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Random movement; Random thinking
Topic Started: 12th November 2012 - 08:03 AM (505 Views)
onlurker
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Chieftain
Rules (as I know them)
1. Rotate the direction you want to go. Roll 3D6.
2. If it makes base contact, it counts as a charge.
3. Resolve accordingly.

Clearly this random movement will bring the HPA into FLANK base contact. In this case, I think it's legit to count it as a flank charge.
The Charge only became a charge once it touched, so the exception (to always measuring charge zones at the start of combat) is in Random Movement, because you don't decide it's a charge until it's B2B, so technically you never have to worry about zones.

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Attachments: random_mvt_charge_zone_2.png (184.68 KB)
Attachments: random_mvt_charge_zone_3.jpg (54.27 KB)
Edited by onlurker, 12th November 2012 - 08:10 AM.
.........(^)\_/^)...........
..........\o\ /0/............
__mm ~\ o /~_mm__
.--'' '-'----W----'-'-''--..
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snowblizz
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Ph.D.
Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong....

P.74, Random Movement, third paragraph, first sentence says what now? Check it out.
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Little Wolf
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Chieftain
mutate: I didn't say anything :P
Edited by Little Wolf, 12th November 2012 - 09:21 AM.
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Nurglitch IX
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onlurker
12th November 2012 - 08:03 AM
Clearly this random movement will bring the HPA into FLANK base contact. In this case, I think it's legit to count it as a flank charge.
The Charge only became a charge once it touched, so the exception (to always measuring charge zones at the start of combat) is in Random Movement, because you don't decide it's a charge until it's B2B, so technically you never have to worry about zones.

Rules
0.Begin your movement
1. Rotate the direction you want to go. Roll 3D6.
2. Measure to see if your roll is enough to make base contact, if so you will charge.
3. Resolve a charge per the rules for charging.


So the one real question here, and it's one GW has never fully answered, do we go back to 2 or to 0 to start the charge. And the sub question: define Majority.

The general agreement on this board is that if a TO does not have a specific ruling, then any charge counts as a charge to the zone in which the PIVOT point of the model rests. That is, in the case of your images, a rear charge. The point of Impact doesn't matter, only the starting point.
Edited by Nurglitch IX, 13th November 2012 - 08:49 PM.
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Rat Fink
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Clanrat
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13th November 2012 - 08:48 PM
onlurker
12th November 2012 - 08:03 AM
Clearly this random movement will bring the HPA into FLANK base contact. In this case, I think it's legit to count it as a flank charge.
The Charge only became a charge once it touched, so the exception (to always measuring charge zones at the start of combat) is in Random Movement, because you don't decide it's a charge until it's B2B, so technically you never have to worry about zones.

Rules
0.Begin your movement
1. Rotate the direction you want to go. Roll 3D6.
2. Measure to see if your roll is enough to make base contact, if so you will charge.
3. Resolve a charge per the rules for charging.


So the one real question here, and it's one GW has never fully answered, do we go back to 2 or to 0 to start the charge. And the sub question: define Majority.

The general agreement on this board is that if a TO does not have a specific ruling, then any charge counts as a charge to the zone in which the PIVOT point of the model rests. That is, in the case of your images, a rear charge. The point of Impact doesn't matter, only the starting point.
I don't understand. Are you saying you can or cannot pivot to make contact and be considered charging?
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Nurglitch IX
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Avatar by count zero

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14th November 2012 - 07:37 PM
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13th November 2012 - 08:48 PM
Rules
0.Begin your movement
1. Rotate the direction you want to go. Roll 3D6.
2. Measure to see if your roll is enough to make base contact, if so you will charge.
3. Resolve a charge per the rules for charging.


So the one real question here, and it's one GW has never fully answered, do we go back to 2 or to 0 to start the charge. And the sub question: define Majority.
I don't understand. Are you saying you can or cannot pivot to make contact and be considered charging?
I'm saying that pendants going to argue.

The exact wording implies that the pivot is part of the move, and therefore creates a charge.
The exact working implies the zone in which the pivot point is in is the Zone into which you charge.

The exact wording can also mean the charge is what happens after the pivot.
The eact wording can also mean the front edge of the model determines the Zone into which you charge. Furthermore, this wording is independant of the prior wording, meaning it could be where the front was before, or after, the pivot.

As always - check with Organizer before the game begins for the Tourney ruling. If this is a friendly game, it never hurts to talk it over when sharing lists at the beginning.

The majority consensus on the Under Empire: Pivots count as movement for the purposes of "is this a charge." The point of pivot (center of model) is what determines the Zone for purposes of what facing is charged.
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Rageaholic
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Doomwheel Driver
I have a Horrible feeling you might still be able to abuse the rules here.
I don't have my BRB on me so bear with me a minute while I work this out.

If you will make contact then it is worked out as a charge following the rules for charging.

So if you contact with the side (not a corner) how do you resolve that? Since afaik the BRB only covers charging from the front?

Another thing is, can you place a unit so the charge will be illegal? Like positioning so you can only contact the front/flank but the charge would have to be a flank/front charge, so you cannot manoeuvre to make a successful legal charge?

I guess I need to go home and get my BRB and some models and work it out.
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Nurglitch IX
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Rageaholic
15th November 2012 - 08:41 AM
I have a Horrible feeling you might still be able to abuse the rules here.
I don't have my BRB on me so bear with me a minute while I work this out.

If you will make contact then it is worked out as a charge following the rules for charging.

So if you contact with the side (not a corner) how do you resolve that? Since afaik the BRB only covers charging from the front?

Another thing is, can you place a unit so the charge will be illegal? Like positioning so you can only contact the front/flank but the charge would have to be a flank/front charge, so you cannot manoeuvre to make a successful legal charge?

I guess I need to go home and get my BRB and some models and work it out.
I was working over this, and the biggest safegaurd to this is that Random Movement units can't straif (move to the side without turning). So the only time when we need to worry is this case:
Posted Image
Now, I will grant this isn't to scale, and we may need scale to get it, but...
A) Pivot until you hit the Grey unit.
2) Check center point, you're in 2-wide facing.

I now challenge you, using only 2 forward wheels, to get the front of that Abomb into contact on that facing.




Side note. If you use the alterate 'zone ruling' of Front face of the model, rather than the pivot point zone ruling, Then the Abomb is in the Long facing, and I can hit that in 2 Front wheels, though I've made a full 180 degree turn.
So here's a 96DPI scale model of the "Varsuvian HellPit."

Orange is the 1:1 scale base, red is the area under the pivot, blue is the 1 inch limit.

Anything who's 'top' edge is ABOVE the Red-Blue intersect can be charged in the near Parallell facing.
Anything who's 'top' edge is Between the upper and lower Red-Blue intersects can be charged in the 'top' perpendicular facing.
Anything who's 'top' edge is Below the bottom Red-Blue intersect won't be touched by a pivot.

As you can see from the dotted line, there's a VERY small margin in which the center of the of the HPA is within the near Parallell facing zone, but actually out of pivot charge range.
Posted Image

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Attachments: Varsuvius.jpg (33.62 KB)
Edited by Nurglitch IX, 15th November 2012 - 08:29 PM.
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