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UK Politics - Lib Dems
Topic Started: Jan 7 2006, 01:33 PM (204 Views)
Ecopoeia
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Grumpy Old Men
Kennedy's days are numbered

Gru, you're a member of the LDs, aren't you? What's your take on the situation? Personally, I see no escape for Kennedy - which is a shame, he's a decent guy - but I don't know who should replace him. I like Simon Hughes - he's my MP - but I don't see him having the necessary charisma. I fear we may see a lurch to the right unless Ming gets in...
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Gruenberg
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Actually, as of December, I'm not. I resigned.

Nonetheless, my take is: move over, you twat. I feel very sorry for him and everything, and I like the guy, but it wouldn't be a huge loss anyway were he to go, and it'd be even stupider for him to stay on, even if the Party backs him, because he has no front-bench support.

It's quite funny on some of the forums, with people all contesting to point out when they first knew about it (some of them seem to have known he was an alcoholic before he did, to judge from their stories) so as to appear 'part of the in-crowd' or whatever.

As for replacement...no idea. I quite like Hughes, but I'm not sure he'd be great for the party. I have no idea who the 'obvious contenders' are anymore; I would think it would be tactical to pick someone really could tell apart from Cameron; I suspect they'll pick someone identical.
[size0]Everything that can be done visibly in this world can be done by demons.

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Ardchoille
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You mean, British politicians aren't allowed to be alcoholics? I thought you lot respected tradition.

Don't you have any half-way decent spin-doctors who could present him as a lovable lush -- er, larrikin?

I'm not the real me.
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Ecopoeia
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Grumpy Old Men
Well, he is a loveable larrikin. But he was already under the cosh, so there's no hope for him now.

I think Ming the merciless is about the best person. Given that the PM won't be a Lib Dem for some time, there's no harm in going for an old fogey, especially one as sharp and respected as Ming. This doesn't hold true for Vince Cable, however...

Why'd you resign, Gru?
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_Myopia_
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Quote:
 
Behind the scenes the Guardian has learned from senior figures that at least three candidates - his deputy, Sir Menzies Campbell, the party president, Simon Hughes, and the home affairs spokesman, Mark Oaten - are expected to stand for the leadership should Mr Kennedy stand aside


Am I right in remembering that Oaten is one of those responsible for edging the party closer and closer to the centre and away from any hint of radicalism (or liberalism, for that matter)?

I suppose you could do worse. David "The Orange Book, or, maybe we could abolish the NHS and income taxes" Laws springs to mind, and in fact he appears to be one of the MPs pushing Kennedy to leave. But now I see that actually, Cable and Oaten also contributed to that book - is Kennedy being forced out to make way for the free-marketisation of another supposedly leftist party?
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TBlack
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Bye, bye.
"You would think it obvious to anyone, with a grain of intelligence, that there are far too many people born in England."
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Ecopoeia
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Laws, Cable and Oaten are all part of the economic liberalism wing. Hughes is the main man of the 'liberal left' (unless Ming is on the left of the party). I'm not sure about the other names mentioned: Clegg, Opik and Davey, though I think the latter leans left.

Very sad to see that there are, once again, no female candidates. A bit too early for Sarah teather, I guess (not that I'm particularly impressed with her haste to knife Kennedy).
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_Myopia_
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I know Lembit Opik was the other contender against Simon Hughes for party president, but I don't really know anything else.
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Ecopoeia
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Opik is Mr Asteroid Attack. Married to some weather girl. Bit of a loon.
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Gruenberg
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Opik's a bit of a knob.

Bear in mind The Orange Book is hated by a lot of the party. If economic liberalism and free market politics do follow through, then it won't be using that; they'll need a rethink. I am inclined to think, though, that the party may drift right, and that it would make much more sense to go left, young man. The trouble is that, great, the party used to be about Classic Liberalism. IT'S NOT ANYMORE. Trying to drag it back into that sort of line of thinking seems needlessly counter-productive.

Glad to see he stepped down, but a pity, because I did like him, and the "loveable lush" line might have been fun. From the outside.
[size0]Everything that can be done visibly in this world can be done by demons.

For an organisation that likes to think of itself as elite, [UNOG] doesn't have the highest of standards when it comes to membership. -- Cluichstan
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TBlack
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I always felt completely indifferent to him really. I don’t see that as a good thing in a leader.

I just hope this doesn’t mean we’ll end up with a third New Labour.
"You would think it obvious to anyone, with a grain of intelligence, that there are far too many people born in England."
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_Myopia_
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Gruenberg,Jan 7 2006
05:34 PM
Bear in mind The Orange Book is hated by a lot of the party.

I know, it's just that crowd really pissed me off. David Laws and his ilk being promoted into the shadow cabinet, and the talk of better tailoring more radical policies, like the 50% tax, to the opinions of the electorate (read: abandoning our philosophy to see if we can't grab more Tories) after the election was the final nail in the coffin for any thoughts of renewing my membership, which lapsed last March-ish (although I had been pretty confident that I wanted to let it lapse since some time in 2004).
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Compadria
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Pity to see him go, though his revelation does confirm that my unofficial moniker for him "TDS (The Drunken Scot)" was accurate. He was a reasonably decent guy and I think that this has all been a bit overblown, though it was always likely that once he admitted being an alcoholic he would be living on borrowed time.

Meanwhile I think the Lib Dems will choose someone sufficiently woolly to lead them and their party onwards in their usual bumbling fashion. They won't choose Simon Hughes (too much of a lefty) and they'll probably stay clear of the weirdo's (Lembit Opik), so that leaves with a choice of Oaten, Campbell and Laws. My guess is that it will be Oaten, simply because Campbell will be considered as to old and Laws as too divisive (on account of the Orange Book and other things).

My ideal leader though would be someone who can break the rather monotous grip of the two Blair's (Tony and David "Blair" Cameron) and liven things up a bit, so that would have to be "Asteroid Attack" Opik. There's no reason in fact that this trend couldn't spread to the other parties. How about Dennis Skinner becoming Labour leader and Anne Widecombe taking on the mantle of the Conservatives. Now that would make an interesting PMQ's.
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Ecopoeia
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I'd vote for a Labour party headed by Tony Benn, that's for sure.
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Gruenberg
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I don't see any point in making Campbell leader. Sure, he's a nice guy, and wouldn't fuck up too majorly. But it's another indication of a failure of the Lib Dems themselves to see the party as having long-term hopes; do that, and you can't possibly expect anyone else to buy the 'real opposition' line. I think it'd be good to have a big, messy, scrappy election: it puts them in the limelight, and gets everyone talking about what modern liberalism really is - and should be - instead of trying to shuffle it off into the dark.
[size0]Everything that can be done visibly in this world can be done by demons.

For an organisation that likes to think of itself as elite, [UNOG] doesn't have the highest of standards when it comes to membership. -- Cluichstan
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