda," an editorial in the paper said. The editorial added that "Ms. Pelosi's attempt to establish a shadow presidency is not only counterproductive, it is foolish."
While that is certainly true, the specter of Pelosi naively chatting with Assad and announcing that she had helped achieve a diplomatic breakthrough also highlights all that is wrong with the Democrats' approach to foreign police today.
Syria hosts the exiled leadership of Hamas, as well as other Palestinian radical groups, and is a major supplier of funds to Hezbollah. Syria is also believed to be involved in the assassination of Lebanese political figures and allowing its territory to be used by jihadists fighting against the United States-led coalition and the coalition-backed government in Iraq.
History Repeats
Pelosi's willingness to undercut the president and accept the word of the chief of state of a sponsor of terrorism is on a par with the Democrats' effort to set a timetable for fighting the war in Iraq. It brings to mind the efforts of Joseph P. Kennedy, the founder of the Kennedy dynasty, to appease Adolf Hitler.
As ambassador to the Court of St. James, Joe Kennedy met on June 13, 1938 with Herbert von Dirksen, the German ambassador. The two got along famously, and Dirksen later reported on the conversation in great detail to Baron Ernst von Weizsäcker, the German state secretary.
According to that report, Kennedy confided to the German ambassador that Neville Chamberlain, the British prime minister, was anxious to have some sort of settlement with Germany. By saying this, he undercut Great Britain's negotiating position with Hitler. Moreover, Kennedy said President Roosevelt was not anti-German and wanted friendly relations with Hitler. However, no European leader spoke well of the Germans because most of them were "afraid of the Jews" and did not "dare to say anything good about Germany . . ." Kennedy stated.
Even as the two met at the German embassy in London, Hitler was planning to gobble up most of Europe and exterminate the Jews. The following year, World War II began after Hitler invaded Poland.
"Speaker Pelosi is the Neville Chamberlain of our time," said Brad Blakeman, a Republican strategist who was an aide in the Bush White House. "Cowering to and appeasing the dictator of a terrorist state was a disgrace to the high office she holds. The Sryians used this visit to validate their bad behavior by propagandizing the whole visit and her anti-war stance."
The Pelosi visit underscores that, when it comes to dealing with our enemies, the Democrats live in a dream world. Yet when another terrorist attack occurs in the U.S., they will be the first to say President Bush did not do enough to protect the country.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Almtnman
Member Avatar
Administrator
Admin
I saw the news segment yesterday where she had made mis-statements and Israel had to clarify them after she had took it upon herself to tell a few falsehoods.

She made herself out to be a moron and placed her creditability in question. :rotfl:
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Condor
Member Avatar
Ruler of the Mountain
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Was there ever any question?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
Free Forums with no limits on posts or members.
« Previous Topic · Politics & Hot Topics · Next Topic »
Add Reply