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A question about Beastmen. (For a friend); Having trouble finding all lores exept one in the Beastmen rulebook.
Topic Started: 13th February 2013 - 04:53 AM (1,258 Views)
Comicrat
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Hey! New here ar The Under Empire and at in the warhammer fantasy universe. I have hade friends playing as long as i can remember but i never had the cash to start playing. Now that i'm "grown-up" and have a fulltime job i can afford it and i've started on my eternal favourite: Skaven. I also managed to get a friend from work playing aswell, he started a Beastmen army.
The reason for this topic is that we were going to play our first-ever match and when we got to selecting spells we had a little problem. We could only find ONE of his magic schools in the Beastmen armybook. I searched the internet to se if there were some extra book you needed to buy or something, even though i found some info on the schools i found no info on where i could find the complete descriptions. So i am here by begging, can someone with the knowledge post the page numbers of all the schools and help me and my friend get on with playing?


Thanks in advance, vote Comicrats!^^
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CapAmr05
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The Beastmen do not have a lore exclusively to themselves, they (like many other armies) use one or more of the magic lores which are explained in the Basic Rulebook of Warhammer Fantasy Battles 8th Edition (or BRB if you don't have this book, odds are you won't be playing correctly anyways). Lores like the Lore of Beasts, Lore of Death and Lore of Shadow are possible choices, this should be explained within the Beastmen Army book most likely around the beastiary of the casters, or army special rules (if not, check the GW website for Army specific FAQs).

The realm of individualized Lores does not encompass the majority of Warhammer Armies; Skaven, Tombkings, Vampire Counts, Ogres, Highelves, and Woodelves all have their own defined lores, and even still some can access the basic Lores (Like Ogres can take Heavens, Highelves can take Shadow, Woodelves can take Life, etc).

The Big Red Rulebook (or BRB) houses the common Lores on page 490-499.

Because of the UE's stance on posting exact duplication of GW rules, no one should/ will be quoting you the exact verbiage from the various lores.

--Cap
Edited by CapAmr05, 13th February 2013 - 05:17 AM.
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Beastmen have the lore of the wild (under used and under powered compared to beasts). This is found within the Beastmen rule book as the OP stated. All other lores are in the BRB as stated by Cap.

Hope you had a good game.
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CapAmr05
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I didn't know they even kept the Wild lore, I've never seen a single Beastman player use it.

--Cap
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CapAmr05
13th February 2013 - 02:43 PM
I didn't know they even kept the Wild lore, I've never seen a single Beastman player use it.
That's because it is terribly poor.
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Comicrat
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Thanks for the replies, they really helped! This ignorens is acctually due to my lazyness.^^ I have the rulebook, but i only read upp on stuff that affected me playing and since all the Skaven spells are in the armybook (and i never even considered playing anything else) i just assumed the same goes for Beastmen. But i have now informed my friend of his (my) mistake.^^

I knew there where some restrictions to usage of GW material, just didn't know to what extent. That's why i used the word "Schools" instead of "Lores" and asked for pages and not specific facts for the spells. But I see now every single word is copyrighted ("Schools" lol). =P

The game went pretty good..... for me!^^ But because we were so unexperienced and had to check the rulebook all the time, a 1k game took about 3 hours. But it was still a lot of fun.

Again, great thanks for the quick replies, now my friend can read up on his magic before our next game.^^
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snowblizz
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CapAmr05
13th February 2013 - 05:13 AM
The realm of individualized Lores does not encompass the majority of Warhammer Armies; Skaven, Tombkings, Vampire Counts, Ogres, Highelves, and Woodelves all have their own defined lores, and even still some can access the basic Lores (Like Ogres can take Heavens, Highelves can take Shadow, Woodelves can take Life, etc).

--Cap
On the contrary. 11/14 armies have individual lores available often in addition to BRB lores.
Only Empire, Bretonnia and Lizardmen (figure that) do not have a race lore.
WoC and Deamons both have 3 lores (god specific) + some BRB.
Dark Elfs have Dark Magic. Pretty darn nifty lore actually, especially with relatively low casting values.

Fewest options are IIRC Skaven with only 2 options all others have at least 3 (usually race lore +2) although WE and Bretts cut close with only lvl3+ having a bigger selection. Oh right, Orcs&Goblins also only get two options Little and Big Waagh.

Dwarfs of course lack magic altogether.
Comicrat
13th February 2013 - 03:58 PM

The game went pretty good..... for me!^^ But because we were so unexperienced and had to check the rulebook all the time, a 1k game took about 3 hours. But it was still a lot of fun.

Again, great thanks for the quick replies, now my friend can read up on his magic before our next game.^^
Remember that the Beastmen army is woefully understrength compared to a Skaven army blowing on all cylinders.

