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When we get our new book...,; In a few years
Topic Started: 17th April 2012 - 10:57 AM (4,071 Views)
CapAmr05
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Mainstay was an ill-advised function in 6th where the core requirement was number of units and not percentage, mandating that clanrats must be present in every army in order to take (up to equal numbers) of different units. If it was brought back, it would cause Skaven Armies to be even more "identical" in 8th edition optimal builds than they are right now; which leads to really stale game play.

There's nothing wrong if someone wants to only us Night runners, or Stormvermin, or slaves as their core units without being required to take Clanrats to open those units up.

I know clanrats are an inherent part of every clan's forces, but just because an Army has a unit at their disposal, doesn't mean that particular unit will gets used in every operation the army undertakes.


With the step up process and make-way having actual written rules nowadays, I'd have a hard time seeing Lead from the Back come back; even though like the earlier poster said, it was my favorite special rule we got to use in that edition.

--Cap
Edited by CapAmr05, 26th April 2012 - 01:38 PM.
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nightsneek17
26th April 2012 - 01:27 AM
Anyone else actually a little scared by a new book? Much as with my Dwarfs I'm a worried about what GW are going to do with runes, I'm sure you've all noticed that our rats are pretty handy right about now. A pretty large nerfhammer is going to come smashing down on those expensive slaves bought with the hard earned warptokens :(
no, not really.

1) The new book is years away (I think)

2) Skaven are in the top three for hardest armies right now. There is a lot that could use some tweaking to bring the power level down.



I hope you don't have to worry about Dwars either. I really feel that GW will vastly improve that army with a new book. Sorry to say but I find dwarfs to be one of the most boring armies currently.
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Vermitt Stain
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Brain: There's only one ride that interests me - the incredible thrill ride of taking over the world! Pinky: Mmm, I think there's a height requirement for that ride.
SkavenDan
26th April 2012 - 10:36 AM
Sleboda
26th April 2012 - 03:23 AM
Vermitt Stain
25th April 2012 - 10:09 PM
i would like to hear why people think that tomb kings are so bad
Come on over to Tomb-kings.net. We talk about it all the time.
Don't do it you will be sucked into the nega pit of doom!

I think TK are OK people just want to change the army to fit the new ways of playing.
yeah does seem a bit depressing down in the sands but then there was not much discussion as to why that i could see, the most interesting topic i found was one sleboda actually made a comment in titled 'are tomb king players the worst in warhammer'.

this topic i found actually most illuminating(only looked at the first few pages though) and it seemed to me that most people where actually commenting on the fact its not that the tomb king book is weak but that people are not adapting/learning how they can be used effectively. Also they seemed to be in the view that it happens that the most negative members on the book just happen to be the most active ones at the moment.

@sleboda- in one of your post you state that tomb kings is the only army you struggle with and that it must be something to do with the book, but i would like to say that it may be that the way in which you play and think tactically does not fit with the current army because i like to consider myself a good gamer with my skaven, dwarfs and lizardmen with generally only 1 or 2 defeats in 10 for these armies, but when i play empire(old book) in anything above 2000pts i struggled a lot more and lost 2x as much. now empire were considered one of the stronger books for 8th yet they just did not suit the way i though tactically so i struggled more. This may be the same with you.

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Vermitt Stain
26th April 2012 - 07:10 PM
SkavenDan
26th April 2012 - 10:36 AM
Sleboda
26th April 2012 - 03:23 AM
Vermitt Stain
25th April 2012 - 10:09 PM
i would like to hear why people think that tomb kings are so bad
Come on over to Tomb-kings.net. We talk about it all the time.
I think TK are OK people just want to change the army to fit the new ways of playing.
this topic i found actually most illuminating(only looked at the first few pages though) and it seemed to me that most people where actually commenting on the fact its not that the tomb king book is weak but that people are not adapting/learning how they can be used effectively. Also they seemed to be in the view that it happens that the most negative members on the book just happen to be the most active ones at the moment.
I'm sorry, but I read this and my first thought was "but that's one of the primary theme of any undead story, that they can't Adapt to the changes that come with time. The players aren't bad, they're just SUPER meta!!"
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Vermitt Stain
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Brain: There's only one ride that interests me - the incredible thrill ride of taking over the world! Pinky: Mmm, I think there's a height requirement for that ride.
so the reason why tomb kings are considered weak is becuase their players play to much towards the fluff, it all makes sense now :D

