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| New Player - Some Questions; How do I Skaven? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: 14th September 2014 - 04:51 AM (547 Views) | |
| WoollyMammoth | 14th September 2014 - 04:51 AM Post #1 |
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Stormvermin
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I try to do a lot of searching and learn things online - I read a lot of good stuff but there's a few things I can't figure out. I'm going to be playing 1500 and am pretty impressed about how much stuff I can cram in a small points game. Slaves: Units of 40, 2-3 units. musician. - Hold things with their 10Ld and always steadfast while firing into pinned unit. Stormvermin, full CMD storm banner. - lite hammer, storm banner works great for what I'll be up against, cutting gunner runners in small points games 1-2 units of 5 giant rat darts - re-directors Doomwheel - How should I play it? Should I play it way off to the side or along some slaves using "bump" trick in case he gets hit? Warp Lightning Cannon - Do Skaven players not use the 10" from back of base rule given the nature of this, or standard cannon rules? Hellpit Abomb - Not in a rush to pick this up as my regular opponents bring lots of strong flaming attacks, so this is like a one game surprise before i start seeing ogre deathstars with flaming banner and demon princes with burning body. warlocks, 2 lvl 1s (for channels) - Can you take multiple Warp Lighting like signature spells? - Does brass orb hit everything under the scatter, or only the final placing of the template? - Whats the optimal use of Doomrocket? Get within 14" and use 4 dice? Grey Seer: Skalm, 4++ - How do spells work? it seems like you want to go all ruin if you're trying to get Cracks for units like Ogres, or all Plague if you need to Wither tough targets like Chaos Warriors, and always 13th (unless ogres). Assassin - this unit I'm most confused about. I see a lot of Str potion and weeping blade setup. Do you take him as part of gutter runners and charge out, or surprise out of a unit of slaves that just got engaged, or ambush from behind? Weapons Teams: I don't understand how to use them - can they stay still while "its unit" charges? If a unit of stormvermin charged for example, and there is a slaves unit in combat nearby, could the stormvermins weapon team sit while they charge, and then fire into the slave combat? Edited by WoollyMammoth, 14th September 2014 - 05:12 AM.
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| Mathusala0 | 14th September 2014 - 05:41 AM Post #2 |
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The Evil Underlord
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Warp Lightning Cannon - Do Skaven players not use the 10" from back of base rule given the nature of this, or standard cannon rules? Standard cannon, measure from 10 inches. warlocks, 2 lvl 1s (for channels) - Can you take multiple Warp Lighting like signature spells? yes, however if you want your grey seer to have it he needs to roll first. - Does brass orb hit everything under the scatter, or only the final placing of the template? the final placement - Whats the optimal use of Doomrocket? Get within 14" and use 4 dice? correct, remember, it can be fired into any combat, and does not need LOS Grey Seer: Skalm, 4++ - How do spells work? it seems like you want to go all ruin if you're trying to get Cracks for units like Ogres, or all Plague if you need to Wither tough targets like Chaos Warriors, and always 13th (unless ogres). Depends on your playstyle, opponent, army composition. this is one you have to figure out for yourself. plagues more focused on ignoring armor and/or toughness factors, ruin focuses on direct damage and utility. Assassin - this unit I'm most confused about. I see a lot of Str potion and weeping blade setup. Do you take him as part of gutter runners and charge out, or surprise out of a unit of slaves that just got engaged, or ambush from behind? he can't be hidden in a unit of slaves. normally he'll hide in a skaven hammer block of SV or clanrats with character support. Weapons Teams: I don't understand how to use them - can they stay still while "its unit" charges? If a unit of stormvermin charged for example, and there is a slaves unit in combat nearby, could the stormvermins weapon team sit while they charge, and then fire into the slave combat? they are "bought" as part of a unit entry for SV or clanrats (or night runners/GR with a warp grinder but no one uses those) once they are deployed on the battlefield, they function as independant units and can move and shoot freely. they DO, however, receive significant benefits from remaining close to their parent unit. namely a 4+ ward save against ranged attacks, ability to use the parent units LOS for shooting (for the wind mortar), and the ability to add their (the parent units) rank bonus to its leadership. |
![]() The Glossary of Common Underempire Lingo The Skaven Guide to competitive list building (8th Edition) The Skaven Castle Formation | |
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| WoollyMammoth | 14th September 2014 - 03:26 PM Post #3 |
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Stormvermin
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TYVM! Is the brass orb FAQd somewhere? Because it uses the "touched by" wording like Purple Sun, not "underneath template" like Pit of Shades. Or is it becasue only a magical vortex is "Active" while scattering? So if you throw the orb, and you get a scatter 6-10" (or a misfire), you're out of luck? For my next 1500 point games I'll try - A SV unit with storm banner, hidden assassin & BSB. PW Mortar - 2-3 slaves units - 1-2 rat darts to prevent getting charged - doomwheel, cannon Where do I put my grey seer and 2-3 engineers? Do I just have to make a "deathstar" with my SV? How do I use my Doomwheel most effectively? This is probably silly but, If a doomwheel is next to your own (or an enemy unit), it only can kill 3 models per shooting phase right? |
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| Dwarfbane | 14th September 2014 - 03:55 PM Post #4 |
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Warlord
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It's not in the Faq...and it clearly states 'touched by'...BWAHAHAHAHA. More skaven douchbaggery to drown my hapless opponents in lol. Yeah the doomwheel can only kill 3 models per turn with the zap, make sure it's not multi-wound models like your ogres or anything important :-D Regarding how to use it I don't really think there's a wrong way, just the sight of it worries most opponents so they'll either have to invest units and time in getting rid of it or attempt to avoid it. If they do try to ignore it fun is to be had by driving around just zapping and not charging lol. Either way it's well worth the points! Edited by Dwarfbane, 14th September 2014 - 04:00 PM.
