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The Good Child
Topic Started: May 21 2010, 06:24 PM (609 Views)
Paulie_V
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I was just watching this one with the girlfriend and she pointed out something to me which I'd not noticed before, but which fits in with one of her shipper theories -

At the very end when Bobby is comforting the daughter who has now lost two sets of parents, the adopted ones having been murdered by the natural ones, and the daughter is blaming herself, he says "you did nothing wrong. Like any child, he wants to know where he came from." GF swears that Alex (who is standing by the door waiting for him), gives a wistful look.

If Bobby had said to the girl "you wanted to know where you came from", it would have made more contextual sense. But he said "he". Why?

Thoughts?

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bogoalexea
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It's funny 'cause uni. brought this subject up sometime ago on the season 4 thread, I think.

I told her I don't think Eames' expression really meant anything but now Idk anymore :blink:
I mean why would Bobby say that about himself? At the time, I doubt he ever considered the possibility of him being the son of another... Frank was favored over him, he just didn't know why. All he could do was torture himself (like Eames put it).

This subject I've navigated to, reminds me of "Mad Hops" (really love that ep btw) where we learn that Bobby started to play basket ball to get his father's attention. He was just a kid. Though Bobby tends to blame himself for things, kids often point the finger at themselves...
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Paulie_V
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Girlfriend's shipper theory involves something about Eames son/nephew.

She's always trying to find a way to make Bobby the father. Or the want-to-be father. Or not thrilled about surrogacy. Or not happy about 'losing' Eames for a year. It's complicated.

And no, she's not crazy. Really she's not. (she'll hit me when she finds out I even posted this because she's seen how people have gotten pounced on elsewhere for thinking this)
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unicorn
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Paulie_V
May 23 2010, 08:28 PM
Girlfriend's shipper theory involves something about Eames son/nephew. 

She's always trying to find a way to make Bobby the father.  Or the want-to-be father.  Or not thrilled about surrogacy.  Or not happy about 'losing' Eames for a year.  It's complicated.

And no, she's not crazy.  Really she's not.  (she'll hit me when she finds out I even posted this because she's seen how people have gotten pounced on elsewhere for thinking this)



the gf and i have the same brain. there are a lot of strange inferences, as far as Eames' son / nephew is concerned, (unplanned pregnancy or deliberate pregnancy? at this moment, only 'privilege' comes to mind, but aren't their other eps with 'single mother' shtuff??) i'm tempted to conclude 'baby Goren'
--except for the whole schizophrenia thing.
he takes that pretty seriously. so i just can't see him letting that happen.
and that Alex Eames isn't the sort of person who loses control of any facet of her life, especially not her reproductive life. (you don't get where she is being sloppy about things ... )

but imhso if they were, say, 'fraternizing,' and an 'oops' happened, and she decided she needed to, say, give the 'unexpected blessing' to a loving family member to care for, every evidence in canon says he's man enough to respect that. (rather than make a fuss, launch a paternity suit, or the like.)

and we're rabid shippers here ...
well, i'm a rabid shipper. if she was in a jam (as she'd say) he'd offer to be an honourable gentleman for her (in a hot minute). the material of fanfictions yet written ...

regardless, this comment in 'the good child' definitely had me going 'hmmmm ... wtf was that?'

(EGG CUP!)


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Paulie_V
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Phew! You just spared me a minor, although I'm sure loving, beating. There are indeed several episodes that have "hmmm" moments and comments about single mothers and/or pregnancy.

I also think that probably every intimate relationship has "oopses". It's just the nature of passion sometimes. Just about every one of my buddies has, at some time during his oat sowing years (which a lot of them are still in), spent a hand-wringing morning/afternoon/day waiting for the results of an EPT.