Magic is one aspect that greatly enhances the army performance. Point you friend to the Herdstone forum and we'll whip him into shape post haste. Give you a challenge. :D
Edited by snowblizz, 13th February 2013 - 05:05 PM.
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CapAmr05
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Snowblizz, didn't realize there were that many Individual lores (I just rattled off the ones that immediately came to mind) since 8th edition Magic is overwhelmingly the preferred choice/ selection in today's game, it is obviously the preferred route to go with most armies that have access to them. So while 11 armies by your count have them, very few of those 11 actually ever use them, unless they're forced to (e.g. Lvl 1 & 2 Woodelves, Skaven, etc).

--Cap
Edited by CapAmr05, 13th February 2013 - 05:10 PM.
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Not to forget, beastmen are going to be the next release, are they not? Supposedly gonna happend within summer. New armybook, new models. Yay.
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13th February 2013 - 05:14 PM
Not to forget, beastmen are going to be the next release, are they not? Supposedly gonna happend within summer. New armybook, new models. Yay.
And Demons was supposed to be last month. Rumors are problematic at best.

The general concensus seems to be that Elves are next, either High or Dark depending on your rumor. Then about a 3 way split between Other Elves or lizardmen next. I see demons and dwarves in some peoples potential lists, but no one is saying beastmen that I can see.

but... Rumors are problematic at best, last month was supposed to be Demons according to almost everyone.
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Comicrat
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@Showbizz: I'll do that, he'll probably need it. ;P Was acctually afraid he would quit alltogether when i wiped the table with him. (He's the extremly competative kind.^^) We have another game scheduled for next weekend, I'll keep you posted on how i goes.
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snowblizz
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Comicrat
13th February 2013 - 06:06 PM
@Showbizz: I'll do that, he'll probably need it. ;P Was acctually afraid he would quit alltogether when i wiped the table with him. (He's the extremly competative kind.^^) We have another game scheduled for next weekend, I'll keep you posted on how i goes.
Extremely competitive and Beastmen is a very bad combination.

It can be done, but you need to bring the best Beastmen stuff and really know what you are doing. Best case scenario the opponent thinks "oh, it's just Beastmen" that's usually when it hurts worst. Of course being competitive with Beastmen is one of the few cases where it's almost impossible to argue anything other than player skill.
There is no options that are too cheap for their points or auto-includes (the number of auto-non-includes is impressive though).
Wraithseer
13th February 2013 - 05:14 PM
Not to forget, beastmen are going to be the next release, are they not? Supposedly gonna happend within summer. New armybook, new models. Yay.
I don't believe that for a second. But one can hope. What with them pimping WoC I honestly would expect Deamons for 40k and then fantasy first. That's been the talk.
CapAmr05
13th February 2013 - 05:07 PM
Snowblizz, didn't realize there were that many Individual lores (I just rattled off the ones that immediately came to mind) since 8th edition Magic is overwhelmingly the preferred choice/ selection in today's game, it is obviously the preferred route to go with most armies that have access to them. So while 11 armies by your count have them, very few of those 11 actually ever use them, unless they're forced to (e.g. Lvl 1 & 2 Woodelves, Skaven, etc).

--Cap
Interesting question. Of the new armies in 8th Ogres, TK and VC have to use their own lore at least once. TK on their highest lvl wizard, VC on their general (argued issue though) at least. Oh yeah, Ogres could go only Firebellys to "avoid" the selection but then they don't actually get a choice of BRBs either. VCs are of course encouraged to have additional Lore of Vampire casters to avoid crumbling.
I've seen people play Ogres and TKs mostly with their own lores and I think it's a mistake not to use them. A Slaughtermaster bubble casting +1S, +1T and Regeneration for large parts of the army makes Maw something of an underrated lore I must say. People I think are staring too blindly on the raw power of some of the BRB lores and missing that synergy is the name of the game of 8th. Beastmen players have learned to appreciate the power of augments and hexes.

Of the ones actually entirely free to choose Beastmen, Dark Elf and High Elfs are the main culprits ignoring their own lores. Beastmen well, anyone who's read the spells knows why. Dark Elfs, well you get the Power of Darkness anyway so picking the lores that complement their combat deficiency is very attractive. High Elfs similarly can use Life and Shadow to either fight better or massively boost their defensive capabilities. Wood Elfs also avoid their own shoddy lore (second worst in the game currently I'd say) by only taking high level caster(s).

Interestingly, most 8th armies are actually forced to pick their own lore to some degree.
Edited by snowblizz, 13th February 2013 - 09:31 PM.
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I don't believe that for a second.

I totally put my guess over the status of the actual models (and armybook) ... ... and forgot the business rules.
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Edited by Wraithseer, 14th February 2013 - 12:50 AM.
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if GW did it on an "oldest book first" bias than Bucket heads and tree huggers would have gotten an update YEARS ago.
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Let's hope they start. I'd love to do a WE army and brets are pretty tempting too, but ATM I just cant justify WE because of their massive lack of competetiveness.
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