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If the solution isn't 'Rat ogres' then I'm afraid there's not really a problem to start with ... :-D W/L/D Vampire counts 6/2/0 High elves 1/0/0 Dark elves 1/1/0 Lizardmen 0/1/1 | |
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| scratchydoom | 15th September 2014 - 02:46 AM Post #5 |
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Seer
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Doomwheels are great flank protectors, and excellent anti fast cav, flyer, multi wound models. 3D6 random movement allows them to charge opponents that end up behind them.... |
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Scratch the enganuative My Army Diary Painting List Magnetising Miniatures | |
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| Mathusala0 | 15th September 2014 - 06:18 AM Post #6 |
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The Evil Underlord
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dont charge any unit of 20 or more with it to the front, or even the side really unless they are engaged by a larger unit of your own. utilize the impacts to support combat, but don't try to win combats on its own with anything that isnt a lone character, skirmishers, monster/monstrous infantry or cav, or a VERY small unit of say 10 dudes. and you're correct. the brass orb does not explode and then travel. it travels and then explodes. |
![]() The Glossary of Common Underempire Lingo The Skaven Guide to competitive list building (8th Edition) The Skaven Castle Formation | |
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| SkavenInAZ | 15th September 2014 - 06:47 AM Post #7 |
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Math has it right, but also don't forget the nifty Stand and Shoot Rule. Because of the things Math listed off, you can do some fun things with it, such as being charged, declaring a stand and shoot, then firing it much further (and in a different direction, if desired) than the charging unit, to hit something else. |
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| Didimus | 15th September 2014 - 04:53 PM Post #8 |
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Stormvermin
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With the Brass Orb, remember that you can run right up next to the unit before throwing it. That way, a misfire still hits your target! And, with the Doomwheel, remember that random movement prevents charge reactions other than "Hold". |
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| Saniles | 15th September 2014 - 06:18 PM Post #9 |
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Warlord
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Hey Math, I want to make sure that I'm understanding everything correctly. What does the below mean? I feel like I missed some context in there. Warp Lightning Cannon - Do Skaven players not use the 10" from back of base rule given the nature of this, or standard cannon rules? Standard cannon, measure from 10 inches. |
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- Saniles I imagine that everyday the Great Horned Rat says to the Council of Thirteen... Good night council. Good work. I'll most likely kill you in the morning. | |
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| WoollyMammoth | 15th September 2014 - 07:41 PM Post #10 |
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Stormvermin
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When is this a good tactic? Can a doomrocket not be fired if marching? I can see that if you march out to redirect a charge, then blow the rocket as a reaction. Interesting that it can be a charge reaction since it doesn't require forward arc, LoS or BS. |
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| BustedDice | 16th September 2014 - 03:40 PM Post #11 |
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Clanrat
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The Brass orb is a thrown weapon with a template, not a vortex. The scatter represents where it lands, it doesn't land and then hit everything between that and where it scatters to. After scatter determines where it lands, then everything touched by the template is hit. The doomrocket is gold. Opponents hate and fear it. I usually calculate range by adding a D6 for every 4" you want it to travel. Rarely misses. You can maximise its effectiveness by firing at large blocks or at an angle where an under or over shoot might still hit a unit in front or behind the target. Had a game Sunday and a direct hit took out 29 of my opponents unit of 40 Dark Elf executioners....an important skill to learn is how not to grin smugly while your opponent is turning purple and welling up. ![]() If you really want your opponents to cry, skitterleap your doomrocket equipped warlock to the end of their battleline and fire it across their army. You're virtually guaranteed to hit something even when the dice don't co-operate. Edited by BustedDice, 16th September 2014 - 03:58 PM.
