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Limiting immigration..?; This man certainly thinks so
Topic Started: Nov 20 2004, 07:01 AM (224 Views)
Bobcatkitty
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Queen Mum
This is truly and interesting article. Personally, I think he's saying what many are thinking, but afraid to say. 3flame away if you're so inclined.



11-19) 11:36 PST THE HAGUE, Netherlands (AP) --

One of the most popular politicians in the Netherlands said Friday the country's democracy is under threat and called for a five-year halt to non-Western immigration in the wake of the killing of a Dutch filmmaker by a suspected Muslim radical.

"We are a Dutch democratic society. We have our own norms and values," right-wing lawmaker Geert Wilders told The Associated Press in an interview. "If you chose radical Islam you can leave, and if you don't leave voluntarily then we will send you away. This is the only message possible."

In his first interview with the foreign media since the slaying of filmmaker Theo van Gogh on Nov. 2, Wilders said his own life has been repeatedly threatened. He said he has begun living under state protection and has even had to stay away from his own home.

Wilders split with the free-market coalition partner Liberal Party two months ago because it backed the candidacy of predominantly Muslim Turkey for the European Union.

He formed his own conservative party, the Wilders Group, which has one seat in the 150-member parliament. But a recent poll suggested his anti-immigrant message was reverberating through the electorate, and he would win 24 seats if elections were held today -- up from 19 seats before Van Gogh's murder.

Wilders said that without swift, bold action, Islamic fundamentalism will topple the country's democratic system.

"The Netherlands has been too tolerant to intolerant people for too long," he said. "We should not import a retarded political Islamic society to our country. There is nothing to be ashamed of to say this. It's not Islam. I speak out against the facts."

In Brussels, Belgium, European Union leaders met Friday to discuss immigration, one of Europe's most pressing and sensitive issues. EU justice and interior ministers agreed to demand that new immigrants learn the language of their adopted countries and adhere to "European values" to guide them toward better integration.

Even as the number of immigrants arriving in Europe falls due to tougher policies, led by a sharp drop in the Netherlands, Wilders said closing the borders isn't enough. Newcomers should be forced to integrate.

"If in a mosque there is recruitment for jihad, it's not a house of prayer, it's a house of war. If it's not a house of prayer, it should be closed down," he said.

Wilders, known for his radical positions and peroxide-blond hair, has been a member of parliament since 1998. He was born and educated in the southern city Venlo, near the German border.

"I'm very tough on radical Islam. I have the toughest ideas on beating this problem and I'm proud of it. I say nothing wrong. I'm no racist, no anti-Islamist," he said.

Wilders and the police took the death threats more seriously following the slaying of Van Gogh, who had produced a television drama critical of how women are treated in some Muslim societies. The filmmaker was shot and stabbed to death, allegedly by a 26-year-old suspected Islamic extremist who holds Dutch and Moroccan citizenship.

The most recent threats were disclosed when two terror suspects, arrested Nov. 10 after a standoff in which several policemen were wounded by a hand grenade, were charged with threatening Wilders and other politicians, their lawyer said.

The latest video threat broadcast on the Internet -- in Dutch, with Arabic music in the background -- condemns Wilders for insulting Islam and offers the reward of paradise for his beheading.

Wilders' style and cause are reminiscent of Pim Fortuyn, a flamboyant political outsider who put immigration on the national agenda before the 2002 elections. Fortuyn was shot to death by an animal rights activist days before the vote, but major parties since have largely embraced his ideas.

Wilders said he is not opposed to mainstream Islam but is concerned by studies saying 10 percent of the Dutch Muslim population -- or about 100,000 people -- support radical Islamic views.

He cited a report by Dutch intelligence saying recruitment for jihad, or holy war, is taking place in as many as 20 mosques in the Netherlands, and said they should be closed and their imams, or preachers, arrested and deported.

"If we don't do anything ... we will lose the country that we have known for centuries. People don't want the Netherlands to be lost, and this is something that I get angry about and I am going to fight for, to keep the country Dutch," he said.



