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| I'm facing more surgery; Advice please anyone? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: 11 May 2010, 02:59 PM (2,282 Views) | |
| Mrs R | 11 May 2010, 02:59 PM Post #1 |
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Hi everyone. Well I'm feeling very upset. My foraminal epidural injections to L5 did not help at all. I saw Mr Lam at Guys today and he does not know what the problem is. He said in hundreds of operations he has not seen this before. His guess is that the facet joints are irritating the nerve at L5 but he said it's very much a stab in the dark. He says to fix the facet joints and stop them moving I could have a posterior keyhole operation to fix them with screws, he thinks 6 weeks recovery time (so I think realistically that means 8-10). But he does not know if it will work. I am utterly terrified of more surgery as it is the surgery that has caused my current pains. I don't know what to do. I have booked an appointment with Mr Shackleford to get a second opinion. The first appt I could get was 1 June. Iam just crying and going round in circles. Does anyone have any advice please or experiences of this operation? |
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2004-05 After 12 yrs of serious competitive sport, degeneration and tears L5/S1 and L4/5. 6 wks off work and went back p/t only. Told too young for surgery at 31 and that it probably won't help 2005-09 Dorsal root ganglion/steroid injections, amitriptyline, physio, osteopath, pilates and swimming 4 times per wk, back to working f/t 2009 Pain worse, saw Mr Lam at Guys. MRI: further degeneration in both discs and tear in L4/5. Discogram May 2009 14 Jan 2010 ADR L4/5, fusion L5/S1 by Mr Lam | |
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| Lynda | 11 May 2010, 03:57 PM Post #2 |
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I'm sorry you are going through this Mrs R, how awful it must be for you. We did have one member I recall, who had facet fusion for continued pain after disc replacement surgery, sarahp, but I don't know how she is since the procedure. She too had her surgery at Guy's. Perhaps you could try to contact her or search through the forum for her postings to see if she has any advice? Does your surgeon intend to fuse the facets at both L4/5 & 5/S1 or just one level (L5/S1)? I think you are wise to seek other opinions given that this is so unusual and I understand your fears and would be wary too, especially as your surgeon does not know if it will work. Sorry I cannot give anything more useful to help your situation. Thinking of you Lynda |
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May 2008 onwards - Lumbar facet injections - First post-op ones four years post surgery, have lost count of the number I've had since then but they do help. Pre-op they didn't make much difference- Mr Shackleford, Warrington Feb 2008 - Cervical TDR, (Activ C's) C5/6 & C6/7- Mr Shackleford, Warrington May 2006 - Craniotomy and resection frontal lobe brain tumour - The Walton Centre for Neurology and Neurosurgery Feb 2004 - Lumbar TDR, (ProDisc's) L4/5 & L5/S1 - Mr Shackleford, Warrington | |
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| Alastair | 11 May 2010, 04:01 PM Post #3 |
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Hi Mrs R, The advice I have for you is to get your tears over, get rid of all the aggression and regrets of the the past, and start and focus on something positive. It's not easy, and you've got to do a lot of mental press ups. I'm not saying "pull yourself together", I'm just saying to get these emotions out of the way before you tackle the next hurdle which is in front of you. I know you have it within your abilities to do this, think positively about Mr Shackleford and a second opinion. Very Best wishes, Alastair
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Founder of this board 24th February 2007 Slow and Steady Wins This Race Over 23 Years experience and research into spine surgery and over 2500 surgeries discussed and recorded ADR L5/S1 Surgery with Dr Zeegers 26th July 2002 in Munich 8 facet joint ablations 28 – 8 – 12 with Dr Baranidharan and Jake Timothy in Leeds Diagnosed Forestiers disease Your Best Asset Is Your Health I live in West Yorkshire aged 81 now Knowledge is power | |
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| ajj1001 | 11 May 2010, 04:09 PM Post #4 |
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What type of fusion did you have at L5/S1? it sounds like Mr lam is talking about adding a small amount of additional instrumentation at the lower level to stop L5 irritating the nerve. It must be gutting to need surgery again so soon but it does sound like a small op that might give you a good outcome. A second opinion sounds a really good idea and its not that long until the 1st of June. |
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Std Meds Gabapentin, MR Tramadol, Paracetemol, Laxatives 2011 Sept PLIF L4 - S1 2010 May Discogram L2/L3 & L3/L4 both looking ok. 2009 May PLG Fusion L5/S1 Charite in situ April Dismissed 2008 Caudal Epidural failed to work 2007 Deterioration L5/S1 Facet arthritis, Loss of disc height. 2004 Returned to Work 2002 Aug - physio March 2 level ADR Charite L4/5, L5/S1 2000 Broadbased disc prolapses L4/5, L5/S1 | |
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| Mrs R | 11 May 2010, 04:25 PM Post #5 |