Most of them, even with the best laid plans (no pun intended) don't know what they'll do until they get the results.

~~~

About BA:

Various scenarios:

If Eames' sister asked her to be a surrogate mother and she was willing, then so be it, what a great thing.

If Eames' sister had been discussing adoption, lets say, and Eames accidentally got pregnant and wanted to continue her career, ... and they agree on the 'surrogate parentage' angle/idea; then so be it, what a great thing.

As for Bobby taking schizophrenia seriously, you bet, but he also wants a child. We often see how good he is with them. He would have been a loving, doting father. What cements for me that he would/could have a 'baby Goren' is his simple comment to Nicole Wallace "don't count me out yet."
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bogoalexea
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Paulie_V
May 23 2010, 03:28 PM
Girlfriend's shipper theory involves something about Eames son/nephew.


Yes, duh!... stupid me <_< I mean, that's what uni. actually talked about on the other thread.

I see what the two of you are talking about here. And when you connect this possibility to Eames expression in "The Good Child" it IS wtf really :blink: But again that would just never come to mind on my own!

I definitely must agree that he'd be a GREAT father, however his insecurities (fear of become like "his father" or just screwing up somehow) and how he takes schizophrenia seriously (quoting uni here) make his father dreams remain as such: just dreams. I don't think he was/is looking forward to having kids.
Nevertheless, I must agree, there could of totally been an "oops" moment sometime along season 2 ('cause by "A Person of Interest" I think her belly was starting to show a little...)

And I always thought that Eames offered to do it for her sister... I mean that's one hell of a favor to ask :blink: But since we're kinda in the dark when it comes to Eames' family maybe her sister did have the guts to ask her such a gift. Well, who knows?
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Paulie_V
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One of the other episodes that makes me wonder about Bobby's willingness to take a paternal chance is Cold Comfort - the one where the son inherits early onset Alzheimer's (where they freeze the guys brain so they can use it for finding a cure), and Eames makes a comment along the lines of "what woman would ever take a chance?". Bobby looks awful when she says that. Like he's upset with her statement. He's thinking about it, I tell ya.


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unicorn
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Paulie_V
May 23 2010, 10:03 PM
Phew!  You just spared me a minor, although I'm sure loving, beating.  There are indeed several episodes that have "hmmm" moments and comments about single mothers and/or pregnancy.

I also think that probably every intimate relationship has "oopses".  It's just the nature of passion sometimes.  Just about every one of my buddies has, at some time during his oat sowing years (which a lot of them are still in), spent a hand-wringing morning/afternoon/day waiting for the results of an EPT.

Most of them, even with the best laid plans (no pun intended) don't know what they'll do until they get the results. 

~~~

About BA:

Various scenarios:

If Eames' sister asked her to be a surrogate mother and she was willing, then so be it, what a great thing.

If Eames' sister had been discussing adoption, lets say, and Eames accidentally got pregnant and wanted to continue her career, ... and they agree on the 'surrogate parentage' angle/idea; then so be it, what a great thing.

As for Bobby taking schizophrenia seriously, you bet, but he also wants a child.  We often see how good he is with them.  He would have been a loving, doting father.  What cements for me that he would/could have a 'baby Goren' is his simple comment to Nicole Wallace "don't count me out yet."

LOL - beating ... (snort snort) that's very funny to me. :lol: nope, no flaming or obnoxiousness here ... unless it's unintentional. and I KNOW that i am often opinionated and am pushy about my opinions. i'm hoping that's okay as long as my opinion is "B/A always and forever!" and if i annoy or upset somebody, i hope everybody feels like they can pm me and say 'hey unicorn, yer horn's maybe on too tight ... or a little loose' (as the case may be.)
i was just thinking how much i love this place precisely because of that sort-of thing.

'cause i'm going "AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!" right now. i responded to a query on lj (bodacia - who i think is awesome - posts most awesome questions on 'goren and eames') and now i'm fielding emails from folks who've expressed potent dislike for me elsewhere ... yikes :o i thought we were just commenting on bodacia's question, not responding to each other's comments because we don't agree with each other. :( i don't want to argue with noromos about what i think / see / feel about criminal intent. that's why i left the usaboard.
i think i'm staying home from now on!

tell gf -- i think the most outlandish and unlikely theories are welcome here.

and i actually happen to have come to the same conclusion on my own. it's in the story from the start. ie in 'seizure' -- the conversation they have at their desks while / after reading the correspondences between Kevin Riddick and his groupie 'Karen' (same actor is 'Carrie' in 'Faithfully') causes me to almost fall from my chair every time.
put an even slightly different tone of voice on anything they say there and you've got a completely different scene.
which i find really interesting. on early svu episodes, the characters are often involved in adult-oriented, heavy-innuendo conversations in the break room and in the bullpen. especially Munch, Cassidy and Jeffries.
same writers, directors, etc.

just sayin'...

i'm glad you brought this up, Paulie (and thank the gf too).
as a topic, it connects to these leftover ideas we all seem to have about Eames and everything we don't know about her life. most of which we've unwittingly allowed the noromos to fill in for us ... like the 'not having private-life communication with Bobby' thing.


Bo - i think you're right -- who knows??? i don't think we have any idea why Eames had a child for her sister aside from the fact that one of the show's stars was having a baby. they never told us. (:angry: 'FOLIE A DEUX' and yes, i am still :angry:) she might have got pregnant by accident and given her child to her sister to raise. that is every bit as plausible as not, canon-wise.

