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| Tweet Topic Started: Apr 30 2010, 01:23 PM (852 Views) | |
| unicorn | Apr 30 2010, 01:23 PM Post #1 |
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dizzy know-it-all fan
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i've been wanting to chew over this one for awhile. it got brought up by another shipper somewhere, and when i find out who and where, i'll edit this post. the last line seems to be filled with layered meaning. i admit, i can't formulate a solid idea around what she says. i think i get why she's angry. does she mean Bobby talks too much? (she does, doesn't she?) thoughts? |
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| bogoalexea | Apr 30 2010, 03:30 PM Post #2 |
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Captain
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That's one of the final CI lines I don't fully get I mean where did that come from? It was funny though,lol. It's also hilarious how Bobby and Carver looked at each other! I doubt she was aiming the killer 'cause that Keith guy didn't have a talking problem from what I understood... Bobby? Why would she think that Goren talks too much? Or was she just aiming men in general because people like to say that women are the gossipers? idk,lol
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| MaryE | Apr 30 2010, 06:01 PM Post #3 |
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Captain
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Could Eames have identified with Jenny? This was a time when Bobby was still pretty suave (e.g. wearing expensive suits). Do you think she thought the things Bobby was saying to the perp about Jenny not being glamorous enough got to her? Like she was thinking maybe she wasn't glamorous enough for Bobby? Like it was an insecurity thing? |
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| unicorn | May 1 2010, 09:38 AM Post #4 |
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dizzy know-it-all fan
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i agree Mary (hi Mary! ) that Eames was strongly identifying with Jenny and her experience, being sexually harassed and frightened at work. so that tells us what about the NYPD as a work place? she was a vice cop. lots of chances for that kind of thing.some of her anger is genuine, some is played up for Keith's benefit. i like how you phrased this ... "Like she was thinking maybe she wasn't glamorous enough for Bobby? Like it was an insecurity thing?" and it's still 'wtf?' because i don't read Eames as 'insecure' but it's such a 'pregnant' moment. it's about something. she'd have no reason to feel 'too working class' for Bobby Goren. |
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| bogoalexea | May 1 2010, 12:50 PM Post #5 |
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Captain
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Wow You peeps come up with so many interesting ideas ![]() That would just never occur to me! As for the moment where Eames was opening up on Keith I just thought it was their good cop/bad cop rooting.... which it was however those feelings she was expressing were mostly likely real inside (we have a huge hint of that in "Masquerade"). |
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| unicorn | May 2 2010, 10:42 AM Post #6 |
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dizzy know-it-all fan
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in 'Masquerade'???? oooh! what do you mean, B??? i agree that some of her anger was 'good cop / bad cop' because if it was real, Bobby wouldn't have started talking to a suspect about it as though they were buddies. something i appreciate about Goren is that he is not a sexist male. (and that dude was in 'Oz'. he played Christopher Meloni's lover.) |
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| bogoalexea | May 2 2010, 02:31 PM Post #7 |
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Captain
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I'm gonna be invisible for a couple of days fellow peeps; I have finals to prepare... But I'll probably reading stuff though :rolleyes: About my "Masquerade" mention, Remember that rookie cop who screwed up Beth's daughter's investigation? Well, Eames said that at the academy (I think... I need to re-watch that ep soon) they used her (the rookie cop) as an example to show how women can't be cops (it was something to women's detriment). After that rookie explained to them what happened (in Beth's place), when she left, Eames said something close to "She was just trying to prove herself but she made things harder on the rest of us" ('us' meaning women)... So yeah, that's what I was thinking of ![]() P.S. I read your "Vanishing Act" thread... I have a few thoughts in mind but I gotta go I'll be back Thursday
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| eamesfreak | May 3 2010, 05:00 PM Post #8 |
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Captain
