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European Team Championship vs. Contest of Champions (Calif.) Comp Rules; Who's been chewing Warpstone longer?
Topic Started: 14th February 2012 - 06:24 PM (453 Views)
Nurglitch IX
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SO I hear a lot about the Comp rules for ETC, and how insane they are, so I thought I'd share the Comp rules for the local scene, and see how you feel they stack up to ETC.

Just for reference, final scores are split pretty much evenly between Play Results (30 points possilble), Sportsmanship(30 points possible), Painting (20 points possible), and Composition (30 points possible).

So to score your armies comp score, Start with 30 points, and subtract them based on this list:
Contest of Champions (CoC) Rules - Sacramento
California
WFB Comp Scoring
General clarifications to the WFB ruleset:


  • No more than 12 Power Dice can be used in any single magic phase. If you start with less than 12 you can use items, spells, or lore attributes to accumulate up to 12 power dice but any excess are lost.
  • The wizard level and spell loss ability of the Greedy Fist (Ogre Kingdoms) only functions in melee.
  • The Vampire Counts Lore Attribute Curse of Undeath can be used to heal characters.
  • The Power Scroll has been amended: Arcane Item, one use only, 35 points. A Power Scroll can be used when the Wizard makes a casting attempt. During that casting attempt, the casting value of the spell is halved (rounded up). You cannot choose to boost a spell when using the Power Scroll.
  • All current GW FAQs are in use, please see this page for further details.

-2 for each 5% of total points (or fraction thereof) spent on magic items, abilities, gifts, powers, or any other similar bonuses after the first 10%. This includes any points spent on special characters.

-1 for each Warrior Priest after the first 2. The Arch Lector counts as 2 Priests.
-2 for the first Hydra, -6 for the second Hydra (Dark Elves)
-2 for the first Abomination, -6 for the second Abomination (Skaven)
-2 for the first Steam Tank, -6 for the second Steam Tank (Empire)
-4 per unit of Flamers (Daemons of Chaos)
-2 for the second Iron Blaster (Ogre Kingdoms)
-3 for the second Mangler Squig
-1 per fanatic after 6
-3 for each Ethereal unit after the 2nd. Remember that characters are units!

-4 if more points spent on Special than on Core. High Elves are exempt.

-1 for each 5 wounds (or fraction thereof) after 45 in a single unit.

-2 for each war machine after the first 3 (round up). In addition to units classified as ‘War Machine’ in the rulebook, this includes the following: Skaven Weapon Teams (count 2 weapon teams as 1), Doom Wheel, Salamander (per model, not per unit), Stegadons, Iron Blasters, Scrap Launchers, and Thundertusk. Count 2 Goblin Spear Chukkas as 1 War Machine.

Individual Items with Penalties
Folding Fortress -5
Book of Hoeth -5
Infernal Puppet -3
Cupped Hands -2
Pendant of Kaleth -2
Banner of the World Dragon -3
Dragonhide Banner -3
Cube of Darkness -1
Vortex Shard -2
Hellheart -1
Doomrocket -1

Quote:
 
Sportsmanship
There are 4 sportsmanship questions, each worth up to 2 points. As always, if you give your opponent a zero in any of these categories, be prepared for a judge to contact you.

  1. Your opponent was honest and accurate. This includes measuring accurately and consistently, not playing slowly or manipulating the game clock, and rolling his dice in the open.
  2. Everything in your opponent’s army was WYSIWYG, he offered to explain his army’s special rules before the game, and he offered to show your a copy of his army list before the game.
  3. Your opponent was a good sport, he resolved rules disputes amiably (calling a judge for a ruling is legal and allowed!), he did not attempt to exploit loopholes or ambiguities in the rules, and he made the game enjoyable regardless of who won or lost.
  4. You would seek this opponent out for a friendly game, he was an enjoyable opponent, and he captured the spirit of the game regardless of the outcome.