RE: 'the good child' comment ...
because of the theme of the episode (a pair of long-term lovers who just haven't found a way to be together, an adopted child) i took Goren's comment here (imhso) to be an indication of his 'disapproval' of something that we ostensibly don't know about ... as in, her son / nephew ought to know that she's his mother as well as his aunt. and her response is an 'Eames is uncomfortable' tell. then, the end is so weird. no one-liner.

perhaps a list of 'WTF??' moments pertaining to her pregnancy could be started on the 'pregnancy' thread? this could be our first addition.

and Paulie, tell your gf that if she finds that evidence of parentage, do let me know. i'm there.
heck, they even picked out a name for their little one. Max is a nice name. can be 'Maxwell' or 'Maximilian,' or 'Maxine'. it's versatile.
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bogoalexea
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unicorn
May 23 2010, 09:58 PM
Bo - i think you're right -- who knows??? i don't think we have any idea why Eames had a child for her sister aside from the fact that one of the show's stars was having a baby. they never told us. (:angry: 'FOLIE A DEUX' and yes, i am still :angry:) she might have got pregnant by accident and given her child to her sister to raise. that is every bit as plausible as not, canon-wise.


Well, we do know presumably why she had the kid for her sister. I mean what other reason then "too weak (or just can't) carry her own child"? I don't mind that they let us hang on that one: not many options to choose from (I think). I know you have a certain theory on why her sister couldn't carry her own child uni-- the "m" word ;)

How she got pregnant? Yeah, we're still speculating on that one. Nevertheless, thanks to Nicole, we do know that her egg was used ("having eggs ripe and ready for hire"). Who fertilized it? We don't know but we do have an appealing theory :D
Before this discussion, I always assumed it was her brother-in-laws sperm (*yack*)
Oh and Paulie talking about Nicole, you see I always took Bobby's answer ("don't count me out yet") as him just trying to show her that he's not like her. Nicole was trying to put him at her level, remind him that they aren't that different (and yes, I think if Bobby wasn't on our side, he'd be a male 'Nicole Wallace'...).
As for the 'Cold Comfort' moment, well I'm gonna have to check that out again... can't remember Bobby's expression. But near the end of the ep we have Bobby saying to the Alzheimer victim "...you have a conscience, you wouldn't want to be playing Russian-roulette with your kids"... I think that's an insight right there...

And "Folie à Deux" is the first (and last) B/A ep that left me pissed off. I mean what a disappointment that was :angry: However, I kinda got over it. Nonetheless, (like right now) I do feel pangs of regret.


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perhaps a list of 'WTF??' moments pertaining to her pregnancy could be started on the 'pregnancy' thread? this could be our first addition.

Oh yeah, we need to do that B)
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Paulie_V
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I just re-watched Cold Comfort, and I must amend my earlier statement (that Bobby looked hurt at Eames pronouncement). Bobby did not look hurt when Eames said a woman would not want to take a chance. We don't even see his face as she says it and not for several seconds after. So I don't know where I got to thinking that. (I happily blame fanfic) :lol:

Also, at the end where he says the conscience thing, he does seem sincere about the Alzheimers. As far as it might relate to himself and schizophrenia, well, this is still in the time before Eames gets pregnant, so I will stick him in the category I put my oat sowing buddies - where you don't know what you'll really think until you get the results of the EPT.
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MaryE
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bogoalexea
May 24 2010, 10:04 AM
And "Folie à Deux" is the first (and last) B/A ep that left me pissed off. I mean what a disappointment that was :angry: However, I kinda got over it. Nonetheless, (like right now) I do feel pangs of regret.



I agree and I don't think we'll ever see that scene because the last two dvd sets haven't included any extras at all. I'm starting to wonder if they ever even shot it?
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unicorn
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MaryE
May 25 2010, 03:06 AM
bogoalexea
May 24 2010, 10:04 AM
And "Folie à Deux" is the first (and last) B/A ep that left me pissed off. I mean what a disappointment that was :angry: However, I kinda got over it. Nonetheless, (like right now) I do feel pangs of regret.



I agree and I don't think we'll ever see that scene because the last two dvd sets haven't included any extras at all. I'm starting to wonder if they ever even shot it?

must've. vdo's beard does that amazing grow-and-vanish thing. can't see them making a continuity mistake like that on purpose. screams of re-shot scenes.

:lol:

this is still 'the good child', right? we're hilarious!!
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bogoalexea
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Paulie_V
May 24 2010, 11:32 AM
Also, at the end where he says the conscience thing, he does seem sincere about the Alzheimers. As far as it might relate to himself and schizophrenia, well, this is still in the time before Eames gets pregnant, so I will stick him in the category I put my oat sowing buddies - where you don't know what you'll really think until you get the results of the EPT.

Yeah, I agree... I mean whether he wants to have kids or not, the "oops" could of still occurred ;)
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Paulie_V
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Or as my hardcore shipping girlfriend says (and now sort of myself too, I admit)... did happen. ;)

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bogoalexea
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Paulie_V
May 25 2010, 03:47 PM
Or as my hardcore shipping girlfriend says (and now sort of myself too, I admit)... did happen. ;)

Nice (lol) I'm still fence-riding (as usual) :rolleyes:
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