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The full-project challenge; Just an idea I was playing with
Topic Started: 24th February 2013 - 04:17 PM (830 Views)
Olorin the Ancient
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hannanibal
26th February 2013 - 02:34 PM
I would be very interested in that type of project but I'm not so keen on it being a competition. More of a step by step challenge, without voting and with comments and criticism along the way would suit me better but I'm probably a minority in that. I just don't like to think of painting as competitive as it takes the fun out of it.
It's interesting that you should say that. Skrits and I have been looking at starting something non-competitive along those lines.
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Jona
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Yeah, I'm tending more towards a challenge than a competition as well right now. Really make it a collective work rather than everyone for himself.
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Jona
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I'm affraid I've let this thing die a little, but maybe this is a good time to revive it.
I was wondering whether there's still interest in something like this, and whether the introduction of the Master Class series has changed anything, as there are quite some similarities between the concept of this challenge and the Master Class.
Is it different enough (in that you can choose your own project to work on, that everyone participating is both teacher and student, that it would probably be spread over a longer timeframe but at the same time less detailed sub-parts,...) or is there no point in having both?

As I see it now:
This would not be a competition, just a collective challenge.
Emphasis lies on making a coherent model, with plausible conversions and in which concept, model and painting really enhance each other.
Deadlines would be set with sufficient time in between so that this project can be something you take on next to other things you have running, not something which is to be rushed to completion.
The different steps would be: concept (drawing/mockup/whatever and getting the required materials) -> building -> painting.
Every one of these steps would have two deadlines (to give some more opportunity for feedback).
I still like the idea of compiling the step-by-steps of the different projects in some sort of booklet.
Everyone would be free to pick a project he likes (not even restricted to Skaven), but limited in scale to a single character or similar size.
Everyone taking part commits both to building his project and giving criticism on the work of others. It's a collective endeavor.

If there's still a certain entousiasm about this I'd like to put the ideas together into a definitive format next week(s) and maybe get this thing started in the next month.
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Grey seer White Paw
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I like this idea, and would be up for giving it a go. I am really slack when it comes to characters, so this should give me a good boost.
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Jona
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I tried to write out the guidelines for the challenge as I envision it now. Comments, criticism and suggestions are more than welcome!


Full project challenge - Draft 1 (A better name is required...)

In this challenge, every participant will complete small-scale project of his/her choice from concept sketches to a fully painted model. By making it a collective endeavor spread over a long time, it should provide the perfect environment to push yourself a little further than you usually do. The thinking behind this is that there are two crucial factors for a project to excel: plenty of constructive criticism, and sufficient time to think everything through and not rush the execution.


Who?
Everyone is encouraged to take part. It's not a competition, so it's not a matter of how you measure up to the other participants. The only aim is to push each other towards a result that exceeds one's regular work. Another thing is that the deadlines are set long enough apart, to give everyone plenty of time to enter this challenge next to any other projects you have running. The only requirement is that you agree to both approach criticism on your work as something positive and helpful, and to take the time to look at other people's work and provide them with feedback. There are plenty of very skilled people on this forum, with different talents and experience, and it would be great it some of the top-painters or converters would enter this as well.


What?
For this first challenge (if it's a success I guess more can follow) we'd limit the scale to a single model, like a character. There is not restriction on theme, so it doesn't even have to be Skaven-related. As the aim is to really think through every aspect of the model, a smaller project like that seems sufficiently challenging without being overwhelmingly complicated.


How?
The process is split up in several sub-parts, to allow for a lot of interim feedback, each of one having a set deadline before which an update has to be posted. Of course, updating should not be limited to these deadlines, as every picture or thought posted can provide an impulse for interesting comments and criticism. In the end, these works in progress will be compiled in a separate step-by-step guide per project.


  • 1: August 31 - Basic concept
    During this step, everyone chooses his project to work on and starts thinking about the execution. This should include every part of the model, from general theme to modeling to painting, as all these should come together in the end. Also include ideas on how to make it; which existing models or bits are necessary, what will need sculpting, and so on.

  • 2: September 30 - Detailed concept
    During this step, the basic concept sketches are adjusted according to the criticism and comments received on the earlier work. Ideas are refined, and all the materials required for the next stages are assembled. At the end of the month, everyone should have an exhaustive blueprint on how the model will be built and painted.

  • 3: October 31 - Basic modeling
    During this step, the general positioning and shapes of the model are explored. Everything is modeled to look as plausible as possible. This also includes the basing of the model.