In addition to these questions, you will also receive 0-3 points from each opponent, dropping the lowest score. Please remember these scores should not be influenced by the outcome of the game! The criteria are:
  • 0 points: No fun to play against. Min-maxed, typical Ard Boyz list, no theme present.
  • 1 point: Highly competitive list. Theme is present, but the list was built with effectiveness and power in mind rather than theme.
  • 2 points: A good list with a decent theme. Uses some effective combinations and strong units but theme is given precedence over effectiveness.
  • 3 points: A fun list to play again, with a clear, coherent theme. The list was built with background in mind at the expense of effectiveness.


Quote:
 
CoC Paint Scoring Criteria
The following 10 questions are worth 2 points each. As we normally have a handful of people that achieve a maximum paint score, ties are generally broken by Player’s Choice votes. During lunch and between each round, please leave your army on display for both the judges and the players, with your name clearly labelled nearby.

  1. Is the army fully painted to a tournament standard; i.e. 3+ colors on every model, primer / undercoat not included.
  2. Are 90% of the models based nicely, beyond a simple layer of paint or unpainted flock?
  3. Does the basing for the entire army match?
  4. Does the army have an appropriate display board, painted and modeled to match the army itself?
  5. Does the army look like a cohesive force? Is the army visually representative of the force being played by way of theme, color or painting style?
  6. Do the character models and or center pieces stand out from the rest of the army? Based on size, heroic pose or special base, or ornate design.
  7. Do 90% of the models have their details fully picked out and painted? This includes but is not limited to eyes, holsters/scabbards, banners, buckles, spikes etc.
  8. Was care taken in the assembly of the models? Minimum mold lines (less than 20%), clean gluing, pieces line up per model expectation.
  9. Does the army have any noticeable conversions? This does not include simple weapon, head or arm swaps, but does include custom cut or sculpted pieces, multi-model combinations, greenstuff, etc. These conversions should be appropriate for the army and the game itself.
  10. Was the army painted to an above average standard? Advanced painting techniques, clean details, high quality painting, exceptional highlights, color blends, hand painted banners, symbols or glyphs, or creative modeling techniques used to showcase center pieces and HQ selections?


Added at Bounty's request

European Team Championship (ETC) 2012 Rules - Draft 1
 
Rules changes:

  • Characters will get "look out sir" versus the following spells that automatically kill models or automatically remove an entire regiment: Dwellers Below, Final Transmutation, Dreaded 13th, Infernal Gateway 11-12 effect. Normal requirements for lookout sir apply.

I. General Restrictions:

  • 2400 Points.
  • No Special or Named Characters.
  • Army used can be any of the currently published GW Army books. Forge World based army lists & units may not be used on the event
  • A maximum of 3 identical core choices may be taken (regardless of equipment and other upgrades)
  • An army may have up to 5 war machines and template weapons. Warmachines that use a template count as a single choice in this regard. All template weapons (from magic items, abilities, etc.) count, except for spells.
  • Max. 45 models with missile weapons with a range of 20”+ (not incl. war machines, characters and chariots).

Unit sizes are limited as follows:

  • Units cannot be more than 40 models nor 450 points (including all command, upgrades, magic items/banners). This restriction applies during the creation of the roster - unit size/cost may be increased during the game (for example - by joining characters to the unit). This restriction does not apply to characters.

Magic Restrictions:

  • Apart from Winds of magic, an army may only generate 2 PD/DD per magic phase. Including channeled PD/DD.
  • Player can use maximum 5 PD to cast spell (+ wizard level).
  • An army may use up to 12 PD during each phase.
  • You may have units/abilities that actually would generate more than 2 extra dice, but any excess dice are lost
  • Some magic items/abilities count as generating dice toward this limit.
  • “Count as” items/abilities may never exceed a cumulative 2 PD/DD per phase. This means that player who already spent his limit PD limit, cant take more items which “count as adding PD” or add PD from channeling during game (same for DD).
  • All modifiers are applied from the army list and will not change during the game.

Detailed description
Apart from winds of magic, an army may only ever add 2 dice to its power or dispel pool in each magic phase (unless army restrictions specify otherwise). Any dice added to the pool, regardless of source (generated, stolen, stored from previous magic phases, generated by magic items/abilities to boost spellcasting before or after the casting attempt, produced by spells, lore abilities, and so on) count. Excess dice are simply discarded and cannot be used in any way (i.e. - they can’t be stored).

