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| Tweet Topic Started: 15th January 2012 - 05:18 PM (2,972 Views) | ||
| SkavenDan | 18th January 2012 - 02:49 PM Post #61 | |
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Doomwheel Fanatic
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@IronShark that is subjective I often march straight up to a unit so being within 6" is not so hard. Also it says that it stacks so if you had say 2 vampires in 1 unit and 1 vampire in the next unit it is possible to create a bubble of unpleasant leadership modifiers. The exact application and viable use of this I am not too sure of but are local VC says he is going to take 3-4 vampires. So we will see. |
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| Rakchew | 18th January 2012 - 03:42 PM Post #62 | |
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Hack 'n Slash!
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Better get to that casket fast. Cuz I would be throwing 5-6 dice at it burning down your ethereals that would be clumped together. First target would be the hexwraiths, mad free VP's. |
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| Sleboda | 18th January 2012 - 03:54 PM Post #63 | |
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Pensive Penguins Fan
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Indeed. The casket is the one shining hope. Sadly, I know this from personal experience, even 6-dicing it fails to get it off far too often. A savvy VC player will stop the casket and let all else go through (in this case). Two units of hexwraiths, who vanguard and then run into it (it's not a charge, so you can do it on turn 1) should see it off. | |
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| Wargamejunkie | 18th January 2012 - 04:10 PM Post #64 | |
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Warlord
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The Screaming Skull Catapult has magic attacks as well. Although the Spirit host ability to shut down just about all monsters will be interesting on the meta. Assuming you have some time the wraiths chilling touch ability will allow the to melt steamtanks since attacks autohit. |
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| Rakchew | 18th January 2012 - 04:21 PM Post #65 | |
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Hack 'n Slash!
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I got a game against them tomorrow night, 2500. I'm not bringing a hard list, more just stuff I want to try. (since my friend doesn't know any power builds yet) I'll be sure to do a Battle Report for it. Expect CARNAGE! |
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8th edition Skaven Tournament record 3-2, 2-1, 4-1, 2-1 East Coast Glory | ||
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| Grey Seer Exahm | 18th January 2012 - 05:37 PM Post #66 | |
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Gribbly
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Funny you should be talking about TK vs VC, thats exactly whats facing off in my group tonight. 2500pts on each side. I'll let you guys know how things go. |
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| IronShark | 18th January 2012 - 07:53 PM Post #67 | |
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Warlord
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Even if it does stack, I'm not particularly concerned, at least Terror-wise. You have to get those multiple vamps into 6" before charging, the target cannot be immune to psych, or cause fear or terror itself, and if the unit charges you after you move into 6" but before you charge, no terror check. I simply don't see that happening very often. What Terror will be decent for is making sure Ogres still have to take Fear checks, if you've taken the items that enhance Fear. EDIT: Have the book in hand now. Multiple Vampires with The -1Ld Vampiric Power do NOT stack with each other. I think how 'fun' the ethereal list is will be very subjective, and depends on how exactly the matches are arranged. If you know before-hand you're fighting VC, most any army should be able to deal. TK could pack in something like 2 Light wizards, with Casket, and maybe Hierotitan, and throw mass Light of Death/Banishment/Burning Gaze, and maybe a combat character with a magic weapon or two. Orcs and Goblins may have to leave out things like Arachnoroks, super-squigs, fanatics, and chariots for more characters, but even a hero-level Orc with the +1A sword and some boyz for static res will make short work of most ethereal units. Similarly, a Vamp player who knows he's up against Daemons can leave the Ethereal and Fear Enhancing stuff at home. But if your gaming group tends to favour pre-made non-specific lists, or tournament gaming... I know items/units being better or worse against certain opponents isn't new. EG, the Banner of the UnderEmpire is pretty awesome against High Elves, but against Warriors of Chaos you may wish you'd brought the Armor Piercing banner instead. But the Ethereal units and fear-modifying upgrades push it to such an extreme, it just seems like poor design to me. If it were up to me, I'd make ethereal something like "5+ ward save, improved to a 3+ Ward against non-magical attacks" and an appropriate price drop. Edited by IronShark, 18th January 2012 - 10:07 PM.