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yeah just watched Baggage. that last line of hers makes little to zero sense. I'm sure she's talking about Bobby. ... hmm... I just thought of this: maybe she's saying that she's tired of him "talking too much" about their relationship, in sub-text/parallel/undercover language. That scene at the bar, where she gets all pissed and walks away (partially good cop/bad cop acting??) and a few other places make me think that she's aware he's comparing her to the female airport worker; like, heavily. And he does this type of thing often. The parallel drawn between their relationship and that of the other characters is usually his doing. Sure, it helps them get the bad guy, but he very often goes above and beyond what needs to be done - in terms of revealing anecdotes of his dynamic with Eames - to get them to confess, . Maybe she's sick of it. It embarrasses her a bit perhaps, having their relationship just sprawled out like that for the perp, and usually Captain & Carver in the other room listening. idk. the others are all kinda oblivious to it i think at this point in the series, but she's aware of it. Why would that make you uncomfortable, Alex??? huh?? oh, that's right: you LOOOOOOOOOOVVVVE him! ![]() She's essentially saying: "You talk too much about us. Cryptic or not, just shut up about it. It's no one else's business." |
![]() ![]() "...your words were like bolts of sunshine." ~ Kathryn Erbe, on the CI Binder Project | |
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| Paulie_V | May 3 2010, 08:30 PM Post #9 |
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He was also in the movie "Bark" with D'Onofrio. I really liked that movie. If you haven't seen it, I highly recommend it. |
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| eamesfreak | Feb 8 2011, 12:08 AM Post #10 |
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Captain
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hmm, hmm, hmm. I'm not sure I feel the exact same about this as I did when I wrote that last post... almost a year ago... WHEW times flies! I still don't understand her comment at the end. I asked my hubby what his impression was and he said "i dunno" w. t. heck. other thoughts: -> name repeats: Frank, Tate. -> quote - Bobby to Walter Tate: "Loyalty counts for something" -> interesting parallel stuff going on, in terms of "women in the workplace", harassment, class, etc as already mentioned. I also saw this time, the usual Alex-gettin' extra riled up about a woman being abused thing. I know anytime there's a horrible crime they both get riled up. But there's just something about these crimes in particular that make her fume. She raises her voice to Carver, pushing him to see the case their way. She doesn't raise her voice too often, to colleagues. -> some more on that "insecurity" theory for what the end comment means: So, the whole pick from these 2 lawyers thing was sorta a set up, correct? anyway, Ramsey picks the "classy lady". when they get to the point where Goren dumps out the box of stolen belongings and says, "this must be really embarrassing for you, for a classy woman to see you for what you are." I was like, WOMAN? which one you referring to? aren't there two classy ladies there in the room? I mean, it's all over Ramsey from the moment they chat at the bar that he thinks Alex is the shiz. obviously he thinks Eames is classy. not quite "his type", but he likes her in some way. His eyes are right on her when Bobby says this comment. Ramsey retorts: "it's not what you think." And his eyes go to the ladies again, then Goren. but the first one is Eames. I think this was Bobby's mistake. I guess she was thinkin', 'just shut up already, you're diggin' yourself further in!' This is a good theory, Mary. That being said, there is still shippy stuff within this episode. -> at the bar, Ramsey says Eames is "an attractive woman", watch B's face. aha! ->during the "FABULOUS" (X4!) scene, Bobby says Alex' profession is Queen. of Sheba. now, he could've said corporate lawyer, he could've said politician, matriarch or daughter of a rich family, but no. his queen. to quote B himself: "in the trade, we call this a tell." (from The Pilgrim -- Ethan coul've written anything on the wall since it was Aramaic. but he wrote "I sought him but have not found him..." from Song of Songs, which ultimately helped give him away.) ~I call that a nod to the fans. and yeah that's something I could've put in the pilgrim thread )-> when talking about the fact that Jenny Sullivan had a thing for Keith, and Keith says he didn't realize, Bobby says: "you're a man of the world, how could you miss it?!" I'm not gonna speculate because I'm not sure exactly what I see here. but I see something shippy. He's a detective. doesn't that make him more qualified to sense ships than a travelling man? ->Alex mentions that when she has a beef at work she goes to her Dad. She then asks Jenny's father if he knew about the harrassment, saying "did you tell her not to show weakness? be strong? to tough it out? the dad says "everyone has a bad day at one time or another. can't let it get to you" And there is a mention of Jenny "filing a complaint with the company". Sound familiar?