If a dice is stolen from the opponent’s pool, but your army has already generated two extra dice, the dice is removed from the opponent’s pool and then discarded.

Some special items and abilities DECREASE the limit of power or dispel dice you can add to the pool. We refer to those as “count as” items. What this means is that, if your roster includes one “counts as 1 Power Dice (PD)” item, your army can only add 1 power dice (instead of the usual 2 dice) to the pool in each of your own magic phases of the entire game (regardless of whether the item is destroyed or used up).
Please note that you cannot have a combination of items that would decrease the limit of extra power or dispel dice to below zero.

Item restrictions:

  • Any item that auto-dispels a spell counts as generating 1 DD each magic phase.
  • Folding Fortress is not allowed

Army Specific Restrictions:

  • Beastmen: Beastmen armies have an extra 200 points for their roster (2600 total), All victory points scored against this army are decreased by 10% (excluding bonus points for banners, general, etc.), Beastmen can generate 3 extra pd instead of 2
  • Bretonnia: No Restrictions
  • Dark Elves: Hydra is a 0-1 choice. Max. 35 repeater Crossbows (including characters and excluding chariots) in the army. Repeater Bolt Throwers 0-2. Flying units (inc. characters on flying steeds) in the army limited to 0-3. Shades max 20 models per army, Pendant of khaeleth cannot be taken by lord characters, player may take up to 2 of following: Pendant of khaeleth\Crown of command\any number of wizards using death & shadow magic\Cauldron of Blood\Hydra.
  • Dwarfs: Each spellbreaker/spelleater rune counts as +1 DD. Grudge Throwers are a 0-2 choice; May generate Max. +4 dispel dice instead of +2; 0-3 of anvil, miners & rangers (in any combination of them)
  • Daemons of Chaos: Max. 28 Models per unit; Flamers are a 0-1 choice. All daemonic gifts are 0-1. Bloodletters and Herald of Khorne are 0-3 total. Daemonic Battle Standard can take either daemonic icon or gifts. Siren song cannot be taken by Herald of Slaanesh. Master of sorcery cannot be taken by Herald of Tzeentch.
  • The Empire: Steam Tank counts as a war machine; Tank, Rocket battery and Engineers are a 0-1 choice
  • High Elves: High Elves armies have an extra 100 points for their roster (2500 total); High elves army can generate extra 3 powerdice instead of 2; Vortex Shard counts as +1DD; Book of Hoeth counts as 2PD and 2 DD; Banner of the World Dragon counts as +1 DD
  • Lizardmen: Salamanders are a 0-1 Choice;Scar-Veterans 0-2, Terradons and Stegadons (any kind) are 0-2 choices; player may take up to 2 of following: Beclaming Cogitations\ Focus of Mystery\ Focused Rumination \Higher State of Consciusness; Beclaming Cogitations counts as +2DD; Cupped hands of the Old Ones counts as +2PD; Higher State of Consciusness counts as 2 discplines (takes two slots, but cost same points); Crown of Command & Higher State of Consciousness cannot be taken on 1 model; A maximum total of 6 Skink, Chameleon skinks and Skink Cohorts units combined maybe taken in an army (Cohorts containing kroxigor or numbering above 20 models do not count for this restriction).
  • Ogre Kingdoms: Hellheart counts as 2dd & 1pd, greedyfist on death magic user counts as 1dd
  • Orcs & Goblins: Night Goblin Shamans are 0-3 (max 3 of any kind of NG shaman); mushroom dice do not count as power dice in regard to the PD limit. Maximum model cap is removed for this army
  • Skaven: All Skaven rare choices 0-1; Gutter runners are limited by 2 units & 20 models total; Engineers are a 0-3 choice; Can take max 2 of the following: doom rocket, brass orb, storm banner;
  • Vampire Counts:To be revised in the following drafts.
  • Tomb Kings: Tomb King armies have an extra 200 points for their roster (2600 total), All victory points scored against this army are decreased by 10% (excluding bonus points for banners, general, etc.), Neferra's Scrolls of Mighty Incantations counts as 2 PD AND 2 DD. Hierotitan is worth 1 PD so long as it's alive. Sphinxes of all kinds: 0-3 per army. Tomb Kings may generate up to 3 power dice per phase
  • Wood Elves: Wood Elf armies have an extra 200 points for their roster (2600 total) All victory points scored against this army are decreased by 10% (excluding bonus points for banners, general, etc.), Wood Elves can take 4 of the same core unit instead of 3, Wand of Wych Elm counts as +1 DD; Only Glade guards (including scouts) count for max of 45 models with shooting weapons
  • Warriors of Chaos: Hellcannon is a 0-1 choice. Infernal Puppet counts as +1 PD and +2DD; Tendrils of Tzeench and Conjoined Homunculus both counts as +1 PD.