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No battle plan survives contact with Clan Skryre. -Lord Pox | ||
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| SkavenDan | 18th January 2012 - 11:26 PM Post #68 | |
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Doomwheel Fanatic
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mmmmmmmm I will have to reread that section. | |
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| Grey Seer Exahm | 19th January 2012 - 12:00 AM Post #69 | |
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Gribbly
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So that TK vs VC game I mentioned just wrapped up, Tomb Kings dominated the show, mostly because the player set out to dominate the magic phase and did so. He ran Arkhan the Black, the casket and a hierotitan and in the first turn Purple Sun killed the VC necromancer lord after a series of bad rolls. The remaining vampire didn't have Invocation of Nehek, but given the amount of dispel dice the TK player had, it wouldn't have mattered if he did. Just from my observation, it seemed like the VC army basically lacks the synergy it needs to be good. Sitting thinking about it, I'm not sure how units are supposed to interact with each other besides the obvious (Corpse Cart buff etc). There are almost no support units besides Corpse Carts or the Mortis Engine, both of which are easily dealt with. Having a vampire with a scary statline and powers is all well and good, but I've noticed that all people talk about is exactly that. "Wow, you can have a vampire with all this stuff that can do all these things.", but thats ALL people are talking about because the rest of the book is pretty underwhelming. Back when Ogres, TKs and O&G came out, I don't remember anyone talking about Lord choices as much as people are about vampires. When TKs came out people were talking about sphinxes, sepulcher stalkers and those snake surfers. With Ogre Kingdoms it was Ironblasters, mournfangs, maneaters and firebellys. These are the units that win you games, not the Tomb King or the Slaughtermaster or Warboss. I will admit, people were talking about some of the new units briefly, but hexwraiths, for 15 slaves each, are a perfect example of a unit that only looks good on paper, Terrorghiests fall pray to the same problems all big monsters do and are probably the most fragile of the current "big monsters". The Coven Throne seems like a slightly more combat orientated Screaming Bell, by which I mean it dumps your terribly expensive lord in a position where its easy to kill. The Mortis Engine seems like the only viable choice as long as it doesn't have the Blasphemous Tome to mess itself up and has the vulnerable lord problem . tl;dr The new book lacks decent support choices and synergy and I think it's the weakest 8th Ed book so far Edited by Grey Seer Exahm, 19th January 2012 - 12:37 AM.
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| SkavenDan | 19th January 2012 - 12:06 AM Post #70 | |
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Doomwheel Fanatic
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Or the general was a noob who maxed out on characters and didn't write a good list? How did the TK cope with the etheral units? let me guess he had only a few etheral models? |
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| Mathusala0 | 19th January 2012 - 01:12 AM Post #71 | |
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The Evil Underlord
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I place my money on this as well, I want to see what we do here first, then Ill give my judgments. |
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| CapAmr05 | 19th January 2012 - 02:16 AM Post #72 | |
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Cut the VC player some slack, the book just came out this week, you can't expect the Vampire generals to immediately have an ultimate killer lists without any previous play testing. --Cap |
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| Rein bringer of the cheese | 19th January 2012 - 02:38 AM Post #73 | |
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Warlord
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And you can expect the TK player to bring a destructive build to prove himself versus those pesky VC | |
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| SkavenDan | 19th January 2012 - 02:48 AM Post #74 | |
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Doomwheel Fanatic
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Meh I won my first 2 games with TK when I had never used them before ever against some one who played them frequently though 7th - 8th. I think a big problem with the VC is the temptation to waist lots of points on a character that OK is awesome but he is now that costly you can not aford for him to die. |
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| lockwood | 19th January 2012 - 02:57 AM Post #75 | |
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Chieftain
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i to feel that a lot of this book was just a way to sell more motels(i know big supers right i that is what they do) but here me out in the old book it for the most part was a ghouls play ground with grave guard for the hard work and i mean big units of them now with this book all those models are for the most part sub pare if i remember right grave guard are still good but are caped at the size of the unit but still good the ghouls on the other hand got up 2pts no stat ups. they took the only way to give them a save of any kind away. then they took away the ability to raise them beyond there starting size (at lest i have yet to find any thing that will) they took away the pregame march. all my ghouls are going up in my closet next to my witch hunters form 40k this make a bout 1/4 of my army needing to be replaced can you say $ then they made SW good really good for the points the only problem is i have like 40 models why because there bad but you need some banners in your army now i need like 4-8 more box's again $ then zombies they were bad now there good to about on pare with are slaves give or take do you think i have more then like 30-40 of these...no so in need 4-8 more box's again $ then there those new units these i expected to have to buy i mean ever time they come out with a up date your going to spend money which is fine 100-300 dollars to up date on big but that just it i did the math to get every thing i want/need will be like 800 dollars and i have a 3000pt army or had not sure with the point drop i m probable higher thanks to the ghoul's o and i don't even use blood k because i did not want to pay 90 dollars for them now they are 99 dollars for five at 90 you got 6 not sure why but hey(yes i know i could buy some other horse man and convert them but that not the point) ok thank you for let me blow of some warp steam i need that still is this not a little outrages when it comes to the way they treat ghouls in this book i think so so i am forming a group for them it called GOT A GHOUL or GAG p.s. plz do not kill me for these long wind post that was just a led up to a bad joke may of my point are for real Edited by lockwood, 19th January 2012 - 03:02 AM.
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