| The full-project challenge; Just an idea I was playing with | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: 24th February 2013 - 04:17 PM (827 Views) | |
| Jona | 24th February 2013 - 04:17 PM Post #1 |
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Warlord
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For quite a while now I've been playing with an idea for another challenge which might be fun. I've done some brainstorming with Skrits already, but I thought I could as well throw it out here for everyone to give his or her thoughts on it. There are a lot of painting competitions and challenges going on the forum already, but I thought there aren't really any conversion or scratch-build ones. So... Why not bring out a new challenge, where one project, large or small, is worked out step by step, from design until fully painted. I thought it would be fun to set up a system where every participant takes on a project, which will last over a couple of months. The idea would be that you can join in with either any suitably sized idea or a predefined one (for example: everyone works on a character on foot), and that it will be completed in different stages, every stage having a set deadline. This means that every sub-part is posted, and people can give and receive feedback between every stage (which isn't possible in the normal painting competition because of the anonymity). I also thought a set format to enter every stage would be fun, where every participant would be asked for a number of pictures and perhaps some text, which I could then compile in a standard format, so that at the end of the challenge we have a step-by-step progress of every project, which can function as an inspirational gallery or little booklet. This might also be an interesting addition to the tutorials section. The process would be something along these lines:
Feel free to throw out your ideas, or just give a shout whether you'd be interested in something like this. For the first one I would think in the direction of single characters or small unit-fillers/diorama's. Looking forward to hear from you guys! Edited by Jona, 24th February 2013 - 05:08 PM.
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| Ghaznub | 24th February 2013 - 05:13 PM Post #2 |
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Grey Seer
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I'd love to join in on something like this, would be a good reason to actually start doing some proper conversions for my own armies. I just have one question, would it be Skaven specific or open to all? I know it's a Skaven forum I only ask because for myself, the blessed of the horned rat have taken a bit of a back seat at the moment but I do regard this forum as my hobby home.
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| Sleboda | 24th February 2013 - 07:38 PM Post #3 |
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Pensive Penguins Fan
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I like the concept and would be willing to give it a go, depending on the final parameters. |
True scholars have more than just one book to study.
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| Kimzi | 24th February 2013 - 10:23 PM Post #4 |
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The one and only.
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Seems like fun! I would be quite interested in joining in with something like this. |
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| Olorin the Ancient | 24th February 2013 - 11:31 PM Post #5 |
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Skrits and I have actually been talking about the possibility of having regular conversion competitions since November. It's one of many things that we'd like to make happen in 2013, along with a greatly-improved tutorials section and master classes. However, it has also been suggested that perhaps the Painting and Hobby section is holding too many competitions, and that perhaps we should be cutting back rather than increasing them. I personally am encouraged to hear that people think it's a good idea, but we'd like to hear everyone's feelings and suggestions about this, good or bad. Meanwhile, though, any serious work on this from Skrits or me is going to have to wait at least a month, until we're done with the Golden Rat. We both have jobs, and there are only so many new UnderEmpire projects that we can organize at one time. But please keep the ideas coming. |
| - Olorin the Ancient | |
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| Grey Seer Kwokka | 24th February 2013 - 11:42 PM Post #6 |
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I'm a rat, I'm a rat, I'm a clever-clever rat!
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Definitely too many. Focus on de-cluttering the section first. |
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| nazarath | 25th February 2013 - 09:52 AM Post #7 |
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Chieftain
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I like the idea and would probably participate (given the time of course). I do however think the section is a bit cluttered and needs a bit more streamlining if it wants to house more competitions and projects. |
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| Jona | 25th February 2013 - 10:18 AM Post #8 |
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Warlord
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Great to hear there is quite some enthousiasm about something like this! For me personally, I wouldn't care whether it's a Skaven project or any other. I think the more people we could have entering in something like this, the more we can learn. Any ideas on what these parameters should be, Sleboda? Are you speaking mainly of the timeframe, the subject, whether there's a competition tied to it, ...? I do understand the issue of the Challenges and Competitions forum being overly full at the moment. To me the main problem with it would be the excessive amount of stickies, which makes both for a rather daunting amount of topics you feel you 'have to' read, as well as only little space being left over for the non-sticky topics. Perhaps a solution would be clustering the stickies a little more, so that there's only one per challenge of competition (i.e. one general welcome thread, one for the bimonthly painting competitions, one for the Golden Rat, one for the P.R.S., one for painting vows and one for the weeklong challenge. That's 6 instead of the current 13), where the general information is given and then there are links to the secondary topics, like an entry-thread, the current standing of the Golden-Rat, the gallery of fame, etc. That would result in quite a fair bit less stickies and I think even be easier to navigate through. |
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| nazarath | 25th February 2013 - 10:55 AM Post #9 |
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Chieftain
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The amount of stickies is overwhelming. More info should be in one sticky I think (and certainly only one sticky per subject). Info in it can be clustered with the spoiler tags so it's still readable. What I liked most about your idea is the timeframe in between the different steps where feedback is given. The current competitions only give feedback once the project is already turned in. It'd be great to be able to incorporate the feedback in the project while it's still unfinished. The one thing you'd have to keep in mind is that it should have more value than the army-threads (where a lot of WIP's are being posted and being commented on) and more body than a simple guided tutorial (or it really shouldn't be in the challenge tunnels). Maybe the projects can be drawn from a pool of random Skryre / Pestilence / Moulder wish-lists which the participants think of before the project starts (ie. "Build me an army worthy of |
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| Skrits | 25th February 2013 - 11:14 AM Post #10 |
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Conversioneer Extrordinaire
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When the Golden Rat is done we will be taking a look at making the competition section a bit less cluttered.