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Mainecoons
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Keeper of the Royal Cattery
Quote:
 
"The Netherlands has been too tolerant to intolerant people for too long," he said. "We should not import a retarded political Islamic society to our country."


AMEN! This applies to all of us. We do not need more population and we sure as hell don't need these people. I wish we had spent our $200 billion bucks securing North America rather than on this futile attempt to turn a bunch of 14th century wackos into a civilized society. It's a big ocean and we need to start using it.

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Millsfamily
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Right on! I wish Germany would adopt that attitude as well!
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ImaHeadaU
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Contrarian of the Realm
Bobcatkitty
Nov 20 2004, 07:01 AM
Geert Wilders ... "I'm no racist, no anti-Islamist," he said.

There are those in Holland who disagree.

"Wilders is unashamedly anti-Islam. Murdered populist Like Pim Fortuyn – a man he is often compared with – he describes Muslims as backward in terms of their political culture. Muslims, he says, must adhere to Western norms and values because these come from a "higher, better, nicer and more human civilization."Expatica

We should take care not to throw the baby out with the bath water. Not all Muslims are fundamentalist, extremist terrorists.
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Mainecoons
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Keeper of the Royal Cattery
Enough of them are I see no reason to sort them. It doesn't matter who thinks their culture is superior, us or them. What matters is the cultures mix like oil and water and there is, at best, a tacit hatred of the west and acceptance of terrorism among most of Islam. Now that we're looking for it, we're finding a bunch of supposedly U.S. citizen Islamics giving money and support to terrorist organizations that are killing our troops and other westerners.

If you want them in Canada, take them, but don't be surprised if they start blowing you up too. You're pretty decadent by their 14th century standard.

You are one guy who lives in a fantasy world, that is for sure.
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Happy Traveler
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Wanderer of the Realm
Mainecoons
Nov 20 2004, 08:39 AM
Quote:
 
"The Netherlands has been too tolerant to intolerant people for too long," he said. "We should not import a retarded political Islamic society to our country."


AMEN! This applies to all of us. We do not need more population and we sure as hell don't need these people. I wish we had spent our $200 billion bucks securing North America rather than on this futile attempt to turn a bunch of 14th century wackos into a civilized society. It's a big ocean and we need to start using it.

Amen
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beddows
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It depends on how you look at it. Historically, human populations have always migrated to greener pastures & if you look at in those terms, that is exactly what is happening here. Attempts to limit immigration will likely be transitory at best, it's fighting the natural order of things. Populations have always displaced other populations. We all like things to stay the same, but ultimately they always change. All we can do is slow the process down.
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ImaHeadaU
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Mainecoons
Nov 20 2004, 12:22 PM
Now that we're looking for it, we're finding a bunch of supposedly U.S. citizen Islamics giving money and support to terrorist organizations that are killing our troops and other westerners.

Nothing new about that. Remember all the U.S. dollars that were shipped over to Ireland to support the IRA?
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Mainecoons
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Keeper of the Royal Cattery
Hey Paul, if you don't let 'em get off a plane or boat, you think maybe they'll swim here? Get real. This group is easily excluded and should be.

Ima, IRA wasn't killing U.S. troops. Understand the difference? That's not to excuse the Irish who gave money to the IRA. Ironically, just like the current crop of terrorists, the IRA killed a lot more Irish than they did British. A lot of blood on the hands of the Kennedys here, among others.

I'd love to see a poll as to how many Canadians support both your extreme viewpoints. I'd be willing to bet a big majority of your countrymen would just as soon not have these immigrants.