II. Pairings.
Will be added 7th February, after voting.

III. Scoring

Victory points scored as per the rulebook, with the exceptions that:

  • units that are at 25% or less of their original models yield 50% VP's to the opponent (characters, monsters and handlers, war machines and single models are unaffected).
  • units that are fleeing at the end of the battle yield 50% VP's to the opponent.

In both cases, bonuses (for generals, banners, etc.) are not counted towards the 50%. Units that are both: fleeing and at/below ¼ strength still only yiled 50% VP’s.

0-20 Victory-Points per game
60-100 Battle-Points per team, except for the last round, when the lower limit is dropped.
(The losing team gets 60 points even if they score less[except in the final round] – the winning team never gets more than 100 points, even if they score more. Real Battle Points [non-limited by the 100-60 bracket] will be used in case of the Battle Points tie as tie-breaker.)

Victory points to Battle points per game:

0-150 Victory-Points difference - 10-10
151-300 - 11-9
301-450 - 12-8
451-600 - 13-7
601-750 - 14-6
751-900 – 15-5
901-1050 – 16-4
1051-1200- 17-3
1201-1350- 18-2
1351-1500-19-1
1500+ - 20/0

IV. Scenarios

Pitched battle scenario

V. Simple Line of Sight

All units and terrain pieces are divided into the following three categories.
1. Blocking: Hills, Buildings and impassable terrain.
These block Line of Sight, even to other blocking terrain (You can't see through it).
2. Non-Blocking: Rivers, marches and swarms.
Does not block Line of Sight (You can see through them/it).
3. Interfering: All other terrain and units.
Does not block Line of Sight (You can see through them/it).

  • If you shoot through interfering units or terrain there is a -2 to hit penalty, only -1 for woods (never
    cumulative).
  • If shooting at a large target, units in buildings or on hills there are no to hit modifiers for interfering
    or non-blocking terrain or units, unless it is an interfering wood.
  • When such a unit is doing the shooting there are no to hit penalties for interfering or non-blocking
    units or terrain, other than interfering woods.
Edited by Olorin the Ancient, 15th February 2012 - 10:13 AM.
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Sleboda
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They stack up to ETC quite nicely.

Both are arbitrary, smack of individual bias, ignore that 8th provided internal counters and balances for nearly all abuses when played in totality, and generally make a mess of a wonderful game while at the same time assuming guilt/condemning players for things they have not done.

If the goal of these comp rules is to be just as awful, judgmental, backward, and out-of-step with the times as the ETC ones, then well done!



By the way, it's funny to me that the same section that has the Greedy Fist change contains a line saying all GW FAQs are in effect. Clearly they are not.


EDIT: Just saw that the Sportsmanship score is mis-labeled. It's not a gauge of Sportsmanship. It's a gauge of how willing your opponent was willing to deliberately try to pick the worst options in his list. This has little to do with being a good sport.
Edited by Sleboda, 15th February 2012 - 04:21 PM.
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Nurglitch IX
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Sleboda
14th February 2012 - 06:47 PM
By the way, it's funny to me that the same section that has the Greedy Fist change contains a line saying all GW FAQs are in effect. Clearly they are not.
Given the speed with which they update the website and the likely mid-December date of writing on these, it's possible that three days after the next tourney that change will be reflected on a completely unrelated thread in the forums...
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It's also funny how they address again that Power Scroll is the "new" one. It is actually in the FAQ.
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SkavenDan
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Eh this isn't the current ETC rules
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Silas
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No Dan it isn't.

