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Storm Banner; Double-Edged Sword?
Topic Started: 22nd September 2014 - 12:57 AM (440 Views)
WoollyMammoth
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Stormvermin
So I started taking a Storm Banner in order to circumvent my opponents Ironblaster.

At first I thought it had to be cast in my turn, so there as only a 50% chance it even effected the opponent, and that all my attacks are immune. Apparently according to the FAQ both are wrong. It can be cast in your opponents turn, but then has a 50% chance of carrying over into your turn.

Since Skaven have a lot of stuff going on in the shooting phase I wonder how much its worth it. I stopped the Ironblaster but then in my turn the storm raged on, and I had to roll for my WLC, Doomwheel, Brass Orb and Doomrocket. My cannon was saved from the Ironblaster but then my own cannon couldn't shoot.

Maybe I should have waited until after I activated my doomrocket and brass orb to use the banner?

Against some armies like gun line lists its a no-brainer but is it worth it when your opponent has less shooting than you?



Edited by WoollyMammoth, 22nd September 2014 - 12:58 AM.
Skaven Army
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Didimus
Stormvermin
I find it is a very effective tool, but mainly for when the other side has more shooting. I think people who bring it tend to bring a more combat-oriented list so that they don't suffer from it. I find I actually use mine more to ground an enemy flyer in a bad position and then kill him the next turn.
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WoollyMammoth
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Stormvermin
A flying enemy can still use his base movement right? So a Daemon Prince won't be hindered too much, but he might be in a bad position, not expecting to lose his flight.
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Dune-rats
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Clanrat
But tzeentch's flying disc has a whopping 1 move speed
W/L/D
Vs WoC 2/2/1
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Priesmal
Stormvermin
A lot of folks don't use the Storm Banner if they have a lot of shooting themselves. I, however, am a bit stupid or something. I like my shooting, but I bring it anyhow. The way I see it, I have a 50% chance that it won't matter at all. My cannons will each have a 50% chance of ignoring the effect. None of my Ballistic Skill shots are too great, and they work on either poison or massed fire.

As with everything Skaven, it's a cost-benefit analysis. The possible damage I do to my enemy's shooting is greater than any possible interference to my own. And if there are flyers... even better. The denial of early game fly-over attacks (such as terradons and phoenixes) is awesome.
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SkavenInAZ
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Storm Banner isn't for everyone... I just recently starting taking it in my GT lists because of the new meta with Dwarves and Woodies.

But I definitely believe it's worthwhile, even if just to give you a chance at keeping things alive another turn or too. That alone is great, as it forces your opponent to keep trying to kill things he would've shot at first turn, keeping your other items alive... and the grounding of the fliers is key. Pinning those slow moving Drones or such way on a flank with 1-2 turns of 2 inch moving can help in all sorts of ways.
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Royos
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I used to use it against my friend who played an Empire gunline. I used to take all combat units and rush his line and I always took the storm banner with me. I remember it worked well once or twice at providing a bit of cover. I havn't used it since then. I've been tempted to use it against my other friend's Dwarfs but so far I havn't needed to. So in my experience I think you only really need it in certain circumstances. But if you want to take it just for kicks and giggles then go for it ;)
Royhammer (Army Diary)
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Nurglitch IX
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WoollyMammoth
22nd September 2014 - 12:57 AM
Since Skaven have a lot of stuff going on in the shooting phase I wonder how much its worth it. I stopped the Ironblaster but then in my turn the storm raged on, and I had to roll for my WLC, Doomwheel, Brass Orb and Doomrocket. My cannon was saved from the Ironblaster but then my own cannon couldn't shoot.

Maybe I should have waited until after I activated my doomrocket and brass orb to use the banner?
Or wait until after the effect ends to fire them.

If you're starting your Engineers out in your slave units, and it looks like it's going to be a post banner shooting, just pop them out of the back of the unit (they can leave from any point) and stop 1" behind the slaves. Then if they engage you can shoot into them, and if not you shoot over them!
-img-http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/underempire/PRS%20Banners/2hfhshwet.jpg[/img]
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WoollyMammoth
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Stormvermin
I think it might be just always great to have. If you got to go first, then its huge since you can do all your shooting then pop it after.

One of the most important factors is that its can go on a SV standard bearer. This is a little bit broken, as its a 50pt game-changing magic item on a 17pt core model that cannot be targeted. Aside from, of course, the BotWD, this might be the most easily useable and beneficial racial banner in the game.