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Alison, I had an anterior fusion with a hyperlordotic cage with BMP. Lynda thank you for the info re sarahp, I have sent her a message. The screws would be at L5 level only as my ADR at L4/5 seems ok as far as we can tell. I am googling trying to find the experiences of others but can't seem to find anything useful. And you know how scary trawling the internet can be. |
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2004-05 After 12 yrs of serious competitive sport, degeneration and tears L5/S1 and L4/5. 6 wks off work and went back p/t only. Told too young for surgery at 31 and that it probably won't help 2005-09 Dorsal root ganglion/steroid injections, amitriptyline, physio, osteopath, pilates and swimming 4 times per wk, back to working f/t 2009 Pain worse, saw Mr Lam at Guys. MRI: further degeneration in both discs and tear in L4/5. Discogram May 2009 14 Jan 2010 ADR L4/5, fusion L5/S1 by Mr Lam | |
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| dalhousie | 11 May 2010, 05:06 PM Post #6 |
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Sorry to hear these ongoing problems you have may result in further surgery. You run at such a low ebb after major surgery - I think I'd have a good blub myself. After that I'd try & think positively & constructively. Getting a 2nd opinion is a good idea & Mr S has a large fan base here. If it's a keyhole op it sounds a smaller procedure so that is something to hang on to. Thinking of you. Ruth x |
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2005 Anterior fusion L1/2 with BMP & floating rib removed. 2009 ADR (activ L) L4/5. 2010 Chronic pain from Facet Joints T10-L2 with lots of muscle pain 2013 Attended Walton PM Programme: not much help. 2014 Chronic Pain - Facet Joints L4-S1 2017 Nevro SCS for thoraco-lumbar & lower lumbar facet joint pain | |
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| Mrs R | 11 May 2010, 05:53 PM Post #7 |
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Thanks Ruth. I have calmed down a bit now but still have to tell my parents, family etc which will probably set me off again, my Dad will be aghast. I've had a very quick reply from sarahp and her experience is reassuring, she was pleased with the outcome of her surgery. I know our circumstances may not be exactly the same but it was very comforting to hear about her recovery. Thank you so much Lynda for remembering her. |
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2004-05 After 12 yrs of serious competitive sport, degeneration and tears L5/S1 and L4/5. 6 wks off work and went back p/t only. Told too young for surgery at 31 and that it probably won't help 2005-09 Dorsal root ganglion/steroid injections, amitriptyline, physio, osteopath, pilates and swimming 4 times per wk, back to working f/t 2009 Pain worse, saw Mr Lam at Guys. MRI: further degeneration in both discs and tear in L4/5. Discogram May 2009 14 Jan 2010 ADR L4/5, fusion L5/S1 by Mr Lam | |
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| dalhousie | 11 May 2010, 07:29 PM Post #8 |
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Chin up. We're all here to support you.
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2005 Anterior fusion L1/2 with BMP & floating rib removed. 2009 ADR (activ L) L4/5. 2010 Chronic pain from Facet Joints T10-L2 with lots of muscle pain 2013 Attended Walton PM Programme: not much help. 2014 Chronic Pain - Facet Joints L4-S1 2017 Nevro SCS for thoraco-lumbar & lower lumbar facet joint pain | |
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| Mrs R | 11 May 2010, 07:36 PM Post #9 |
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When I said earlier I'd had a "quick reply" from sarahp what I meant was, she replied after a short time. In actual fact she's now kindly sent me 2 detailed messages which have given me a small amount of hope. Every case is different I know but hers and your support is keeping me going, thank you. |
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2004-05 After 12 yrs of serious competitive sport, degeneration and tears L5/S1 and L4/5. 6 wks off work and went back p/t only. Told too young for surgery at 31 and that it probably won't help 2005-09 Dorsal root ganglion/steroid injections, amitriptyline, physio, osteopath, pilates and swimming 4 times per wk, back to working f/t 2009 Pain worse, saw Mr Lam at Guys. MRI: further degeneration in both discs and tear in L4/5. Discogram May 2009 14 Jan 2010 ADR L4/5, fusion L5/S1 by Mr Lam | |
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| Mrs R | 14 May 2010, 06:55 PM Post #10 |
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Went to see my osteopath today. Been seeing him since 2005 but I only go once or twice a year. He cheered me up when I said my surgery had been a disaster by saying the structure of my back is definitely better and that previously, areas of my back much higher up than the injured discs were showing signs of stress and strain and now all that has gone. Very pleased to hear that. Anyhow he offered a suggestion to try before risking more surgery. He said some people have huge inflammatory responses for some reason and that even though the steroid injection didn't calm the nerve, it was worth trying anti inflammatory suppositories. He said they circulate in the blood and reach the spine before the liver so you get a much more effective dose than if you take them in tablet form, plus they dont irritate the stomach. He said if they helped it would be apparent in 2-3 weeks. At this point I will try everything so am going to ask GP next week. Suppositories eh! |
