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How to deal with High Elves' +2 Ward Save; Dragon Banner of the World
Topic Started: 24th July 2013 - 08:45 PM (2,641 Views)
WolfyDragon7
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Hi,
Whenever i play my opponent he brings a dragon banner of the world.
Any strategies on defeating a unit with this?
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Why
Chieftain
What unit does he bring it on? Because it can drastically change how you should deal with the banner.
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SkavenDan
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Doomwheel Fanatic
Why is right this is like saying how do you deal with the trickers shard without saying who is carrying it. We need to know what unit he usually takes it.
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Rageaholic
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Doomwheel Driver
It doesn't really matter what unit. With a 2+ save vs most of our shooting and magic we don't have a lot of options.

Thin it out by shooting at it with gutter runners.
Cast dreaded 13 th on it. You don't do wounds so they don't get a ward save.
Beat it in combat.

Or if none of those are viable options, redirect it with rat darts, tarpit it with slaves and destroy the rest of his army instead.
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SkavenDan
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Yeah because those options don't really do anything to cav my HE list is all cav / chariots a 2+ n 2+ ward is hard to get through.

Re directing the unit out of the game is probably the best but I doubt a good playing will let you.
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Rageaholic
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Doomwheel Driver
I didn't say they were all good options. But they are the best we have. All our good anti-cav stuff doesn't work if they have the banner.
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TanKoL
Grey Seer
The only thing that works "well" against the Dragon Prince + banner is triple wither
not easy to pull off though ...
Otherwise, rat darts and slaves is indeed the way to go. Especially if you manage to slam a second slave / clanrats unit on their flank, that'll keep em pinned down for the whole game
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WolfyDragon7
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Sorry,
The units he usually brings the banner on is the white lions or a group of calvary

Thanks for the help
Edited by WolfyDragon7, 26th July 2013 - 11:35 AM.
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Vallek
Clanrat
Slave Tarpit + Wither + HPA flank charger. Use the terror to potentially break them on the spot and if not as long as you don't take warpstone spikes then all the HPA's attacks are normal melee attacks so the banner is useless.

Another option is the Plague Furnace with a unit of Plague Censer Bearers to flank charge... Save or die doesn't permit a ward save.

As mentioned above, the Dreaded 13th also does not permit ward saves.

Keep in mind, if you see someone using a BotWD death star just counter with double HPAs... cheese vs. cheese.


All of these options will not permit optimal use of the BotWD and easily shut it down. No matter what a nice fat block of slaves will take the entire game for a unit of HE's to chew through.
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Rageaholic
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Doomwheel Driver
Nice idea but I'm pretty sure all the censer based toughness tests are T test or take 1 wound. And all those beautiful S5 re-rolling attacks the PCB bring are magical :(

I hate tarpitting with slaves and flanking with the HPA. Usually so many slaves die that even with the HPA I lose combat. A nice big block of monks with the plague banner should make a fair mess of them though, as far as I can tell Elves of all sorts were created by clan moulder to make plague monks look good.
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Mash
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Warlord
Other then the suggestions said above attrition is the way forward against elves.

A unit of HE cavalry gets the same save against clanrats/slaves/plague monks with or without the BOTWD, If they've spent 50 points on that make them waste it. I've ended up playing HE's a lot recently and you just need to grind them down. Keep it in combat as long as possible, the longer a high elf unit is in combat against us the worse it will be doing.

If he's playing one of those horrendous cavalry death star lists just play someone else, it's not worth the effort.
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Sassafrass


I find in games wi my HE player friend that very few of his units have the output to effectively take down a big slave or clan rat unit. Especially models like wte lions. Sure they wound a very %, but they don't have enough killing power to chew through the unit fast enough. Aso, you'd be surprised how many elves with their crummy toughness and armour your lowly slaves can take down. Points wise, if you lose 8-1 against white lions, you are still tied in points.

A cavalry block probably has even fewer attacks and would be even better slave fodder.

So I guess the solution is the same as my solution to just about everything : throw slaves at it
Edited by Sassafrass, 27th July 2013 - 01:45 PM.
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WolfyDragon7
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Sassafrass
27th July 2013 - 01:45 PM
I find in games wi my HE player friend that very few of his units have the output to effectively take down a big slave or clan rat unit. Especially models like wte lions. Sure they wound a very %, but they don't have enough killing power to chew through the unit fast enough. Aso, you'd be surprised how many elves with their crummy toughness and armour your lowly slaves can take down. Points wise, if you lose 8-1 against white lions, you are still tied in points.

A cavalry block probably has even fewer attacks and would be even better slave fodder.

So I guess the solution is the same as my solution to just about everything : throw slaves at it
Yes, I just recently played a game where my opponent tried to break my line with an attack from the side but found he couldn't break the unit. The entire game we just kept dealing damage to each other and it seemed to work out pretty nice!

Thank you all!
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WarriorSkaven
Clanrat
Ahaha! A happy ending!
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xxrathammerxx
Stormvermin
I just played in a tournament with BotWD a unit of 24 Dragon Prince bunker with their general, BSB and a level 4 in the second rank (Bret style). What you say about slaves is all well and good except that his level 4 Lore of Life wizard could still cast Dwellers at my general's unit, making him panic off the board. I didn't think you could cast direct damage out of combat, but whatever.

Oh and thanks to the errata, the lore of life spell effect heals their cavalry models now instead of just characters and monsters like it used to when a spell is successfully cast.
Edited by xxrathammerxx, 16th March 2014 - 03:48 AM.
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