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1000 pts for learning Skaven; New to WHFB and Skaven
Topic Started: 6th March 2012 - 06:58 PM (228 Views)
jamiltron


Hello, I just recently started collecting and painting Skaven, and aside from a few Island of Blood matches, I don't have much other experience. I've picked up Island of Blood, a few boxes of Clanrats, the Battalion set, a Warp Lightning Cannon, and a few random blisters from the "opened" section of my FLGS (Plague Priest, Gutter Runners, Warlord, etc.)

Out of this I threw together this list:

Warlord
+ Additional Hand Weapon
+ Warpstone Armor
+ Sword of Strength

Chieftain
+ Shield
+ BSB

Plague Priest
+ Flail
+ Dispel Scroll

Warlock Engineer
+ Doomrocket

30 Slaves
+ Musician

30 Slaves
+ Musician

20 Clanrats Bunker
+ Shields
+ Full Command

6 + 1 Giant Rats

19 Plague Monks
+ Full Command
+ Plague Banner

Warp Lightning Cannon

So that comes to 918 (if I've done everything correctly) with 111 models. With the remaining points I could feasibly add some more clanrats to the bunker, but I don't really have enough models for a 25+ unit (I'll already be proxying the IoB spearmen as slaves). I also have 6 gutter runners which is a possibility, as well as the Rat Ogres, IoB weapons team, or additional/different equipment.

How does this look for a general learning ramp up without being a push over? I'm intending on putting the plague priest in with the plague monks.

Any suggestions? Thank you!
Edited by jamiltron, 6th March 2012 - 09:39 PM.
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scalari
Clanrat
I would say the BSB is not really necessarily. I have had more luck recently putting a Chieftain or Engineer with each unit of slaves. Just a basic one which will raise their Leadership while fighting and make your tarpits last long enough for your hammer to flank. Some don't like it but it allows me to get the time I need to out maneuver my opponents. I would after that add a weapons team and beef up your clanrats that will help relieve the pressure off of the Warlord in combat.
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Nurglitch IX
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scalari
6th March 2012 - 08:12 PM
I would say the BSB is not really necessarily. I have had more luck recently putting a Chieftain or Engineer with each unit of slaves. Just a basic one which will raise their Leadership while fighting and make your tarpits last long enough for your hammer to flank. Some don't like it but it allows me to get the time I need to out maneuver my opponents. I would after that add a weapons team and beef up your clanrats that will help relieve the pressure off of the Warlord in combat.
This would work.

It won't give you rerollable saves, which is typically better than a +1 to Ld.
It will mean you can't shoot into your Slave units anymore.
It will cost more than simply buying a BSB.

Other notes:
~ Please don't post full points - doing so is a violation of GW IP, and can get us shut down.
~I count 892, but I may be missing something
~ Skaven Live and Die by Strength in Numbers. 1 unit of 40 slaves is almost always better than 2 units of 30.
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scalari
Clanrat
Bounty is correct in what he says. It all depends if you are planning to shoot into them and if you can keep the BSB in range. I favor CQB so shooting is not an issue.
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jamiltron


I think I will merge the two Slaves together. Would 40 Slaves be enough in one group, or should I go for more?

Should I replace the excess points with another unit of Clanrats if I only take 40 slaves?

How about the Warlord build? I think I will be keeping the BSB on the Chieftain.

Thank you!
Edited by jamiltron, 7th March 2012 - 05:39 PM.
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Nurglitch IX
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jamiltron
7th March 2012 - 05:38 PM
How about the Warlord build? I think I will be keeping the BSB on the Chieftain.

This is the standard by which I measure all Warlords: "CapAmer05s Warlord Build" - 228 points
Warlord + Warlitter + Shield + Dragon Helm + Sword of the Anti-Heroes + Talisman of Preservation + Trickster's Shard

There are ways to build a better one for specific tasks, but there's no better general purpose warold build we've seen yet.

((Also, the way I have it above, with cost for unit, but not broken down, is acceptable. It let's people see what you're paying, but doesn't negate the need for a BOOK while building.))

YOUR Warlord
Warlord - 143 points
+ Additional Hand Weapon
+ Warpstone Armor
+ Sword of Strength

The first thing that pops out at me is that with a magic weapon, he can't also use a secondry weapon. Since dropping that would free up a hand, you could take the shield.

Sword of MIGHT gives you +1S. For the point value of 5 slaves (or for 5 slaves, see what we did there?) You could upgrade to the sword of Anti-Heroes that gives +1S and +1 Attack for every enemy CHARACTER, in the unit.

Why we feel this is better: If your facing a rank and file unit (like a clanrat, or a stormvermin) the Warlord gets 4 S4 attacks. That's typically good enough. If he's facing something bigger, it's typically a character, and now he's going to get not only the +1S, but an extra attack. And if the opponent stacks characters, like Vampire Counts tend to, or like Skaven will, that sword just gets better.

