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When we get our new book...,; In a few years
Topic Started: 17th April 2012 - 10:57 AM (4,072 Views)
Skrits
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Conversioneer Extrordinaire

I would just like it if Skaven get a miniupdate. No major overhaul until 9th edition but maybe a handfull new models like night runners but more importantly an updated Skaven Army book that has a hardcover and has all the Errata and Faq changes fixed.
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Sleboda
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Vermitt Stain
19th April 2012 - 09:58 PM
i have a friend who uses tomb kings and they are very competitive
He cheats.


:)
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xxrathammerxx
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Sleboda
18th April 2012 - 05:51 PM
BTW, I'm thinking that the biggest reason the Empire got a new book (there are others, but this is the biggest) was warrior priests auto generation of dispel dice.

TK, Ogres, and VC were out of step magically with the rest of the system and each was brought back in line. Priests made a mockery of the winds of magic roll before.


EDIT: I did just think of something general I would like in a new book:

Reduce the randomness. Yes, yes, I know. "Skaven are all about the random!" Sure, it can be a part of the attraction for a Skaven player, but that doesn't necessarily mean it makes for a fun game. In fact, opponents often (in my experience) end up complaining vociferously when our stuff ends up going right. They say it's too cheap or too powerful. They never remember the times when it all failed for us, but we do. It just makes for such huge swings in the game experience. It's hard to just enjoy the game knowing that the 2000pts you put on the table may perform as if it were worth 2500 or 1500. Sure, all armies have moments of great luck, but most Skaven stuff focuses on luck, which is different.

There just has to be a way to keep the 'feel' of dangerous and wild Skaven stuff without it turning the game in an unbalanced affair for one player or the other.
I agree with Sleb here. In my experience I either massacre the opponent or get close to tabled myself. I was hoping for the addition of unit perks like warpstones for core infantry units which boost a random stat in CC but debuff on a 1or2 like O&G nets. I'd like to see Rogres cost brought down to 30 or so or them given another equipment or ability option and left as is. 6 point Night runners would be hell for most opponents and OP imo making huge firing lines but I cant think of how to mitigate that. BS 4(5) jezzails would be welcome. Id also like to see SV increased to 2 attacks each, but made a little more expensive to be fair. Someone said it before but vermintide SHOULD be a vortex and warplightning should be like fireball with 3 levels and rolls of 1 for the number of hits resolved against the caster. Id like to see storm daemon available like it was previously. I'd like to see skaven access to the 8 lores with an item without having to shell out for the hat. We live UNDER the EMPIRE, surely we're stealing magic books. It seems to me that we always rely on luck with cannons on units locked with slaves or sniping characters with the 13th, but I'd like to see the day when skaven win by relying on good strategic flank charges. It seems like even when we do flank elite units we dont hit hard enough to offset combat res and still lose. Even if we stay with steadfast the flanker ALWAYS presents a large counter charge target, and by the end of that 2nd combat we're lucky at best if we're not being chased down. I say make us more balanced and consistent, but if we MUST be random at least make it so that every unit can benefit or lose from it. Hell i wouldn't mind a skaven eye of the gods chart with half the results negative as long as there's a chance my rats can get buffed.
The blessing of the horned rat table: at the start of CC roll a D6.
1: -1 to WS, Init, S and T
2: -1 WS and S
3: +1 WS
4: +1 S
5: +1 T
6: +1 S and T
Edited by xxrathammerxx, 25th April 2012 - 05:12 AM.
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Nurglitch IX
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If I were to ask for one thing, it would be an addendum to SiN that gives us +1 per 5 models (rather than per rank) Maxed at +3, And steadfast by simple count rather than ranked count.
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Vermitt Stain
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Sleboda
25th April 2012 - 02:08 AM
He cheats. :)
i know your joking but i can assure you he does not, in fact he has only been playing since November and used to get hammered convincingly up until February when he started winning a few and now he is one of the best gamers at my club, now that he has grasped the main rules and how tomb kings are effective for him.

