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2000 Point All Comers Tournament List; I would appreciate any tips or improvements
Topic Started: 5th February 2012 - 07:29 PM (1,222 Views)
Venomouspiano


Hey guys
This is my current 2000 point list for an tournament at the end of this month.

LORDS
Warlord equipped with the Enchanted shield, Ogre blade, Talisman of Preservation and the Potion of FoolHardiness , on a Bone breaker Rat Ogre - 250 Points

Grey Seer with Seed of Rebirth - 250

HEROES
Deathmaster Snikch - 270

Warlock Engineer Level 2 with a Dispel Scroll and the Dragonbane Gem - 130

Chieftan BSB with the banner of Clan Superiority - 100

CORE
60 Clanrats with Shields, Spears, Full Command and a Poison Wind Mortar - 385

40 Clanrats with Shields and Full Command 200

SPECIAL
5 Rat Ogres and a MasterBred - 255

Master Moulder with a Things Catcher and 2 Packmasters - 61

RARE
Warp Lightning Cannon - 90

1991

The Mounted Warlord will be going in the Rat Ogre Unit whereas the Grey Seer, Warlock Engineer and Chieftan in the 60 Clanrat Unit.
Snikch will most probably be hidden in the 60 unit and the 40 unit's primary fuction is to divert fire and get in to combat quickly.
The Rat Ogres function will be to tear apart anything close to it closely backed up by the 40 Clanrat, however positioning the Rat ogre unit to get a flank charge.
Cannon will Kill the large units and or powerful units.

The Warlock Engineer level 2 spells, i'm hoping for at least Cracks call, and possibly Skitterleap to make effect, Scorch would be good to make units panic.

The Grey seer is going all Plague, The only spells i wont particularly be pleased with are Pestilent Breath and Vermintide.

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koffietje
Warlord
Currently looking for a polite way to tell you your list is absolutely c r a p ... I would like to explain it to you in a way that leaves absolutely no doubt what so ever that this list is absolute male cow manure...

Lets see.

*bows politely*
hello,

*bows politely again*

that list you made, *smiles politely*
SUCKS !

*bows one last time*

Man...I cant believe you are actually going to let me walk to my toilet to grab my rulebook...

Ok, here it comes...I'll try to remain polite here :-) (though its gonna be hard)

- Warlord on whatever with whatever for 250 points. Congratulations. You got an almost unkillable warlord... and you're gonna put him in an ogre unit. Now, lets say for arguments sake that you put them in front of ...oh lets say... a group of ...pfff... clanrats. the clanrat champion challenges you...you accept (why not?) And all other clanrats attack the ogre group. I'm pretty sure you will be able to kill the champion, and I'm also pretty sure you will kill a couple of more clanrats with the rat ogres as well. But you will need to make at least 4 and probably even 5 kills more then he does, to win the combat result. And if you loose the combat result, then you have to test leadership on a 7 (because one of your ratogres is bound to be dead by then). The opponents troops will still be steadfast...will you? Because if not, then you'll see one very expensive group of ratogres along with a very expensive warlord run away like hell... Hell, in the worst case scenario, they shoot your rat ogre troops and succeed in killing the 3 packmasters... wouldnt that be funny? A stupid warlord?

- grey seer with +6 wardsave. Wow, thats awesome, wonderfull, why didnt we think of this before?

- (cant believe I'm actually gonna stand up again to go to the toilet to get my armybook...) banner of clan superiority... D3 points extra to your combat result... For that amount of points you can actually get 6 extra clanrats. Thats an entire rank and one to spare.

- lvl 2 warlock engineer with a dispell scroll ... Exactly how many spells are you going to cast? You already got the grey seer, who can cast 4 spells... I know that you might want a spare mage, in case your grey seer dies... but really, the whole point of grey seers, BSB's and warlords is to keep them alive and out of combat as long as possible, so they can do what they are made to... (leadership, reroll leadership and spellcasting).

- spears... clanrats are meant to be put in a formation of 5 ranks and oh...about 10 files. (or is it the other way round? I always mix up the ranks and files). The point of those is to stand in front of another unit for at least two turns. This gives your other units the opportunity to flank and to deal out a hell of a punch. Spears give you an additional rank of attacks (ok,so I mixed up the rank and files...darn...). 5 attacks at WS3 and S3, thats probably gonna be 1 kill, maybe 2 if you are very very lucky. But again, thats a lot of points for only one extra kill. And you want them to remain steadfast as long as possible. So SIN is the way to go. By which I mean, drop the spears and take additional clanrats. (my whole point here is to let you get at least 3 units of 40 clanrats, or better even, a lot of units of slaves (50 strong each)) .

