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Uk Abortion Rights; soon to be lack of?
Topic Started: Jun 22 2005, 06:23 PM (172 Views)
TBlack
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The baby killer
Grumpy Old Men
Quote:
 
The British Medical Association (BMA) will debate at its annual conference whether it should change its policy on abortion for the first time since 1989.

Four separate groups of doctors have submitted motions calling for the upper abortion limit to be lowered from 24 weeks, given that premature babies born as young as 22 weeks can now survive.

One motion suggests a limit of 20 weeks. If the motion is passed, it would become BMA policy to lobby the government for a change.

- Article

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"You would think it obvious to anyone, with a grain of intelligence, that there are far too many people born in England."
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HotRodia
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Hmmm. Viability-based laws are going to be tricky for "a woman's absolute right to her own body" pro-choicers. If the age of viability keeps getting pushed down, there may be no more right to have an abortion over time.
"The irrationality of a thing is no argument against its existence, rather a condition of it." -- Friedrich Nietzsche
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Knootoss
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Filthy pro-lifers. Bah. Using potential life arguments to opress women because they want to force their "family" ideal on people. Disgusting. Doctors have no business meddling with that right.
~Aram Koopman, Knootian ambassador to the WA
"If the United Nations is a country unto itself, then the commodity it exports most is words."
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HotRodia
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Knootoss,Jun 22 2005
10:22 PM
Filthy pro-lifers. Bah. Using potential life arguments to opress women because they want to force their "family" ideal on people. Disgusting. Doctors have no business meddling with that right.

Somehow I don't think their primary motive is oppression or forcing an ideal on anyone, Knoot, anymore than it's your goal to oppress or force an ideal on anyone. People just believe what they believe (rightly or wrongly) and tend to act on those beliefs, generally not to oppress people. No matter how disgustingly conservative or stupid you think they are, assuming that they have some sort of agenda with the express purpose of oppressing people is just silly.
"The irrationality of a thing is no argument against its existence, rather a condition of it." -- Friedrich Nietzsche
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Vastiva
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"People are Stupid".

Next question?
That which is not khomerex is khesterex. Qapla jowi!
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Knootoss
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Nope. They have an agenda. Maybe not some of the ordinary Christians they drag along with their weekly brainwashing, but certainly the leadership. All these religious people don't randomly develop an interest in biology or theories for tectonic plates and all.

The Blairite government is just an example of how third way concern for the "morality" of people is used for all sorts of little authoritarian laws.

Creationism, banning abortion, closing down all social life on sundays, banning gay relationships, fundamentalist government programmes against contraception in Africa, its all part of an agenda to impose a Christian state and the conversion of all non-believers with state means. They just go about it sneakily, but that is what they really want, if only they had all power. To quote the sea orc: its not paranoia if they are actually out to get you.
~Aram Koopman, Knootian ambassador to the WA
"If the United Nations is a country unto itself, then the commodity it exports most is words."
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Ecopoeia
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E-u-o-c-o-u-p-i-e-i-a-u-o-e-a
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The basis of the pro-life argument is something that I respect, though I don't agree with it. However, I think there's more than just an element of truth in what Knoot's saying. I may come across as a filthy commie, but my anti-capitalism is far weaker than my anti-religiousfundiestryingtodestroyreasonism.

One's position in the abortion argument kind of boils down to (in incredibly simplistic terms) to how you resolve the following equation:

value of potential life </> value of personal freedom

Well, it's not technically an equation, but hopefully you get where I'm coming from.
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Knootoss
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I'd say the equation, in practical terms of support, is more like:

value of your religion </> value of personal freedom (of others)

I'm frankly not buying the value of potential life argument, when a position is orignally Biblically inspired. It is an argument used to convince the 'pragmatic' fringes. I find Bush suddenly caring about life incredibly suspicious when he so easily sacrifices it for what he percieves as freedom.
~Aram Koopman, Knootian ambassador to the WA
"If the United Nations is a country unto itself, then the commodity it exports most is words."
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Ecopoeia
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E-u-o-c-o-u-p-i-e-i-a-u-o-e-a
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Certainly in some cases, I think you're right. But I know at least one pro-lifer who holds the position with no reference to his religious beliefs. And he's one of me best mates, so I cdan vouch for his integrity. ;)
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Knootoss
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As I said, it may not be the case for some common people convinced by all the anti-choice propaganda. Pictures of dead fetuses are yucky, after all.
~Aram Koopman, Knootian ambassador to the WA
"If the United Nations is a country unto itself, then the commodity it exports most is words."
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Ecopoeia
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E-u-o-c-o-u-p-i-e-i-a-u-o-e-a
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Uh, I'm certain some people have made their conclusions independent of such propaganda. Perhaps they're a minority, perhaps not. Thing is, here in the UK, the pro-life movement is a non-entity (though Clare's link does suggest that this may change), so I very much doubt that people like my friend have been influenced by them.
Enough is as good as a feast

To Ill-Advisedly Go!
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TBlack
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The baby killer
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Ecopoeia,Jun 23 2005
02:52 PM
Thing is, here in the UK, the pro-life movement is a non-entity (though Clare's link does suggest that this may change)

I wouldn't call them a non-entity. A small entity, but the foetus picture showing, blocking entry protests still go on.

Of course it's important to remember that we don't have the right to abortion in the UK. It's (supposedly) not terribly hard to get one but it isn't a right.
"You would think it obvious to anyone, with a grain of intelligence, that there are far too many people born in England."
.:I'm melting!: http://alwaysautumn.etsy.com :.
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Ecopoeia
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E-u-o-c-o-u-p-i-e-i-a-u-o-e-a
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Us and our unoffical rights, eh? No constitution, no right to abortion...
Enough is as good as a feast

To Ill-Advisedly Go!
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TBlack
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The baby killer
Grumpy Old Men
Ecopoeia,Jun 23 2005
04:14 PM
Us and our unoffical rights, eh? No constitution, no right to abortion...

Yeah but what other country in the world can you get an elephant from a bloke down the pub just by learning the correct sequence of nudges and winks.

Or so I'm told.
"You would think it obvious to anyone, with a grain of intelligence, that there are far too many people born in England."
.:I'm melting!: http://alwaysautumn.etsy.com :.
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HotRodia
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Knootoss,Jun 23 2005
08:42 AM
Nope. They have an agenda. Maybe not some of the ordinary Christians they drag along with their weekly brainwashing, but certainly the leadership. All these religious people don't randomly develop an interest in biology or theories for tectonic plates and all.

The Blairite government is just an example of how third way concern for the "morality" of people is used for all sorts of little authoritarian laws.

Creationism, banning abortion, closing down all social life on sundays, banning gay relationships, fundamentalist government programmes against contraception in Africa, its all part of an agenda to impose a Christian state and the conversion of all non-believers with state means. They just go about it sneakily, but that is what they really want, if only they had all power. To quote the sea orc: its not paranoia if they are actually out to get you.

Oh, they damn well have an agenda, but it's not because they just want to oppress people. For them, it's about truth and morality, at least consciously. Sure, the political leaders have power and influence to gain, but the average pro-lifer doesn't have that motivation.

Vastiva's "people are stupid' axiom explains it all nicely.
"The irrationality of a thing is no argument against its existence, rather a condition of it." -- Friedrich Nietzsche
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