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| WoollyMammoth | 17th September 2014 - 08:21 PM Post #12 |
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Stormvermin
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i still don't quite understand unit placement so in a 1500 points game (vs orges) I'm bringing 2 units of 40 slaves and a stormvermin unit for infantry. Then for chars, I'll have warlord with fellblade, grey sear (4++), warlock lvl1 w/ dispel scroll, warlock w/ brass orb. So ... where do I put them all? I'm thinking the brass orb can go in a unit of slaves to jump out, but the warlord, sear and warlock then are all hanging out with SV? that seems like a mistake, as it puts a big fat target on the units head? |
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| Saniles | 17th September 2014 - 08:29 PM Post #13 |
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Warlord
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Since you don't have much choice, you put the seer and the warlord with the vs. put the other warlock in with slaves for leadership. Take plague on the seer since you will be up close. |
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- Saniles I imagine that everyday the Great Horned Rat says to the Council of Thirteen... Good night council. Good work. I'll most likely kill you in the morning. | |
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| WoollyMammoth | 20th September 2014 - 02:29 PM Post #14 |
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Stormvermin
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Skaven is kind of odd because you take so many chars but having them in the slave pens is anti-productive (since if you get caught with a char in the slaves you cant fire into them). It looks like most people move an engineer into 2 of the slaves to jump out and pop their one use item (then work as chaff). That leaves BSB, Seer or 2, warlord, assassin, and engineer in SV. I see some take minimum clanrats to keep the Seer in his own bunker. Not sure what you do when you don't take SV. Many lists have the Seer on a bell instead, but often thats still in the SV unit, as the SV are pushing it. In team Germany which won ETC this year, the Oliver Linke brought Skaven with this list: Grey Seer: General, Plague/Ruin, Foul Pendant, Dispel Scroll, 295 Grey Seer: Plague/Ruin, Power Scroll, 275 Chieftain: BSB, Halberd, Storm Banner,122 Warlock Engineer: lvl2, Ruin, Scroll of Shielding, 115 Warlock Engineer: Brass Orb, 65 Warlock Engineer: Obsidian Lodestone, 60 Assassin: Weeping Blade, Potion of Strength, 170 52 Storm Vermin: FCG, Razor Standard, 434 2x 40 Skavenslaves: Musician, Champion, 86 2x 20 Skavenslaves: Musician, Champion, 46 3x 5 Gutter Runners: Slings, Poisoned Attacks, 90 1 Doomwheel: 150 2x 1 Warp Lightning Cannon: 90 Total: 2400 Its an interesting list - two GS, one defensive general with dispel scroll and the other to cast 13th on 13 dice (and blow up without giving the opponent the general points). It also allows both plague and ruin - very adaptable for your needs. He went with a storm banner BSB so his SV can be a decent hammer with razor. With the nature of having to stick so many chars in one bunker, it looks like he took a 60pt MR3 to protect his general, giving him a 2+ to spells and his bunker 4+. I think he split the other sear with the scroll of shielding engineer. Maybe he took the two 20-man slaves as mage bunkers with an engineer each. Maybe the brass orb guy in one of the 40 slave bunkers then the chieftain and assassin in the SV. This might be the best I've seen for creating target saturation. Any other ways to split up your chars? I don't like playing where one Fiery Convocation can break my whole game.... Edited by WoollyMammoth, 20th September 2014 - 02:33 PM.
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| SkavenInAZ | 20th September 2014 - 06:33 PM Post #15 |
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I typically run 3 Warlock Engineers, a BSB, and a Seer in my 2500 point lists. I generally keep the engineers in the Slave busses and the Seer/BSB in a bunker. This only really changes if I have a MR token carrying Engineer or if I'm ultra afraid of an opponents list (i.e. flying blender lord, flying Daemon Prince, flying 3+ reroll Tz guy, etc..) so I have tons of challenges to slow him down. When facing one of the big killer spells -- Fiery, D13, Dwellers, Final Trans, etc... the problem becomes this -- your opponent is going to target your General and BSB no matter if they're split up or not. He has just as good of a chance of dying in a Slave brick as he does hidden behind the lines. Thus, why decrease the effectiveness of the Seer/BSB? Keep 'em in one place, let any spell go off other than the ones you're scared of, and kill the caster ASAP. |
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