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2004-05 After 12 yrs of serious competitive sport, degeneration and tears L5/S1 and L4/5. 6 wks off work and went back p/t only. Told too young for surgery at 31 and that it probably won't help 2005-09 Dorsal root ganglion/steroid injections, amitriptyline, physio, osteopath, pilates and swimming 4 times per wk, back to working f/t 2009 Pain worse, saw Mr Lam at Guys. MRI: further degeneration in both discs and tear in L4/5. Discogram May 2009 14 Jan 2010 ADR L4/5, fusion L5/S1 by Mr Lam | |
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| Lynda | 17 May 2010, 08:27 PM Post #11 |
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Hi there Mrs R I'm glad your osteopath has cheered you up and hope the anti-inflammatories make a difference to the pain you are feeling. I am also pleased Sarah replied and has reassured you, she has been very supportive to members here in the past and I hope life is treating her well. Take care Lynda |
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May 2008 onwards - Lumbar facet injections - First post-op ones four years post surgery, have lost count of the number I've had since then but they do help. Pre-op they didn't make much difference- Mr Shackleford, Warrington Feb 2008 - Cervical TDR, (Activ C's) C5/6 & C6/7- Mr Shackleford, Warrington May 2006 - Craniotomy and resection frontal lobe brain tumour - The Walton Centre for Neurology and Neurosurgery Feb 2004 - Lumbar TDR, (ProDisc's) L4/5 & L5/S1 - Mr Shackleford, Warrington | |
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| Gilly | 18 May 2010, 03:46 PM Post #12 |
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Hi Mrs R So sorry to hear that you are having such a lot of problems since your surgery, I really feel for you, it must be so disappointing. Sincerely hope that your osteopath's suggestions work for you. Thinking about you. Love Gilly xx |
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1990 MRI - disc protrusions levels 4/5 - fusion offered but declined due to poor prognosis. 2007 MRI - disc protrusions Level 4/5 level5/S1 2010 2 level lumbar ADR Mr Ian Shackleford Warrington General 2010 MRI - disc protrusions at levels C4/5 C5/6 2011 27 June 2 level Cervical ADR Mr S at Spire (on NHS) | |
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| Alastair | 18 May 2010, 05:47 PM Post #13 |
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A lot of medication in Europe is in suppository form, you just needed someone to think of it. It just shows that different professions have ideas others don`t relate to. I hope they work and get to the b****m of your problem and make things easier Best Alastair
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Founder of this board 24th February 2007 Slow and Steady Wins This Race Over 23 Years experience and research into spine surgery and over 2500 surgeries discussed and recorded ADR L5/S1 Surgery with Dr Zeegers 26th July 2002 in Munich 8 facet joint ablations 28 – 8 – 12 with Dr Baranidharan and Jake Timothy in Leeds Diagnosed Forestiers disease Your Best Asset Is Your Health I live in West Yorkshire aged 81 now Knowledge is power | |
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| ajj1001 | 18 May 2010, 09:07 PM Post #14 |
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Just check that you are ok to take post fusion as I was told not to take ibuprofen etc as it interfered with bone growth. I know anti inflammatories in a gel can also affect your stomach so I have avoided them as well.but I don't about suppositories. Glad that the osteopath has reassured you about your back. |
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Std Meds Gabapentin, MR Tramadol, Paracetemol, Laxatives 2011 Sept PLIF L4 - S1 2010 May Discogram L2/L3 & L3/L4 both looking ok. 2009 May PLG Fusion L5/S1 Charite in situ April Dismissed 2008 Caudal Epidural failed to work 2007 Deterioration L5/S1 Facet arthritis, Loss of disc height. 2004 Returned to Work 2002 Aug - physio March 2 level ADR Charite L4/5, L5/S1 2000 Broadbased disc prolapses L4/5, L5/S1 | |
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| Mrs R | 19 May 2010, 09:10 AM Post #15 |
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Hmmm GP didn't mention anything abou it interfering with bone growth and there's no way to check with Mr Lam until I have my next follow up - which is in 6 months time, unless I decide to have the surgery! I have been given enough diclofenac for 3 weeks and will try it for that long, don't suppose it can do too much harm in that time. But thanks for the tip Alison. |
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2004-05 After 12 yrs of serious competitive sport, degeneration and tears L5/S1 and L4/5. 6 wks off work and went back p/t only. Told too young for surgery at 31 and that it probably won't help 2005-09 Dorsal root ganglion/steroid injections, amitriptyline, physio, osteopath, pilates and swimming 4 times per wk, back to working f/t 2009 Pain worse, saw Mr Lam at Guys. MRI: further degeneration in both discs and tear in L4/5. Discogram May 2009 14 Jan 2010 ADR L4/5, fusion L5/S1 by Mr Lam | |
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