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Happy Traveler
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Wanderer of the Realm
I just wish we would wise up(United States) before it's to late. Were just getting to many people over here that want us to conform to there culture. Just like the big department stores. Some of the old timers that are still there, not many anymore. Tells me they don't have Christmas parties or any kind of traditonal events. Right now there catering to the Muslim employee's and there fuctions what ever that is. The old timers said they just go out to lunch or do something different when they celebrate at work.
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Happy Traveler
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Wanderer of the Realm
Beddows,

I really don't have sympathy like you have with the muslims. How would you like to have a 9-11 in Canada. How would you feel seeing a bunch of Muslims clapping and cheering right after it happened. How would you feel some muslims were informed to get out before 9-11. I don't think there here because they love America.
:911
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beddows
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I certainly don't have sympathy for the type of Muslims you describe, however you have to be careful not to tar everyone with the same brush. That is like blaming all Christians because of Timothy McVie. We have had similar problems here with Sikh terrorists (the Air India disaster was conceived & the bombs planted in Vancouver). However, most of that group are as good a citizens as you & I. The key is to screen people coming in & their backgrounds, better.
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ImaHeadaU
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Mainecoons
Nov 20 2004, 01:41 PM
I'd love to see a poll as to how many Canadians support both your extreme viewpoints. I'd be willing to bet a big majority of your countrymen would just as soon not have these immigrants.

Then you would apparently be wrong. Canada accepts a much higher level of immigration per capita than does the U.S.. These new immigrants on average become productive Canadians and contribute more to the economy of Canada than average Canadians do.

"Despite a brief upsurge of opinion in favour of accepting fewer immigrants immediately following the attacks, Canadians are currently quite open to immigration as the results of this recently released survey from the Centre for Research and Information on Canada (CRIC) show.

Most Canadians (56%) feel the country should keep accepting the same level of immigrants as it currently does. Eighteen percent say it should accept more. "Opinion Canada
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SPIKEFISH
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Wish one of our leading politicians would say the same about our southern borders. Neither Bush nor Kerry would address the issue. The Dems want the votes, and the Reps want the cheap labor. Neither one of them really give a damn about the average American.

Unless you live in one of the southern border states, you really can't comprehend the seriousness of the Mexican invasion. Yes, it is an invasion!

Oh, well. If I can just live long enough I'll become a minority, and get at the public trough. In the future being a male WASP may get me on the gravy train.

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beddows
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Pretty hard to stop what's coming up from the south. Best way to fix that would be to help ensure Mexico keeps developing into a 1st world country itelf, then the problem will disappear on its own. I dont' think anything is likely to stop the US from becoming a largely Hispanic country by mid century. Better start brushing up on that Spanish. I suppose you can look at it as regaining territory they had a couple of hundred years ago.
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Mainecoons
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That wasn't my point, IMA. I question how many of these Islamic a**holes Canadians would like to accept. I'll bet zero.

That's spot on, Paul. Both the U.S. and Canada have a lot to win if we spend our time and money working with Mexico to bring it up. A whole lot better expenditure than on those Arab a**holes.

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slobote
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Realm Ferrymaster
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Nov 20 2004, 01:52 PM


How would you feel seeing a bunch of Muslims clapping and cheering right after it happened.  . 



Those people clapping and shouting were not muslims, but Israeli's who were arrested and investigated before being deported to Israel.

Like the hell's angel's say "if you cannot tell a good muslim from a bad one, kill them all and let god sort it out.
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ImaHeadaU
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Mainecoons
Nov 20 2004, 08:35 PM
I question how many of these Islamic a**holes Canadians would like to accept. I'll bet zero.

Not knowing exactly which Muslims you would discribe as "Islamic a**holes," I won't try to answer your question. However, so long as the potential Muslim immigrants pass the criteria for immigrating into Canada which includes having a clean criminal record among many other things, they would be accepted by Canada as would any other potential immigrant. It is not easy for anyone to immigrate into Canada and the process often takes many years before the applicant knows his fate one way or the other.

Most Canadians seem to be happy with this process since it is rarely raised as an issue at election time. The Refugee claiming system is less well thought of, however. It doesn't seem to work as well or as fast as most would like. Still most refugee claimants enter Canada from the U.S.. Assuming the increased focus put on border security by both the U.S. and Canada will tighten those flood gates, the number of refugee claiments should get smaller as we go forward.
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Motobu
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Baroness of Gundi, Guard of the Realm
I found this while searching for a definition of "Jihad". In all truthfulness, I don't know what to believe anymore.


