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Anyone heard about this?
Topic Started: Nov 17 2006, 05:30 AM (126 Views)
Forgottenlord

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyvrqcxNIFs

Note: sitting on the comments page, I found this little post:

"... The man was leaving after the 2 officers asked him to. While leaving, one of the officers grabbed him firmly, to which the man yelled 'don't touch me' and pulled away. The second officer began tasing him at this point... which is where this video picks up."


Anyone heard about this?
No, seriously
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Yelda
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That video is very confusing. Why were the cops called in the first place?
OMGwtf
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Forgottenlord

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http://www.ucpd.ucla.edu/ucpd/zippdf/2006/...%2011-15-06.pdf

The reason for removal isn't surprising. I suspected it might've been just a simple noise complaint or something, but appears to be lack of Uni ID. Neither are very uncommon, TBH. In an average week, there's at least half a dozen with questionable conduct removed from my own Uni campus - though almost never with any level of force.

BTW - it sounded like more than a few times they were asked for their badge numbers by a variety of individuals and it sounded like the requests were denied (certainly they were repeated several times). Aren't they required to give up their badge numbers when asked for them?
No, seriously
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Yelda
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Forgottenlord,Nov 17 2006
12:17 AM
Aren't they required to give up their badge numbers when asked for them?

In the middle of an ongoing situation like that, I don't think they're required to do a damn thing.

I'm sorry, but in the absence of any further background information I'm going to have to say that he had it coming. He refused to show University ID. He was asked to leave. He refused. They removed him.
OMGwtf
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Ausserland
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I tried watching the video and couldn't see enough to really tell anything. The Daily Bruin article is an unfortunate example of the sort of thing that so often surrounds incidents like this: "This is what happened"; "No, this is what happened".

From the article, the police were called when library personnel, making a routine check of student IDs, found this person didn't have one, and he declined to leave immediately.

Now, I turn the clock back 35 years and put my provost marshal (police chief) hat on. And I ask the officers one question to start with:

If--as the article states--the subject was walking towards the exit when you arrived, why did you think it was necessary to approach him at all? Why not just observe and make sure he actually left?

If they can come up with a good answer to that, we go on to ask some questions about confrontation management technique, justification for use of force, and why you'd feel the need to taser somebody more than once. :blink:
If at first you don't succeed, give up. There's no sense getting frustrated.

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Yelda
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Ausserland,Nov 17 2006
12:37 AM
I tried watching the video and couldn't see enough to really tell anything. The Daily Bruin article is an unfortunate example of the sort of thing that so often surrounds incidents like this: "This is what happened"; "No, this is what happened".

From the article, the police were called when library personnel, making a routine check of student IDs, found this person didn't have one, and he declined to leave immediately.

I didn't see a link to a Daily Bruin article. Where was it?
OMGwtf
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Norderia
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Google UCLA taser and it shows up.

I watched the video several times, and argued with a friend for about half an hour about it. From what I can tell, here's what happened:

The student was working and got randomly checked for an ID, which he didn't have on him. He didn't leave immediately. Campus security left and returned a few minutes later, at which point he was making his way toward the door. My guess is that he wanted to finish up whatever he was working on before he got kicked out. By all accounts, he was walking toward the door with his backpack and everything. One of the officers grabbed his arm, and he recoiled, pulling away. The video kicks in at about this point. Apparently the cop kept trying to get a hold of him. There's no violent struggle at this point, because the student is yelling -- no one yells when in a fight, they're saving their breath. The cops tase him and he goes down. Judging by his languages and passive resistance at this point, I'm guessing he was trying to provoke the cops into doing something to get national attention. He yells about the PATRIOT Act, and refuses to get up and walk on his own power.

The cops tase him a couple more times when he continues to just lay deadweight. The cops threaten to tase the other students when they continue to ask for badge numbers or defend the student.

I think there was no need for any kind of force in removing this guy from the library, but I think this guy was trying to be difficult as well.
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Ausserland
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Norderia,Nov 17 2006
03:22 AM
There's no violent struggle at this point, because the student is yelling -- no one yells when in a fight, they're saving their breath.

Uh, sorry... not true. People who are thinking logically would save their breath. That's far from common in spur-of-the-moment fights.
If at first you don't succeed, give up. There's no sense getting frustrated.

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The Palentine
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Ausserland,Nov 17 2006
05:14 PM
Norderia,Nov 17 2006
03:22 AM
There's no violent struggle at this point, because the student is yelling -- no one yells when in a fight, they're saving their breath.

Uh, sorry... not true. People who are thinking logically would save their breath. That's far from common in spur-of-the-moment fights.

Yeah. In most spur of the moment fight I've been involved with, most start with aspersions about legitimacy of one's birth, carnal relations with one's own mother, the business opportunity one has with one's sister, ect. Saving ones breath is the last thing on the mind.
I would like to think if I were arranging a royal assassination, I’d plan in such a way that I wouldn’t be standing there gawking like a fool when the King died.
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Norderia
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Ausserland,Nov 17 2006
05:14 PM
Norderia,Nov 17 2006
03:22 AM
There's no violent struggle at this point, because the student is yelling -- no one yells when in a fight, they're saving their breath.

Uh, sorry... not true. People who are thinking logically would save their breath. That's far from common in spur-of-the-moment fights.

Not so in an actual struggle. You listen to any fight, and the combatants aren't yelling. They're gritting their teeth in struggle, holding their breath (I think I meant holding breath, not saving breath). All there is is yelling and then ZAP. That's why proper breathing is the first thing they teach in most good martial arts classes.
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Ausserland
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I guess we're gonna have to agree to disagree. Growing up in a somewhat rough part of the country and spending six years in law enforcement, I think I've seen and been involved with enough fights to know what they're like. Sure, if you've got two trained martial artists going at it, they're gonna be concerned about breath control. No argument there. And once the combatants start to get out-of-breath, they get quieter. But that's not what we're talking about here, is it?

If at first you don't succeed, give up. There's no sense getting frustrated.

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Yelda
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I've read the Daily Bruin article now. I've watched the video a couple of more times. My conclusion? I don't have one. It seems that the police may have acted too quickly. If he really was leaving the building, if he really was approaching the exit and causing no further problems, then they should have simply observed him and ensured that he did in fact leave. On the other hand, I doubt the cops went in there planning to tazer him or anyone else. His behavior on the film is anything but compliant, they may have concluded that it was going to be necessary to physically escort him from the premises. We don't know how he was acting when they got there, the film doesn't show that. What we do know is that he was ordered to do something by the police and refused to do so. Not a good idea, even if the police were in the wrong. If that incident had occured around here, the cops wouldn't have tazered the guy. They would have beat the hell out of him.
OMGwtf
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