| Wood Elves; Who's played against 'em, and how'd it go? | ||
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| Tweet Topic Started: 25th July 2014 - 01:40 AM (1,422 Views) | ||
| Grey-Clad Stranger | 25th July 2014 - 01:40 AM Post #1 | |
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Chieftain
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I'm playing a "friendly game" this weekend against a fella with the new wood elves army. I'm curious if anybody has had a chance to play against them yet and how did they fare? The only solid things I see in my list thus far is the stormbanner, and the spell howling warpgale. Other than that I would love to hear everyone's thoughts and opinions on the matter. Thanks! | |
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| Nicolay | 25th July 2014 - 05:51 AM Post #2 | |
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Stormvermin
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Recently been watching a battle report by SkavnInAZ where he goes up against a WE army: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckCJO1jprbk&list=UU_MfXQcnOmYBBCfv5M1l1eA Malorian's view on the WEs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlvsdQ_QD1w&list=UU-FKledL3ys1n_A27J5Xefw Here is the response to Malorian by the Sustainable Center: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYNbOiZeDvM&list=UUYabSJ6P_a21lxfZ1RlAW4A Reason for posting these as a reply is that you may come up against a completely unusual play-style when going up against WEs. Well worth a watch! Good luck! |
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| SkavenDan | 25th July 2014 - 08:54 AM Post #3 | |
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Doomwheel Fanatic
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If you face a balanced list you should be okay if he takes a specific anti skaven list he will snipe and usw true flight and howling warpgale and the stormbanner wont help at all. Take lots of small arms fire and the ruby ring to peel of a few elves at a time. Make sure your heros are well protected or expendable |
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| Grey-Clad Stranger | 26th July 2014 - 01:26 AM Post #4 | |
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Chieftain
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Thanks for the vids Nic! well worth the watch. Dan, pardon my ignorance (I haven't even skimmed the WE book at all) but if I'm reading you right, your saying that true flight ISN'T effected at all by HWG or the SB?! . . . . wow. . . So maybe a few units of gutter runners with poison and nets against cav, and maybe a unit of night runners with slings deployed via a warp grinder? Throw in 1 or 2 doom wheels for mobility too? Edited by Grey-Clad Stranger, 26th July 2014 - 02:14 AM.
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| SkavenDan | 26th July 2014 - 10:17 AM Post #5 | |
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Doomwheel Fanatic
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If he has waywatchers / waystalkers that should be your first target they need to die before they start pouring fire into your main units. True flight ignores everything so they are always hitting on 3s and champs on 2s. Doomwheels and shooting is what you need to handle them if you can out shoot wood elves you can butcher them. Take a ruby ring and warlocks and spam warp lightning and you should be able pick of his units. All they have to hurt your doomwheels are moonlight arrows if he takes them its one less true flight unit and treemen. You should be able to dispatch a treeman easily enough. Dont be too keen to go running after him he might have the stone that lets him teleport round the woods to make sure you have units facing the woods incase he tries to move. Edited by SkavenDan, 26th July 2014 - 11:23 AM.
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| Grey-Clad Stranger | 26th July 2014 - 03:26 PM Post #6 | |
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Chieftain
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Dan you are the man! Thanks for the words of wisdom! I will report back after the dust settles. | |
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| Priesmal | 26th July 2014 - 08:18 PM Post #7 | |
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Stormvermin
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My experience against WE is a little different. I saw one unit of waywatchers with Trueflight and almost the rest of the army had poison. They tend to destroy either my HPA or DW under a hail of fire, but they have a hard time taking down both before I make it into their ranks. Other than that it's a fairly straightforward elf matchup. Snipe their casters if you can, tarpit their cc units. Flnk where you can and outlast the rest. | |
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| SkavenDan | 26th July 2014 - 08:25 PM Post #8 | |
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Doomwheel Fanatic
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Waywatchers can't have trueflight it was probably the other skirmishing infiltrators Deepwood scouts |
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| Priesmal | 26th July 2014 - 09:22 PM Post #9 | |
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Stormvermin
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Whoa, so sorry. Fingers went off and did their own thing there. Really far off: I meant to type glade riders. He was using the trueflight to give them really far projection. Basically he had range of half the board at any time. So he had one unit of highly overpriced core, but the rest was all poison and could whittle down a unit every turn. |
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| TanKoL | 28th July 2014 - 06:50 AM Post #10 | |
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Grey Seer
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Glade Riders are quite a bad choice because they are Ambushers and - contrary to our Gutter Runners - that means they HAVE TO ambush, meaning they come in on turn 2 at best, without vanguard and without march move The Ambush rule very clearly state that they have to be deployed this way Storm Banner and/or Howling Warpgale are good choices as usual. Even if Trueflight arrows ignore those, Hagbane and Waystalkers are very popular choices as well for tree-huggers |
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| SkavenDan | 28th July 2014 - 09:59 AM Post #11 | |
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Doomwheel Fanatic
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Yeah Glade riders are annoying but MUST ambush is a big handy cap for them and they are so fast that if you get to flee chances are they will run of the board if they don't rally. Hagbane is a good arrow but I haven't seen it at all at any tourni they just move back and fire move back and fire reform move and fire always on 3s! |
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| dermal_plating | 2nd August 2014 - 03:26 PM Post #12 | |
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Clanrat