"First, Jihad is clearly a major doctrine of the religion of Islam. It is sometimes called the "sixth pillar of Islam." Its founder, Muhammad, stated that Jihad was the second most important thing in Islam (Bukhari, vol. 1, no. 25).

Second, Jihad is commanded in the Qur'an and in the Hadith. There are so many references to this fact that this is beyond all doubt.

Third, it is the moral duty of all Muslims to participate in Jihad. Any Muslims who says otherwise is voicing his personal opinion and not the official teaching of the religion of Islam.

Fourth, in its non-violent form, Jihad means to strive with all your might against such temptations as alcohol, and for the conversion of non-Muslims to Islam. In non-violent forms of Jihad, people are encouraged to convert to Islam or to return to Islam by gifts of money, the promise of a job or university education, sexual favors, intimidation, the distribution of tracts, books, tapes and videos promoting Islam, the promise of protection from rape in prison, etc.

Fifth, in its violent form, Jihad has been invoked to justify every act of terrorism imaginable. Waging war on a nation such as Israel or the United States is Jihad. The blowing up school buses filled with children, bombing public transportation such as buses, trains, and planes, the killing of clergymen of other faiths, the murder of authors who speak out against Islam, the kidnapping and rape of women, the enslavement of non-Muslims, the assassination of political and religious figures, bombing buildings such as apartment houses and churches, gang rape, the looting of homes, businesses, cities and nations, the burning down of neighborhoods and cities, the use of chemical and biological warfare against civilian populations, putting people in jail for criticizing Islam, torturing them and mutilating their bodies, etc.

But what if you run across a Muslim who says that Islam is a religion of peace and that Islam does not teach or practice violent forms of Jihad? They are either ignorant of what Islam officially teaches or they are trying to deceive you. Either way, they are "apostates" because they have rejected the teaching of the Qur'an and the Hadith on Jihad.

- by Dr. Robert Morey in The Islamic Doctrine of Jihad "
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Mainecoons
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Quote:
 
But what if you run across a Muslim who says that Islam is a religion of peace and that Islam does not teach or practice violent forms of Jihad? They are either ignorant of what Islam officially teaches or they are trying to deceive you. Either way, they are "apostates" because they have rejected the teaching of the Qur'an and the Hadith on Jihad.

Like I said, we don't need to import this philosophy or the people who hold it. You can dance around in your left-wing delusion all you want but the bottom line is that Islam IS a violent religion and philosophy which is exactly why you hear basically NO Islamics speaking out against it.

These so called immigrants are not interested in adopting our culture they are here to destroy it. Wise up!


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Motobu
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Baroness of Gundi, Guard of the Realm
"Sun Rising from the West, Pre-existence of Prophet Muhammad, Ghusl Janabah. Q 1. Prophet Muhammad -peace be upon him- is reported to have said that one of the signs of the "last days" will be the sun rising in the West."

In an online conversation with a Muslim convert, he told me that many Muslims believe this "Sun rising in the west" is the mass move and conversion of Islam to the western nation....The United States. If they feel the last days are upon them, it would explain why so many are striving to assure themselves a place in heaven with their wide eyed virgins. Martyrdom is the only true way to gain entrance to heaven. Otherwise its a life long checklist of good and evil done throughout the lifetime. Whichever side the balace of this scale tips to, determines their place after death. Many young people are so tormented with not knowing where they stand with Allah that they make sure they are in his good graces by killing themselves and trying to take at least one "infidel" with them.



From the Qur'an:

… If someone kills another person—unless it is in retaliation for someone else or for causing corruption in the earth—it is as if he had murdered all mankind. And if anyone gives life to another person, it is as if he had given life to all mankind. Our Messengers came to them with Clear Signs, but even after that, many of them committed outrages in the earth. (Qur’an, 5:32)


That leaves the lives of millions of us open to their interpretation. Yes Islam is a religion of peace, but only for those whom THEY deem worthy.
Their main focus is converting Christians and Jews. You can buy your way to saftey by converting and handing over money and possessions. Sounds eerily similar to a mafia.


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