On to defense. The talisman listed above is again more points, but it gives a 4+ Ward save. Since saves stack, this takes you from a 50% chance of doging the hit, to a 75% chance of dodging the hit. If we add in the shield we go to 3+/4+. Best part is, you get this *AND* armor. All it's going to cost you is 23 slaves. That's A LOT at 1000 points, but totally worth it after about 1300 or so.

On the armor. A naked (unequiped) warlord has a 4+ save. The armor gives... a 4+ save. Also you get that attack, but that's ALL it's doing for you. There's a point savings in swapping it out for the Helm, which will improve your Saves, but won't attack your enemies. Adding the Helm for 5 slaves we go to 2+/4+ (2+/2+ vs. Fire attacks). So what's the difference? a 2+/4+ will dodge a S4 or less hit 91% of the time. Against a S7 hit (a SOLID blow) your still over the 50% that the Warstone Armor gave you against the weaker hits.

So now, as I said, it all depends on how you USE your models. This means your build can be better. When is Sword of Might/Shield/Warpstone supperior then? When your hunting CORE. If most of the strikes your taking are S3, and most of the things your fighting are T3, with just 1 Wound, the Anti-hero sword wouldn't help, but yours would. The blowback from the armor will probably kill what hit you.

So about those last two items on the Cap build. The Other Tricker's Shard (there are two) forces your opponent to reroll a successful ward save. Remember that 4+ that took our 50% to 75%? This would force your Opponent from 75% back down to 67%. It's good when you're facing someone who's kitted out to take BIG hits. The Warlitter requires a Model, which you don't have yet, but gives you yet another point of Armor, a Wound IIRC, and 4 more attacks. At 18 slaves it's quite useful at any level, and there's TONS of examples of how to build one from the Clanrats you have now in the Painting and Hobby Section.

AS to what to do with the excess points. I'd use a couple to add a little magic to the General, then I'd buy more Plague Monks. I don't like running fewer than 40 in a unit, so I can run the 10 wide, but that's REALLY not easy to do at 1000 points. Still 25 is a good solid number. You may also want to consider dropping the Warlock to make the Priest a Level 2. Magic can make a huge difference, and that's your weakest phase at the moment. A level 2 Priest won't make you Solid, but it will make you not Weak.[/b]
Edited by Nurglitch IX, 7th March 2012 - 06:31 PM.
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jamiltron


Thanks for the reply, that was very helpful!

I would like to run more Plague Monks, the only problem is that I don't quite feel like spending anymore money before having played a full-fledged game yet, but that is definitely something to look forward to doing in the future.

In regards to that Warlord build - since he's on a mount he can't join units, right?

Thanks again!
Edited by jamiltron, 7th March 2012 - 07:02 PM.
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Nurglitch IX
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jamiltron
7th March 2012 - 07:02 PM
Thanks for the reply, that was very helpful!

I would like to run more Plague Monks, the only problem is that I don't quite feel like spending anymore money before having played a full-fledged game yet, but that is definitely something to look forward to doing in the future.

In regards to that Warlord build - since he's on a mount he can't join units, right?

Thanks again!
Depending on the mount he can join, but he doesn't always rank up: depends on the base. For skaven it's not an issue, as we can build on whatever base we want as they haven't released an offical model yet.

Here are some examples
Code:
 

R = Clanrat
O = Rat Ogre
W = Warlitter
B = Bonebreaker

RRWWRR
RRWWRR
RRRRRR
- Warlitter on 40mm square base

RRRRRWW
RRRRRWW
RRRRR
- War litter on 50mm square base

RRRRR BB
RRRRR BB
RRRRR
- Bonebreaker can't join Clanrats

OOOB
OOOO
- Bonebreakers can join Rat Ogres (note here 1 O or B = 2x2 Rs)

OOOB
OOO
- Bonebreaker on 50mm base


AS to monies, I completely get it. I wasn't lucky enough to get an Army box, so I'm running sans Bell, Furnace, Doomwheel, and HPA. Makes for some very intense stratigery not to be wiped in turn 2.
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Mathusala0
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The Evil Underlord

Bone breakers can in fact join units too, they just get no look out sir
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Nurglitch IX
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Mathusala0
7th March 2012 - 09:04 PM
Bone breakers can in fact join units too, they just get no look out sir
That's two. I'm having a serious brain issue today.
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izmerul
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jamiltron
6th March 2012 - 06:58 PM
I've picked up Island of Blood, a few boxes of Clanrats, the Battalion set, a Warp Lightning Cannon, and a few random blisters from the "opened" section of my FLGS (Plague Priest, Gutter Runners, Warlord, etc.)
wow ... back when i started that would have been 5k points and the biggest army in the county

1000pts for learning???
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