- 60 clanrats is a lot of clanrats. I'm guessing you want to put them in a horde formation... I wouldnt do that. They tend to get damaged big time. You want them to hold back, with as little casualties per turn as possible. If you put 10 in front, that means your opponent can easily run his own horde into it, or maybe 2 or 3 units. They will deal out a LOT of damage to those oh so important blockers. Take 40 of them, trade in the 20 spares for about 40 slaves with shields. (if you drop the spears, you'll even have some extra points to spare)

- 5 rat ogres and a master bred along with master moulder with a things catcher and 2 packmasters. Oh yeah, and your warlord. Well...they are frenzy so your opponent can lure them into combat within an 18 inch radius. So you probably cant flank with them. Thats the hard part about rat ogres. You have to block them as long as possible. Your opponent can easily come within 18 inch after his first turn and then you are forced to roll for a charge with those Rat ogres. Unless you block them somehow. But that means, that your opponent gets at least 2 turns to shoot at them and to cast spells on them (I would nuke that troop to hell , if I was facing your army...because they are the key to success...everything else is unimportant ). You may want to put a small sign in that troop saying "aim here to win". There are only 10 models in that unit. That means that during the shooting and magic phase, they only need to kill 3 of them to make them take a panic test. those packmasters die very easily. Look, I'm not saying its not a strong unit, because basically they are. They are a mean damagedealing unit with a lot of potential. You will deal out 25 amazing hits at great strength. With WS 3 however, thats gonna be about 12 misses. Still , with S5 thats gonna be 9 hits. 9 hits every turn. So your opponent, who has a banner and probably 3 more ranks then you do, has to deal out 5 wounds (4 if he's charging, 3 if you happen to get his BSB into close combat).

- WLC. Great choice!!! awesome !!! wonderfull. that WLC will be usefull for ...oh ...1 turn ! Because after your first turn, and your opponents turn, everything will be either in close combat or dead by then.




I'm sorry for my sense of superiority and sarcasm along the way...I'm just a pathetic looser who feels better when he can ditch out other people.

this is what I would advice you...
- if you want to take the warlord with the rat ogre bone breaker, go ahead... but you want to keep him out of combat. So give him a normal shield and then you get +3 armour saves. That should be sufficient to keep you out of harms way. Give your grey seer something slightly better to protect himself. Keep in mind, when you put them in a unit, they already get a look out sir as well. So you will loose one model ,and in the worst case, your characters will loose 1 wound out of 3 or 4. Keep them out of combat and they will last untill round 6.
- your core units are clanrats. I personally use them as well, but only in troops of 40 each. thats enough to hold the opponents for 3 to 4 rounds. Keep in mind though that for an army like yours which is very focused on magic and shooting, its better to have slaves. You can shoot into close combat if your opponent fights slaves instead of clanrats.
- Snikch isnt immediatly my first choice, when it comes to characters. He costs too much pointwise to be my first choice. For his amount of points you get 3 WLC's, you can take an HPA, you can almost take 2 doomwheels, ... I'm not saying he's a bad choice...but his points give you so much more options...
- The rat ogres and masterbred and the whole thing there, might actually work. If you dont put your warlord in there.I'm sure now a lot of people will scream not to use Rat ogres, but there are certain armies against which they can deal out one hell of a punch. Especially armies who dont shoot a lot (beastmen, vampires, warriors of chaos) Keep them as a unit that you can use, but dont have to use (in other words...for that amount of points, make sure you also got a spare unit that has a good alternative. 40 plague monks for example )
- Either get more slaves and more shooting power... or get more clanrats (at least one more unit ) and more hammer units. (with hammer units I mean stormvermin, plague monks, HPA, ... whatever hits hard and a lot).