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![]() ![]() "...your words were like bolts of sunshine." ~ Kathryn Erbe, on the CI Binder Project | |
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| unicorn | Feb 12 2011, 12:07 PM Post #11 |
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dizzy know-it-all fan
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we watched 'baggage' last week, and i asked the old man what he thought of Eames' parting comment, and he said, 'she was telling Carver to shut up.' (i have to be casual when asking the old man to analyze something ... he'll start to talk and then go, 'hey ... is this one of those shippy things?' and click his tongue in disgust and wander away. i'm happy to have his company for viewings, and don't push my luck! :lol: ) so far, this is the most satisfying suggestion i've had time to mull over. they've been fairly clear about this: neither character grew up with privilege. they're working class people, regardless of how nice their clothes are now. Carver is a lawyer. different 'class'. different attitude. etc. it seems certain that Eames identifies with the way Jenny must have felt before her murder. she knows what it's like to be the only female in a very hostile work environment, and she knows what it's like to find out that you've been out with someone who's 'just slumming.' (i think it's one of the reasons she was so irritated by Charlotte Fielding -- the white trash Jersey girl says she was just 'slumming' ... how charming.) but, i don't think that person is Bobby. his arrogance is related to his superior intelligence, and i don't think she is threatened by that part of his personality. annoyed, yes. but he doesn't look down on her because she's 'not as smart' and he'd have no reason to look down on her because she grew up in a working class home. so did he. does it lend credence to the 'Eames and Carver dated' theory? maybe. i still don't see any suggestion that she'd be into an affair with a married man. tho' i DO see lots of evidence that Carver is a hound, and may well have been pursuing her for a 'casual, just-slumming kind-of thing ...' he does touch her a lot. and there's an early ep (which ... escapes ... me ... ) in which Carver comes in and crowds Eames, and she very deliberately moves away from him and closer to her partner. i see 'dopple G/E' everywhere. the size difference thing ... others have mentioned this as being one of the appeals of the romantic pairing of the these two -- that he's so enormous and she's tiny. Jenny's parents have the same size disparity. the 'parent' storyline to me indicates that while Alex's father may be a loving man, he isn't all that supportive of her career. i glean from suggestion after suggestion that he's a "If you want to play with the boys, then be prepared to get hurt and don't come whining to me" kind-of dad. |
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| skittles4me | Feb 12 2011, 02:59 PM Post #12 |
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confectioner
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All quotes from Unicorn above:
Huh. Never thought of that. Hmmm. (Wheels spinning)
Ha ha- I prefer to watch alone. Hubby makes sarcastic comments like "Oh yeah, SURE. That wouldn't happen in real life" etc. and I miss dialogue because I'm telling him to shut-up. Last night I was telling him about season 10 [spoil]and I said I really hope they don't have Bobby hook up with his therapist. And hubby says "Goren is alone, it would be nice for him to have someone" and I screamed "HE HAS EAMES!!! OMG WTF DO YOU THINK I'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT ALL THIS TIME!" :angry: [/spoil] We've been happily wed for 15 years. LOCI just isn't something we share! LOL :lol: Ah well. Back to our topic
When Keith tells Bobby that he thinks Eames is attractive, and Bobby responds "If you think hostile is attractive", do you think Bobby actually meant that? Of course I think Bobby finds Eames attractive, but can't decide if he thinks her hostility is unattractive, or if he is just saying that to see Keith's reaction. I think Eames really is showing her true feelings here, but I would expect our sensitive, respectful Bobby to be understanding.
Yeah, I think Carver is a hound. I think that HE thinks Alex would feel flattered to have HIM pay attention to her that way; and I think SHE is thinking ewwww -get away from me! I also can't believe Alex would knowingly date a married man.
Ohhh. :Swoon: (Confessing a caveman kink) There is just something about a guy who can literally sweep a woman off her feet!
:nods: She was never anyone's pampered little princess! LOL line:Alex to Bobby about the glo-stick: I can't believe you touched that thing! |
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| Paulie_V | Feb 12 2011, 04:27 PM Post #13 |
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I'd bet the farm that the remark "...if you like hostile" was entirely done to draw out the suspect. Goren wanted him to think they were in the same boat when it came to thinking about women in their workplaces. |
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| MaryE | Feb 13 2011, 11:15 AM Post #14 |
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Captain
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Yep, that was my take on it too. |
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| eamesfreak | Feb 15 2011, 01:11 AM Post #15 |
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Captain
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I share this feeling. it's definitely one of the things I like about them/their ship.
I can relate. and no, I don't think B meant that thing about hostility. I also agree with skittles' take on the Eames/Carver dynamic. |
![]() ![]() "...your words were like bolts of sunshine." ~ Kathryn Erbe, on the CI Binder Project | |
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I mean where did that come from? It was funny though,lol. It's also hilarious how Bobby and Carver looked at each other! I doubt she was aiming the killer 'cause that Keith guy didn't have a talking problem from what I understood... Bobby? Why would she think that Goren talks too much?
Or was she just aiming men in general because people like to say that women are the gossipers? idk,lol

) that Eames was strongly identifying with Jenny and her experience, being sexually harassed and frightened at work. so that tells us what about the NYPD as a work place? she was a vice cop. lots of chances for that kind of thing.
You peeps come up with so many interesting ideas


I'll be back Thursday