Admittedly i have never lost to him with my skaven, but the other skaven player in my area loses to him regularly now.

i would like to hear why people think that tomb kings are so bad, as although they certainly are not a click and win army they are competitive.

stained
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Decker_cky
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Sleboda
18th April 2012 - 05:51 PM
BTW, I'm thinking that the biggest reason the Empire got a new book (there are others, but this is the biggest) was warrior priests auto generation of dispel dice.

TK, Ogres, and VC were out of step magically with the rest of the system and each was brought back in line. Priests made a mockery of the winds of magic roll before.
Agreed on fixing the magic phase being the common thread in all the books that have been redone. Magical charges, easy dice generation and completely different magic systems seem to be what they're targeting. WoC have the puppet as their main issue in the magic phase, which doesn't really fit with the others, but it is something overpowered in the magic phase.

Here's the other armies that fit in the pattern:
Wood elves (only remaining magic charges)
DE (extra dice from dagger and PoD and no limit casting)
Lizardmen (free die on every spell, cupped hands)

Dwarfs technically fit too, but I'm not sure what GW would do to standardize their magic phase.

Quote:
 
EDIT: I did just think of something general I would like in a new book:

Reduce the randomness. Yes, yes, I know. "Skaven are all about the random!" Sure, it can be a part of the attraction for a Skaven player, but that doesn't necessarily mean it makes for a fun game. In fact, opponents often (in my experience) end up complaining vociferously when our stuff ends up going right. They say it's too cheap or too powerful. They never remember the times when it all failed for us, but we do. It just makes for such huge swings in the game experience. It's hard to just enjoy the game knowing that the 2000pts you put on the table may perform as if it were worth 2500 or 1500. Sure, all armies have moments of great luck, but most Skaven stuff focuses on luck, which is different.

There just has to be a way to keep the 'feel' of dangerous and wild Skaven stuff without it turning the game in an unbalanced affair for one player or the other.


I think the randomness will stay - possibly even be more random than now (eg, there is no bad results for abominations).

The problem with randomness is you put a failure chance on everything, and skaven have cataclysmic results for them. To compensate, the units either need to be cheaper, or they need to be more powerful than the equivalent options in other books (or work 'differently' like WLCs compared to normal cannons).
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Merhotep
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Since our book seemed built in anticipation of 8th edition, I also would not expect a new book for a LONG time, but of course I have a wish list as well.

First, assuming they do drastically shrink the magic items list in a fashion similar to all other 8th edition books, I pray that they restore "Lead from the Rear". The two most quintessential skaven rules to my thinking are SiN and leaders hiding behind the troops they're urging into combat. If there isn't a lot of flexibility to create hand-to-hand competitive characters (which reasonably SHOULD be difficult for skaven!), this seems both good game balancing and good fluff.

I'd hate to see the contrived 'mainstay' rule ever return; that's just a rule bail-out for a poor army list. It should make army construction sense to buy clanrats, rather than being an arbitrary rule to force in troops that otherwise were not a justifiable expenditure of points.

I liked Phil Kelly's "Hell Pit" list, so I wouldn't cringe from giving him a shot. It concerns me more that these books frequently don't seem to be very collaborative or well-reviewed, so the fear that he might include something a bit too off-the-wall that nobody else at GW reviits is probably valid.

Even if slaves or other stuff get a little more expensive, as long as we can still field large volumes of poor troops, that seems legit. On the flip side, I'd like further extensions of the concepts of 'expendable' and 'life is cheap'; more in line with the previous skaven codex (rat swarms should be expendable certainly, if not also giant rats, and blasting away into combat with clanrats or giant rats or swarms makes sense, plus experimenting with Skavenbrew should be extended to slaves and perhaps rat packs... stuff like that.) These are characteristic of skaven in a way that allows for unique tactics, which I think enhances the game overall, even if we need to take hits in other ways.

Having said this, I'm still in no rush to give up the current book, now that so much of it has finally been FAQ'd/clarified.