The storm banner is impossible to prevent, other than obliterating the unit down to characters. Even if you snipe the banner out, or attack it in close combat, the next guy picks up the banner as per banner rules, so there is no way to stop it. The only thing I can think of is Arcane Unforging.

I can think of very few situations in which having the banner is not useful

Flying
- Most armies have flying, and really nasty flying at that. As Dune-rats points out, some units are screwed. Like SkavenInAZ said, Rot Fly (Daemon Plague Drone) moves a whopping 1. That could be the game right there (especially if you jam the skillcannon). Sure a Demon Prince still moves 7" (but not if he deployed behind some warriors planning to fly over them). Cutting the flame breath range on turn 1 from 28" to 22" is very significant. Chimera flame range is reduced down to 20". Great Eagle re-directors that you'll see in most competitive HE/WE lists are starting the game marching 4". Either Phoenix as well. I'm sure there's many more examples.

War Machines
- As SkavenInAZ stated, one turn of a jammed war machines means one more turn for your gutters to destroy it, or at least one less turn it does something nasty to you. Only in rare circumstances will this make you angry:

Example
- Your cannon versus their cannon, and they make a shot before you (or you were unable to kill theirs with your shot).
- THEN, their cannon jams (or they manage to fire but only cause 1-2 wounds),
- THEN there's a 25% chance the storm will rage on AND your cannon will also jam

This just so happens to be my exact situation, which makes me wonder the value of this. But I think that a 50% chance to jam his cannon from doing something super nasty turn 1 is very worth it. Obviously, this becomes much more valuable with big gunlines and lots of opponent shooting.

Shooting
- Most armies have some kind of shooting. You can't effect Tomb Kings but they are very bad by default anyway (catapults are still affected). Even Wood Elves will have any non-trueflight arrow reduced to 6 to hit from long range. You are both slowing the twilight sisters down and reducing their chance to hit (they have an abomb decimating arrow that you want to avoid). Waywatchers are severely hurt by the storm.


I think there are very few times the banner will not have a big effect on the game, and taking 50pts of core is nothing.




Edited by WoollyMammoth, 22nd September 2014 - 08:20 PM.
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Njaaa
Chieftain
Do not forget it can also help to tarpit a big flyjng monster, unkillable Lord, Hero, etc... with slaves for 1 or 2 rounds. In your turn you position your slaves as close as possible to the target, pop the stormbanner. He can only move 2 to 4" and you charge next turn.

Flying creature:
1st turn, taking position on the battle field to charge next turn big distance.
2nd turn, the stormbanner has been activated and it is failing charge or moving 2 to 4".
3rd turn, charged by slaves and figting 2nd CC in his turn.
4th turn.. if lucky still fighting or otherwise re-positioning it-self

Sometimes the creature needs 2 turns to position itself for a good charge in the 3rd turn, so the creature only eats 100 points of slaves in 4 to 5 turns of game length. You can also bring in a second wave of slaves,, or shoot with WLC of course.
Edited by Njaaa, 1st October 2014 - 04:43 PM.
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King Rat
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Grey Seer
Remember that the Storm Banner affects non Magical non Ballistic Skill shooting so it Doesn't affect the Weapons Teams, Plague Claw Catapult or WLC's.

It will affect the Jezzails, Gutter Runners, Night Runners and Assassin (thrown weapons), (-2 to hit).
8th Ed Win /Draw/ Loss
Skaven 24/ 10/ 13

Runner up Club Championships 2014, 2012
2nd Place Blood on the Reich 2011, 3rd Place Devilcon 2011
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SkavenInAZ
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This was changed in the Skaven FAQ:

Quote:
 
Page 111 – Storm Banner.
Add “One use only”. Change the start of the third sentence to
“All shooting attacks that don’t use BS [...]”.
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King Rat
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Grey Seer
Oh dang good to know.
8th Ed Win /Draw/ Loss
Skaven 24/ 10/ 13

Runner up Club Championships 2014, 2012
2nd Place Blood on the Reich 2011, 3rd Place Devilcon 2011
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Krede
Clanrat
Ah.. I have been playing the storm banner wrong :).
Just to be perfectly clear .. The storm banner can also be activated at the start of your opponents turn ?
Edited by Krede, 11th October 2014 - 02:55 PM.
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Littlewicked
Chieftain
Yes it can be activated in the beginning of your turn or your opponents turn. Which is nice if you get first turn since it assures at least one turn of shooting without it affecting you.
Edited by Littlewicked, 11th October 2014 - 11:35 AM.
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