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New Vampire Counts book in hand; Send your questions
Topic Started: 15th January 2012 - 05:18 PM (2,973 Views)
CapAmr05
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I think fear becomes an increased risk should they build to attack leadership; skeletons and zombies may be bad (in a straight 1 on 1 situation), but the new focus appears to be on mutual synergy from multiple units; giving them ASF and then modifying enemy leadership down; inciting fear and using the "make them re-roll successful attacks" definitely swings the advantage into the undead's favor. And considering our typical infantry barely edges out a skeleton warrior in terms of stats, any swing against our combat ability is definitely a threat.

As you both have pointed out the ease of getting ethereals on the board is more prudent for most other armies, I'm personally more worried about the leadership bomb builds than I am the ethereals right now.

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Flem
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CapAmr05
17th January 2012 - 03:33 PM
As you both have pointed out the ease of getting ethereals on the board is more prudent for most other armies, I'm personally more worried about the leadership bomb builds than I am the ethereals right now.

--Cap
+1 Cap.
Although personally the increase of small sacrificial units in a VC army are quite stunning. Smaller fell bat units, 1 block ethereals and smaller batswarms. I mean 3 times 2 fell bats, 3 times 1-2 spirit host some wolves (with slavering charge) and some batswarms, combine this with summoned units being worth no victory points and you could find yourself getting redirected and speedbumped time after time.
Undead have found quite a few tricks to ignore all that makes them a little less in combat. Batswarms giving an enemy always strike last cancelling Undead their low I stats, and Ld bombing the enemy so he'll fail Fear tests and will have te re-roll hits. They might not be able of summoning like they used to, but they sure can make their own troops that extra bit durable to win an important combat.

Although with the new ethereals i might start fielding censers again, they have a purpose !!!

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CapAmr05
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Excellent addition Flem, I hadn't considered the sacrificial route (I haven't actually seen the book, just getting all my info second hand); you're right, they can be incredibly stingy with victory points if played that way.

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Although with the new ethereals i might start fielding censers again, they have a purpose !!!


I wish our Gutter Runners' poison still counted as warpstone (thus magical) attacks!

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hannanibal
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The bread that satisfies all hunger... the peanut that reverses time...
I reckon the skaven could be the best thorn-in-the-side for an ethereal heavy army. WLC, hellpit with spikes, PWM, WFT, Ratling gun, jezzails etc. etc.
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Flem
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hannanibal
17th January 2012 - 04:18 PM
I reckon the skaven could be the best thorn-in-the-side for an ethereal heavy army. WLC, hellpit with spikes, PWM, WFT, Ratling gun, jezzails etc. etc.
Not to forget spells like vermintide or cloud of corruption that can make sure multiple of them poof at the same time.

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hannanibal
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The bread that satisfies all hunger... the peanut that reverses time...
Warp lightning cast from multiple engineers (as has already been mentioned) will be excellent as well. The benefits of the other things I listed is they can't be dispelled. ^_^
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Scarr, Reincarnated
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Sleboda
17th January 2012 - 02:08 PM
On ethereal spam-

Indeed.


The list I am toying around with now has:

3 hero banshees
10 wraiths with a banshee leading them
Three units of hex wraiths
Three single model spirit hosts

...and a lot of zombies.

Sure, I'm going to take some damage from the odd magic missile, but I'll wager I can dispel enough of those that my 12 inch movement ethereal host will arrive at the enemy's lines largely intact. Start banshee screaming and watch things melt.
Even I would feel dirty playing Slaanesh Demons against that...
Edited by Scarr, Reincarnated, 17th January 2012 - 05:47 PM.
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Flem
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hannanibal
17th January 2012 - 05:41 PM
Warp lightning cast from multiple engineers (as has already been mentioned) will be excellent as well. The benefits of the other things I listed is they can't be dispelled. ^_^
Fair enough, but with this amount of Ethereals that could run around i think the ruby ring of fire will be seen alot more.
From 1 base spirit hosts i'm not afraid, if slaves charge them we win combat with 1 if he wounds with all 3 attacks so meh.

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IronShark
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Sleboda
17th January 2012 - 02:08 PM

The list I am toying around with now has:

3 hero banshees
10 wraiths with a banshee leading them
Three units of hex wraiths
Three single model spirit hosts

...and a lot of zombies.