Merhotep
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Bolgri
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i would hate to see the doomrocket go... especially after my wrist-mounted conversion warlock :(

though less magic items may make sense due to balancing with the much larger list of "common" items in the BSB.
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Grey Seer Kwokka
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Merhotep
25th April 2012 - 10:33 PM
I'd hate to see the contrived 'mainstay' rule ever return; that's just a rule bail-out for a poor army list. It should make army construction sense to buy clanrats, rather than being an arbitrary rule to force in troops that otherwise were not a justifiable expenditure of points.
I disagree.

While I understand your point conceptually, the issue is that if GW go with what you're suggesting over re-instating Mainstay, there's a very fine line between Clanrats being a viable, alternative choice and Skavenslaves being nerfed into uselessness. Ideally, I would like it if all of the units in any book were viable choices for deployment.
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nightsneek17


Anyone else actually a little scared by a new book? Much as with my Dwarfs I'm a worried about what GW are going to do with runes, I'm sure you've all noticed that our rats are pretty handy right about now. A pretty large nerfhammer is going to come smashing down on those expensive slaves bought with the hard earned warptokens :(
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Sleboda
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Vermitt Stain
25th April 2012 - 10:09 PM
i would like to hear why people think that tomb kings are so bad
Come on over to Tomb-kings.net. We talk about it all the time.
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Slide Shade
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22nd April 2012 - 05:05 PM
I know this is selfish but having just started collecting skaven and spending so much money already I hope skaven don't get new models for a while. I would hate to have to replace all those clanrats and slaves. I feel the skaven models are still very good compared to others out there. :D
You don't need to worry about that. There's no chance in hell of them redoing the Clanrat kit... in fact, we should expect it to be the standard for 10+ years, easily.

The leading candidates for new plastic kits would be a Night Runner/Gutter Runner combo kit and a Plague Monk/Censer Bearer combo kit, and perhaps a new box of Rat Ogres in the updated Island of Blood style.
Bounty
25th April 2012 - 07:47 AM
If I were to ask for one thing, it would be an addendum to SiN that gives us +1 per 5 models (rather than per rank) Maxed at +3, And steadfast by simple count rather than ranked count.
What would be the purpose behind that? Making smallish hordes viable, or something?

I think the conga line hijinks it would produce would completely outweigh whatever positive you see in it.
Edited by Slide Shade, 26th April 2012 - 05:47 AM.
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Nurglitch IX
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Slide Shade
26th April 2012 - 05:46 AM
Bounty
25th April 2012 - 07:47 AM
If I were to ask for one thing, it would be an addendum to SiN that gives us +1 per 5 models (rather than per rank) Maxed at +3, And steadfast by simple count rather than ranked count.
What would be the purpose behind that? Making smallish hordes viable, or something?

I think the conga line hijinks it would produce would completely outweigh whatever positive you see in it.
Ok, I understand what you're talking about, but I don't see how you would use that to advantage. My thought was that a 40 man Horde width that is just as Steadfast as the Bus formation would shift the game back towards center.
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Grey Seer Kwokka
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Bounty
26th April 2012 - 05:55 AM
Slide Shade
26th April 2012 - 05:46 AM
Bounty
25th April 2012 - 07:47 AM
If I were to ask for one thing, it would be an addendum to SiN that gives us +1 per 5 models (rather than per rank) Maxed at +3, And steadfast by simple count rather than ranked count.
What would be the purpose behind that? Making smallish hordes viable, or something?

I think the conga line hijinks it would produce would completely outweigh whatever positive you see in it.
Ok, I understand what you're talking about, but I don't see how you would use that to advantage. My thought was that a 40 man Horde width that is just as Steadfast as the Bus formation would shift the game back towards center.
I don't see why our units would need the buff.
IT'S INSANE!: The army diary for Clan Kwokka (sub-sect of Clan Volkn), currently led by Krushklaw the Mad, the evincar of evisceration.
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SkavenDan
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Sleboda
26th April 2012 - 03:23 AM
Vermitt Stain
25th April 2012 - 10:09 PM
i would like to hear why people think that tomb kings are so bad
Come on over to Tomb-kings.net. We talk about it all the time.
Don't do it you will be sucked into the nega pit of doom!

I think TK are OK people just want to change the army to fit the new ways of playing.
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