Bounty
 
I thought I'd share the Comp rules for the local scene,


Edited by Silas, 15th February 2012 - 01:28 AM.
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THE BUNNY HAS AWOKEN!!!
THE BUNNY WILL EAT!!!
THE BUNNY SHALL FIGHT!!!
THE BUNNY SHALL WIN!!!
THE BUNNY SHALL INHERIT!!!
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Nurglitch IX
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Silas
15th February 2012 - 12:37 AM
Bounty
 
I thought I'd share the Comp rules for the local scene,
No it isn't.
I'd love to see them if someone wants to add the ETC rules (or if a Mod wants to mutate them into my original post)
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Olorin the Ancient
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Bounty,

I've mutated your original post to add the ETC rules in their latest draft version as you requested.
- Olorin the Ancient
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Nurglitch IX
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Olorin the Ancient
15th February 2012 - 02:00 AM
Bounty,

I've mutated your original post to add the ETC rules in their latest draft version as you requested.
Thank you. I think those are worse, because they're hard rules. The California rules can cost you some points, but if you want to spam tripple Abombs, and take 20 Warlocks for 300 points you can do it. You've just got to be sure that you never get less than a Overwhelming victory, and that your painting is Golden Demon quality.

I've mutated the first post to include sportsmanship rules and painting rules.
Edited by Nurglitch IX, 15th February 2012 - 04:59 AM.
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tezzmaniak
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Well seems to me that both tournements are trying to deal with abuse of lists (like the 3 abo list f.e.). I dont know about the Califinia tourny but the ETC is know for it's rock-hard abusive lists (been there twice).

I think most of the combo's that are banned or nerfed is stuff that you shouldn't bring to any battle in the first place, but then again i'm a soft player.

I must say that most of the time the restrictions didn't bother me that much making "normal" hard lists. Next to that some stuff is just plain strange... like the OK fist.

Well just my 2 cents

btw we are not the most competitive country out there... when i was there we ended in the bottom third :-)
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Thawzz13
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Sleepai dooggy :)
Those etc rules are ridiculous.

Victories and Losses (7)
Wizards (4)
Morale/psychology (2)
Characters (2)
Infantry (2)
Monsters/Monstrous infantry (1)
Warmachines (2)
Painting/hobby (6)

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SkavenDan
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Thawzz13
15th February 2012 - 10:17 AM
Those etc rules are ridiculous.
I know and yet I have had most of my wins under the current ETC rules irony eh? lol

I prefer bounties original version where people lost points based on retardation levels but alas it always changes...

Personally I looking forward to seeing the vampire counts ETC nurfs.
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Nurglitch IX
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SkavenDan
15th February 2012 - 11:30 AM
I prefer bounties original version where people lost points based on retardation levels but alas it always changes...
THey aren't my rules per say, but rather the rules I play under when I go to Tourney's. There's a single FLGS with an 11,000 sq ft gaming area (seriously it's rediculously huge) that can accomaidate 80 player tourney's and since they've been in the Warhammer business for nearly 20 years, they've got the following to pull those numbers. Apparently a lot of the regional 'ard Boyz winners play there.

I look forward to having an army big enough and nice enough to be able to go lose there too.
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tezzmaniak
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when your country is not so good you end up drinking beer and whiskey with the Irish, Dutch, etc.

Irish tactics at the ETC... get the opponent more drunk then they are, and they try that tactic on all rounds :-)

I should know, they tried it on me.... it worked :-)... twice ....
Edited by tezzmaniak, 17th February 2012 - 04:32 PM.
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Mathusala0
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the problem in all sense is that there is no real way to make perfect balance in a game like warhammer. with so many diverse rules and teams.

ETC takes you from one set of metagamers into a second set of meta gamers. because even with ETCs restrictions you can build some really crazy stuff.

bounty's local rules are a little bit better, but again, its simply going to change the metagame. not erase it.
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