I'm not criticizing you, rather the army design.
I'd hate to see that army on the battlefield.

With my skaven, I don't doubt I could absolutely wreck that army. I've got a lot of magic attacks, and as soon as you can hurt them, ethereal units disappear really fast, and those are some expensive models to be pulling a vanishing act.

Even the banshee screaming isn't that scary. Ld 10 in General's range and cheap infantry means a lot of units don't really care. Regen on the Abomb helps. And if I'm not mistaken, the Scream is a shooting attack, so the Storm Banner will work, stopping half of your screams when you get close enough to use it.


On the other hand, my other armies would just crap in their pants at that list. All my lovely monsters would just sit there looking sadly at some ghosts all game.


It just strikes me as a very unfun, drawn out version of Paper, Rock, Scissors.
"I brought Ethereal-Spam. You brought Lizarmen with a Life Slann and some Great Weapon wielding Saurus heroes? I WIN!"
"I brought Ethereal-Spam. You brought Daemons? I LOSE!"
Edited by IronShark, 18th January 2012 - 12:12 AM.
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Flem
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A blood curling cough a day, keeps the assassins away

How does the marching work?
Only models within general range can march i presume. Anw aht about models with the vampire rule?

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Scarr, Reincarnated
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Flem
17th January 2012 - 08:26 PM
How does the marching work?
Only models within general range can march i presume. Anw aht about models with the vampire rule?

Flem,
Models with the Vampiric rule or inside 12" of the General can march.
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I think the main issue is using the terror causing champions in the units with the added bonuses they can stack you could be facing a terror test on -3 or so before anything happens that might not seem so bad on the centre of your lines but if they do it on a flank and you some how end up out of generals range going down those few points really sting.
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IronShark
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I don't have the book, so I can't guarantee everything 100%, I don't thing they're going to give you a -3 to a terror test.

Terror tests are only taken when a terror causing unit declares a charge. The -1 Ld power has a range of 6", and doesn't stack. How many units get to within 6" before declaring a charge? It's pretty unlikely you're going to take a -1, let alone a -3.

They can stack Fear checks substantially. One unit with a Vampire in it could cause you to roll an extra dice (discard lowest), re-roll passes, and -1. A unit testing on starting Ld 9, within range of the BSB, will fail 52% of the time. 36% for Ld 10 in range of the BSB.

This again is another thing I don't like for the whole paper/rock/scissors aspect. Hey, you're Orc & Gobbos? With a Ld 9 general? Half the time you're going to need 5s to hit those WS3 Grave Guard, they'll hit you on 2s. It'll be like old times.

You're Immune to Psych? That Vamp player just wasted a lot of points.
Edited by IronShark, 18th January 2012 - 12:11 AM.
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lockwood
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that because the rock paper scissor game is the trap that will dived the fun list form the tournament list
toys go boom kill all man-thing, got to find more man-thing so toys can go boom again '

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Sleboda
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IronShark
17th January 2012 - 08:22 PM

It just strikes me as a very unfun, drawn out version of Paper, Rock, Scissors.
Exactly.

Most armies out there have the one or two matchups that crush them, and the one of two matchups that they crush. It's part of Warhammer life. Additionally, just about every army other than TK can build a customized force to take down someone's uber-build. That's part of the joy of so-calle "friendly" games - you get crushed one game, re-tool, crush back in return next time, then he re-tools and crushes you, and the cycle keeps going.

The friendly game matchups are probably going to be fine for dealing with the Ethereal Cloud (tm).

Tournaments, though, are going to be very much un-fun with this army present. I'll take a list with the Ethereal Cloud to a tournament knowing that as long as I avoid more than one bad matchup, it should be a cake walk in most other games. The sheer number of things I can pin down with this list should force the opponent into trying to win with maybe just one of his remaining units, and one unit can generally be dealt with pretty handily if that's all you have to worry about.

I _really_ feel sorry for TK vs this. Pin each sphinx with a banshee and scream it to death. Put zombies into chariots that have characters or the wraiths into chariots that don't. The rest of the army is crap, so send hexwraiths over a few smaller units for VPs. Lather, rinse, repeat.
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