still does not explain why my empire are not that good they always win in the background, i mean i always expect a charge of the reiksgaurd to come and break the enemy when i am loosing but just does not seem to happen


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Sleboda
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Vermitt Stain
26th April 2012 - 07:10 PM

@sleboda- in one of your post you state that tomb kings is the only army you struggle with and that it must be something to do with the book, but i would like to say that it may be that the way in which you play and think tactically does not fit with the current army ...
But the way I play and think tactically works well with literally every single version of every single army for the last two decades plus? Despite how different those armies are from each other?

Nah.

It's really, honestly, truly the worst Army Book GW has produced (in terms of on the table balance and capabilities). I don't expect to win more than half my games, but after 100+ games with this book, it would be reasonable to think _any_ player could have adapted to get, oh, I don't know, maybe 10 wins total. Not me.


Heck, I'm up over 35% with Skaven now, so even there I'm getting better. With TK there's zero improvement.
Edited by Sleboda, 26th April 2012 - 10:13 PM.
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Vermitt Stain
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Brain: There's only one ride that interests me - the incredible thrill ride of taking over the world! Pinky: Mmm, I think there's a height requirement for that ride.
but if it is truly that bad how come there are several people who have success with them, and i swear someone managed to win a GT or major tourney with a khalida army as well.

what do you personally feel is the main weakness in the book? and please don't say everything

i dont know how many points you play as i will admit that tomb kings do struggle at low point games but at what i usually play around 2000-2400 they seem to perform as well as any other army. it could also be that your gaming group is well adapted for taking on tomb king armies.

i would agree that you would expect some improvement, but like in many other things perfect practice makes perfect. you wont improve at the trumpet if you practice playing it the wrong way round.

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SkavenDan
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The auto crumble is shocking bad for them. If they had the same as demons. That would change them a lot on it's own.
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scratchydoom
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27th April 2012 - 12:16 AM
The auto crumble is shocking bad for them. If they had the same as demons. That would change them a lot on it's own.
how do daemons work these days then?
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SkavenDan
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leadership test on said value so if they need a 6 and roll 8 then 2 auto wounds which they get the ward save against so 33% chance to save those wounds.

If the TK got that it would bring them a bit more in line.

As it stands if they lose by 4. 4 die no saves no roll.

BSB is also uselss for TK and VC they should make that negatve like 2D6 auto wounds.
Edited by SkavenDan, 27th April 2012 - 01:23 AM.
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kore5022
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Id rather no book purely because of whats happening with items.
I really don't like the new item layout with only a handfull in the book then common ones, especially for races like skaven who have so many fun toys
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scratchydoom
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Thanks dan, and yes that is far better... i also agree with you on the standard bearer too, though 2D6 would be a but much, perhaps D6+2 or something. that way bone giants etc wouldn't crumble from ranks <_< OH NO! RANKS! SO OVERWHELMED!
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SkavenDan
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scratchydoom
27th April 2012 - 07:16 AM
Thanks dan, and yes that is far better... i also agree with you on the standard bearer too, though 2D6 would be a but much, perhaps D6+2 or something. that way bone giants etc wouldn't crumble from ranks <_< OH NO! RANKS! SO OVERWHELMED!
I wouldn't give it to the monsters I am anti monster.

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great horned idiot
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personally I think all we need is some new stuff it's not I don't want things replaced I just dont want all new rules and them doing stuff like getting rid of good stuff mainly the fellblade or I won't buy it any way Im focusing on ogres currently bie
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fellblade will stay (I think)
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