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I've had 1 game against them on Universal Battle using Skaven. I'd already deployed an all combat army when I was waiting for a game and the guy blatantly list hammered me with a nearly all avoidance Welf Army. What I learnt from that is that our toys die very easily from their shooting, but their core will also die very easily even to twice as many slaves. You need a solid shooting list to counter them IMO. I don't like castling, but I think the avoidance style can be just as un fun for opponents so I don't mind doing it against Welfs. 2x6 jezzails, double cannon and a ton of slaves to pen him in should work nicely IMO. Plus some horrible, horrible magic. |
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| Grey-Clad Stranger | 23rd August 2014 - 02:51 PM Post #13 | |
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Chieftain
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Well I've play wood elves now 4 times and lost all of the games. While their shooting is dangerous, I must say that it is their movement that got the best of me. The are in my opinion the Guerrilla warfare army of WFB. My gripe is that NO other army can move like they do. In a game where block style armies are the norm, they (GW) have decided to build an army totally opposite that. It flet like l way playing WFB against a 40K player lol. My last game I even used the old castle formation and hugged the back and side of the table, only leaving my one side and front exposed. I made him come to me and that worked, but just delayed the inevitable. | |
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| SkavenInAZ | 26th August 2014 - 12:34 PM Post #14 | |
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I've played 3-4 games against them now and think it breaks down to a few things: - What type of list are the Woodies??? Standard, Combat, or Avoidance? Each poses a number of problems, but you have options against all of them. Slaves are great. They can kill Woodies and the explosion will definitely kill more. Our two Random Movers are high priorities for them, because of the inability to flee. Our magic offers a lot of spells that kill them (Warp Lightning, Plague, Cloud of Corruption, Scorch, Vermintide (yes!), Pestilence Breath, etc.). If the Woodies are advancing towards you, you have a chance to kill them. So then, how to beat the Avoidance army? It takes all phases, from list building, deployment, and play. I've started taking 3 Wizards just because of Wood Elves. You'll also want enough units to park in forests, so they can't use the Moonstone against you, thus Rat Darts or Gutter Runners, or whatever you have. Finally, from what I've seen, the Cav Avoidance is the way to go, as they can run away, still stay within 30" and hit you with Trueflight. However, this also means you can move 10" and still be in magic missile range. So, unlike in most Skaven games, you'll want to have your Seer up front in the action more (watch out for Waystalkers!) to be able to blast away. - What tactics to use? Well, as I said above, chasing down the avoidance and blocking off the Moonstone are critical. But what else? First, understand what the Woodie is trying to do. He wants to kill a few units (likely your HPAs, Doomwheels, and WLCs) -- and then will hide the rest of the game, denying you the ability to get points from him. Guerrilla Warfare, indeed. Knowing this, you can deploy in ways that will give you chances at him if he wants to kill those units. You can also work with his spread out deployment and employ attempts to panic his units. This is a good thing to use your WLCs for, since there are no big targets... try to shoot the bunker, or, if not available, shoot at a weakened unit and try to panic it away/off the table. Same thing with Gutter Runners. Ambush them, and then use their huge threat range to pick off lone units or weakened ones that are trying to hide. - Magic The Wood Elves are dependent on magic heavily, perhaps even more than Skaven are. With so few numbers and mostly only bow shots, they have to have ways to kill large bricks like we'll field and they have very few combat options that will let them do this. So likely you're going to see a Shadow and/or Life Level 4(s). They want to use one of their big killer spells to assassinate high priority targets at low risk (Characters). Knowing this, you can plan accordingly. Obviously, take the usual spell defenses (Scroll, multiple wizards, etc.). But also employ tricks to make him keep his wizards out of range. Park your Hellpit close by, so that if he wants to get in range for those short ranged spell lores, you have a chance to get into combat with him. Same thing with Gutter Runners. If you win the Magic phase, you're likely to win the game. - Choices Finally, make your opponent make decisions. Declare a long charge (as long as failing it doesn't put you in a bad spot, of course!) and make him decide to chance it or not. Remember that if you get into combat with anything, you're liable to win and then put yourself in position to further do him damage. Your opponent will know this -- and may flee from some charges you're not likely to make. This also makes him make rally checks. If you can make a long charge or two, you'll be able to do this army a lot of harm, and collect a lot of VPs. Hope this helps! |
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| dermal_plating | 28th August 2014 - 08:04 AM Post #15 | |
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Clanrat
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Damn, that is insightful. Never really thought about that aspect of the psychology of gaming. Will definitely be trying this sort of thing in my next game. IOU1. ![]() Has anyone had any luck penning in the Welf fast cav? I've only tried it once and realised it required far more table top insight than I currently possess. My basic premise was using my army as a net. If your units are only 2.9" apart then fast cav can't move between them. I didn't have an army optimised for this so it was a failure, but I'm thinking 10+ 20 slave blocks with combat blocks/random movers waiting behind to counter strike or fill gaps in the line. If you keep closing in then it could funnel the opponent onto one side of the board where your nasties are waiting. Or, have the slaves deployed in 1 rank 20 wide across the board in multiple rows. E.g. ssssssssssssssssssss ssssssssssssssssssss ssssssssssssssssssss ssssssssssssssssssss ssssssssssssssssssss ssssssssssssssssssss ssssssssssssssssssss He/she can either try and break through, or go around the slaves. Either way you can have your wheel/HPA positioned for when he does. The explosion rule will prevent any overruns and slow him down for at least 3 turns if he wants to just charge the slaves. Either way it will slow the advance so you can pound the army with artillery before it gets up in your doodoo. Welves win with superior movement, if you can control their movement you can beat them. Its all theory right now, but im keen to give it a try. |
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