The Skaven arent known for their extremely good characters. Its wise to invest in characters, because they have their uses. Leadership, rerolls, magic, ... But personally I dont feel they are up to the task of killing stuff. Well, they are, but for their amount of points, there are better options. (For example...snikch has 6 attacks for his points...but a group of 35 plague monks costs you almost as many points and will give you 50 attacks) .


there, I'm gonna stop now, because I feel this list doesnt need this much attention. Your battle plan is not competitive. You have a 20 percent chance of success, if you ask me.
against.................. won ............ lost

Skaven...................1...................0
High Elfs.................1....................1
dark elfs.................0....................0
chaos warriors.......0....................0
demons..................0....................0
dwarves.................2....................1
bretonian................0....................0
empire....................0....................0
lizards.....................0...................0
tomb king................0...................0
vampires.................1...................0
beast men...............1...................0
wood elfs................0....................0
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Venomouspiano


Hehe it's clear that you know a lot more stuff than me, i haven't been playing long, and this practically is a prototype list, so i do appreciate the constructive criticism that comes my way, however abruptly it is put forward :) my only proof to this list is that it has been successful in previous games, such as against Beastmen High Elves and Wood elves, in any case. remove upgrades/mount from my warlord, and also ditch snikch to put more hammers in, i'm guessing that would be a start, and Rat ogres, stay or go??
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Mathusala0
Member Avatar
The Evil Underlord

To put what koff said in fewer words, check the list building guide in my signature, it will give a decent outline on how to construct your lists
Posted Image
The Glossary of Common Underempire Lingo
The Skaven Guide to competitive list building (8th Edition)
The Skaven Castle Formation
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Graypaw


Mathusala0
6th February 2012 - 01:26 AM
check the list building guide in my signature, it will give a decent outline on how to construct your lists
Yeah , Using Mathusa's Guide people at my shop fear my rats. Won a good amount of tournaments too because of key things he talks about ,so thank u Math if u have not read it start now
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Venomouspiano


It's quite freaky that last night after the reading the first reply, i did refer to this link in an attempt to make a new list xD but yeah thanks :)
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Tanglewood
Warlord
Here is a list I've been testing and one which I'm pretty happy for 2k uncomped. It isn't a point-a-click so might not be suitable if you're just starting out, but it's not exactly difficult to use either (2 HPA). If you're starting out, I'd highly recommend the castle formation by math as it's very solid and forgiving. However, if you have a bit of experience and looking for tournament podiums, I think this would be better as it is more flexible and can deal with most situations with decent point denial ability.

I've taken it to 2 x 30-40 player tournaments and finished best general in one and top skaven in the other, playing against some of UK's top players so it's not just theory hammer.


Lord280

Grey Seer
Dispell Scroll
Opal Amulet

Heroes195

Chieftain
BSB
Standard of Discipline

Warlock
Brass Orb

Warlock
Doom Rocket


48Slaves
Musician

48Slaves
Musician

48Slaves
Musician

32Clan Rats
Shield
Standard
Musician

24Slaves
Musician


9Gutter Runners
Poison
Sling

9Gutter Runners
Poison
Sling

9Gutter Runners
Poison
Sling

HPA

HPA

5Giant Rats
1Packmaster

5Giant Rats
1Packmaster

5Giant Rats
1Packmaster


Generally GS in bunker with 3 slave blocks in front. This is basically the wall against his strongest unit. Clan rats deploy wide for flanking in. HPA either deploy together opposite what I want to destroy and break his battle line before rolling it. If he has a massive deathstar, put one in each flank so he can kill one and the other can go to town.

Gutter runners is slightly situational. Against some armies, i practically hold back with everything and let the GR wear out units (54 shots per turn!), in other games (WE/TK), they sit behind my line conserving points or waiting for main targets to be taken out. Giant rats do what giant rats do (discussed in another thread). Usually 1 warlock in each slave block too in case I need to move a block out of the GS range.
Edited by Tanglewood, 8th February 2012 - 01:26 AM.
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Mathusala0
Member Avatar
The Evil Underlord

Quote:
 
If you're starting out, I'd highly recommend the castle formation by math as it's very solid and forgiving.


eh, I would not recommend it to the average player, its not something you can pick up and go with, you have to know how to milk points with it and it uses a lot of units most people consider trash.
Posted Image
The Glossary of Common Underempire Lingo
The Skaven Guide to competitive list building (8th Edition)
The Skaven Castle Formation
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Tanglewood
Warlord
I would argue otherwise and would recommend the formation to anyone starting out skaven or going to small tournaments. It's hard to go wrong with a bell army (as long as you dont play against warmahine heavy army). 18" Ld + immunity to practically all 6th spells + big blocks + hpa is great at denying enemy points which is 1/2 the battle!
Edited by Tanglewood, 9th February 2012 - 11:08 PM.
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