  • 4: November 30 - Detailed modeling
    During this step, the modeling part is perfected. Little details are added and the general shapes are refined in accordance to comments received on the previous stage.

  • 5: December 31 - Basic painting
    During this step, color composition and painting techniques are tested (this can be both on the model itself or on test-models). The painting is used to show the qualities of the model built in the previous steps, and add new detail and depth to it.

  • 6: January 31 - Detailed painting
    During this step, the model is finished. Painting and basing are refined, and the project is brought to completion.



Be sure to leave your throughts and let me know if you'd be interested to enter.
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Ratt Baron
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Jona
This is a great idea and I look forward to following peoples work with great enthusiasm
As you know I have no sculpting skill or even basic knowledge, and I know I would make a pigs ear of a scratch built model so although I will follow this through I will pass this up .The only way I could do it is to make a character from other pieces and I know this isn`t what you intended so good luck with the project .

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Jona
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In that case my explanation wasn't clear enough, I guess. ^_^
It's perfectly fine if there's no or almost no sculpting involved. The only thing is that in this challenge, you should think about every aspect of the model. It would be great if you'd kitbash a character or any other model from different parts, as long as you want to think it through thoroughly, and do your best to make them work together as well as possible. As far as I'm concerned, you could even just work out a really intricate base for an existing model, as long as you want to push it as far as you can. The thing I intend to do is mostly combining existing parts as well, with only a little sculpting.
And you shouldn't hide behind the fact that you're not skilled enough. You only ever will if you're willing to try, and possibly fail a couple of times before getting it right. :)
So, this being clarified: interested in joining up?
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Ratt Baron
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In that case I'm defiantly in
I'm certainly not one to shy from a challenge and will start researching some fluff for a character.
Thanks

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Danbob87
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Great idea, it'd be nice to spread a project out and really think about it. I tend to sit down with my bits box and tools then dive right in, with sometimes mixed results... Count me in.
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Skrits
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I like the idea and but you already knew that, I think you pitched it to me before I even got in the council right? I think it is a good time to try it out look at this round as a beta and if it works and everybody is having fun. What i like about this is that it has potential to end up in detailed projectguides which might be future tutorial section material. The current schedule of official competitions masterclasses and challenges is quite full so there was not really time to take your idea, expand on it and make it part of our yearschedule but since your hosting it yourself now it should be fine.

So as a hobbyist I say: I'm gonna try this out and join in, but I can't promise I can slow myself enough to fit the timeschedule with some conversions.
As a Moderator I say: Let's give this baby a testdrive and see what grows out of it!
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Jona
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Great, thanks for the enthousiasm all.
Do you think the deadlines are too far apart in general, or is it mainly that you have too full a scheme to spread one project over a longer time?
I find it hard to put a suitable time on them, as on the one hand I think it will work great if we let some time pass over it, and everyone should be able to fit it in next to running projects, but on the other hand people shouldn't lose interest in their own and the others' projects. Any thoughts?
And does anyone have an idea for a better sounding title for this challenge? It's hard to find one that sounds natural in another language than your mother-tongue.
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hannanibal
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The bread that satisfies all hunger... the peanut that reverses time...
Jona I would love to do this but I have almost zero painting time lately so I don't know if I can commit. I managed a few hours painting yesterday but that was the first time in a week. Bit gutted actually.
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Jona
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I really understand. If you'd look at what I have managed to do the previous year, it's a little depressing.
On the other hand, that's an important reason the deadlines are that far apart. With every part (concept - building - painting) split in two and spread over two months, I think even with little time on your hands something will come out. Besides, it's not like it's a very strict challenge; if you miss out on a deadline, you might miss out on some comments from fellow participants, but you can still keep going, even if lagging a bit behind.
That said, you'd make me very happy if you joined in, even if it turns out you can't finish it or whatever. ^_^
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Skrits
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The timing is fine I am just not a patient guy. My conversions always go in waves. I can plan for weeks and then get stuck for weeks, but sometimes I am inspired and finish from start to end in a matter of days. It is just a matter of how inspired I am. I am kind of like a discovery writer expanding the conversion as I go, sometimes it goes fast sometimes it takes forever (writers block so to say). So having strict deadlines doesn't really work for me, but seeing as your not to strict with them it shouldn't be a problem.

I think it will be fun to see for me how my way of working looks when cut in smal sections.
Edited by Skrits, 5th August 2013 - 09:19 AM.
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hannanibal
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The bread that satisfies all hunger... the peanut that reverses time...
Go on then you bugger......I'M IN!!!
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