Edited by Skrits, 25th February 2013 - 11:15 AM.
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| Jona | 25th February 2013 - 11:19 AM Post #11 |
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Warlord
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Yeah, you're right that I might need something more to stand out from a normal project log. I think part of this could be the formatted progress files we could make, another important aspect is that you agree with a couple of people to work on things at the same time, and under the same conditions. I think this could very well be a better setting for constructive criticism than the army diaries are now, as I sometimes find it hard to be completely honest in those. Not everyone takes criticism as well or as happily (and the fun aspect is still the most important reason for a forum like this, I think) so sometimes it's hard to know just how critical you're expected to be. This challenge would be an environment where the projects are still individual, but it should be a collective endeavor of the participants to get every single one of them to the best possible level, really pushing each other further or in other directions than one normally goes. In this sense the split deadlines could work really well I think. Out of experience (studying architecture at university) I have come to realise that no matter how much you enjoy your work or hobby, deadlines do serve a huge purpose in pushing you that extra bit further and faster. This means that after each seperate deadline there probably will be a huge amount of progress to comment on, which might lead to a complete overhaul of the design but will nearly always result in a better project in the end. As I give it more thought, I can't quite make up my mind whether a voting in the end is desirable. On one hand, it might be an extra stimulus throughout the challenge, and I think a competition is always fun, but on the other hand it shouldn't really be the purpose of it all. We don't want people getting demotivated because they feel they have no chance on winning, neither should people keep their most original ideas to themself because of a competitiveness we'd introduce. On your second though, while a set theme indeed would only make it more fun, I'm a little affraid people would be hold back to enter if they have no use for the models or theme, or are working on another army at the moment. Especially since it's probably something that will soak up quite some time, you're probably more motivated to enter if it's of use for your gaming force or whatever you're working on as well. I'm not sure. |
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| Nurglitch IX | 25th February 2013 - 09:26 PM Post #12 |
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Avatar by count zero
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I haven't said anything because it's an idea stub, not a full idea, But I think a) Anything important enough to be stickied in a Competition thread is important enough to be LOCKED. While having a place for people to comment on BIG IMPORTANT TOPIC is good, having it *IN* big important topic can be troublesome. It follows the above that a locked topic can then be grown in an ordered fashion. The 2013 competition can let post 2 be the relevent January info, post 3 be the relevent March info, etc. Golden Rat may need it's own SubForum too. Currently it accounts for 50% of page 1 (including 38% of the stickies) and 40% of page 2. Obviously there are a lot of problems and work that needs to be done before any of that is feasable though, and work takes time. As for a 'modeling' competition, I like the idea, but I'm one of the one's Olorin mentioned who worries about to many competitions running at once. It was my understanding that the 2 month window on painting competitions was to give everyone time to get their entry ready. So right now we've got a Painting competition, an Army of the Year competition, a Short Story competition, I think there's a House Rules competition going as well. Will the general membership be active enough to handle a 5th concurant competition? What if some of the other areas that aren't Painting and Modeling want to run competitions as well? I'm a numbers guy, I get bogged in the logistics of it all. |
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| Olorin the Ancient | 26th February 2013 - 12:14 AM Post #13 |
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The Hobby Challenges and Competitions section does have way too many stickies. How would people feel about a subsection for the Golden Rat? What about a subsection for our regular competitions? Would giving them their own subsection organize them, or hide them away? I'm open to hearing people's thoughts. |
| - Olorin the Ancient | |
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| Nurglitch IX | 26th February 2013 - 04:49 AM Post #14 |
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Avatar by count zero
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Ideally we'd have 4 Stickies Annual Competition list PRS sign up sheet This Month's Painting Vows Hall of fame Gallery. Then the 16 posts below that would easily be enough for the last PSR score, The Discussion thread for the bi-monthly competition, the Entry Thread for the bi-monthly competition, Last months vows, etc. The only consideration would be stickying the voting thread when it opens, and the Week-long challenge rules when they happen. Then unsticking both when they're done. |
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| hannanibal | 26th February 2013 - 02:34 PM Post #15 |
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The bread that satisfies all hunger... the peanut that reverses time...
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Definitely need a sub-section for the Golden Rat. A place you can go and have it all nicely organised instead of scattered about would tidy up this tunnel no end. Oh and Jona, I would be very interested in that type of project but I'm not so keen on it being a competition. More of a step by step challenge, without voting and with comments and criticism along the way would suit me better but I'm probably a minority in that. I just don't like to think of painting as competitive as it takes the fun out of it. |
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I only ask because for myself, the blessed of the horned rat have taken a bit of a back seat at the moment but I do regard this forum as my hobby home.






