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2 vs 2 game - 2000 pts each; Friendly game
Topic Started: 6th January 2012 - 08:39 PM (161 Views)
Alleras
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Hi everybody!

My group has organized a scenario-based 2 vs 2 game tomorrow. The scenario is quite simple, but it is based upon the control of specific objectives, to avoid a scarcely interesting midfield melee galore. More precisely, we will use 2000 points of Skaven and 2000 points of Vampire Counts versus Empire and Tomb Kings. Here is my list:

1 Grey Seer @ 310.0 Pts
General; Magic Level 4
Talisman of Preservation [45.0]
Dispel Scroll [25.0]

1 Chieftain @ 90.0 Pts
Heavy Armour; Shield; Battle Standard
Tail Weapon [8.0]
Dragonhelm [10.0]

15 Stormvermin @ 255.0 Pts
Halberd; Heavy Armour; Shields; Standard; Musician
Storm Banner [50.0]

1 Weapon Team @ [70.0] Pts
Warpfire Thrower

1 Plague Priest @ 565.0 Pts
Magic Lvl2; Frenzy; 2ndWeapon; Plague Furnace
Ironcurse Icon [5.0]
The Foul Pendant [30.0]
Tail Weapon [8.0]

1 Plague Furnace @ [385.0] Pts

3 Monk Crew @ [0.0] Pts

30 Plague Monks @ [235.0] Pts
Frenzy; 2ndWeapon; Standard; Musician
Banner of the Eternal Flame [10.0]

52 Clanrats @ 337.0 Pts
Spear; Light Armour; Shields; Standard; Musician

1 Weapon Team @ [65.0] Pts
Poisoned Wind Mortar

1 Warlock Engineer @ 45.0 Pts
Doom Rocket [30.0]

62 Skavenslaves @ 157.0 Pts
Shields; Slave Musician

1 Warp-lightning Warp Cannon @ 90.0 Pts
3 Warp Crew @ [0.0] Pts

3 Rat Ogres @ 128.0 Pts
Frenzy

1 Rat Ogre Packmasters @ [8.0] Pts
Whip; Light Armour

5 Giant Rats @ 23.0 Pts

1 Packmasters @ [8.0] Pts
Whip; Light Armour

Models in Army: 176


Total Army Cost: 2000.0


It is important to underline that I am using almost every Skaven miniature I own (I have ordered more clanrats/skavenslaves, HPA and gutter runners, but I still haven't those pieces). What do you think about the list in general?
Thank you in advance for any suggestion/comment.
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koffietje
Warlord
Mathusala is gonna have a great time responding to this one. Allthough I think I can shorten it up for him : you waste too many points on things that dont do much.

Here we go:
- you have a lvl 4 grey seer and a lvl 2 plague priest. Your friend is probably gonna get himself a mage too and then you both start bickering about how many dices to use for euhm...3 spells? The trick is to work together. 2 mages is more then sufficient. Remember that 2D6 gives you an average of 6 dice.
- I dont think 15 stormvermin will be able to do much and will probably be sitting ducks in the shooting phase.
- The WFT is not really bad, but at 1 wound , its not the best option either. I would trade it in for a WLC instead. Or gutter runners. (Just take 5 spare clanrats, paint them black and say "TADAA! My gutter runners!" If you bring it with enough convinction, people will believe you)
- A tail weapon ? Well, ok, I understand its usefull. You know, one extra attack and blabla... But if you put those points in an extra monk or in two clanrats or 8 slaves...you get even more hits for the same amount of points.
- Dont give spears to clanrats. They dont get to use them in the turn they charge, and clanrats arent really known for doing much damage. So drop the spears. (HAH ! I beat you to it, Mathusala ! )
- those rat ogres are kind of a dangerous thing to use. Keep in mind that they only need to kill 25 percent of a unit to get them to take a panic test in the shooting phase. So if they shoot down your packmaster, your Ratogres will first have to take a panic test, and then a stupidity test every turn. And if they run at the start of your game, then this might cause a cascade of panictests through all your units. You dont want that to happen. I would suggest you to leave the rat ogres at home.
- dont make the 52 clanrat unit. Only make it 40 . It will hold for 3 or more rounds against most foes. Then also diminish the amount of slaves to 40. This will give you enough spare clanrats to make another unit of slaves or clanrats.

Make your list together with your companion. And discuss a tactic with him / her as well. From what I know about vampires, is that they dont have that much shooting power. So it might be wise for you to support him with that. And definetely discuss the mages... Otherwise you're wasting a lot of points.
against.................. won ............ lost

Skaven...................1...................0
High Elfs.................1....................1
dark elfs.................0....................0
chaos warriors.......0....................0
demons..................0....................0
dwarves.................2....................1
bretonian................0....................0
empire....................0....................0
lizards.....................0...................0
tomb king................0...................0
vampires.................1...................0
beast men...............1...................0
wood elfs................0....................0
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lockwood
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Chieftain
hes is going to have fun i cant wait to see it
toys go boom kill all man-thing, got to find more man-thing so toys can go boom again '

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Mathusala0
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The Evil Underlord

I actually saw it, knew I was tired, was aware that I might start crying, and decided to return at a later time.

1 Grey Seer @ 310.0 Pts
General; Magic Level 4
Talisman of Preservation [45.0]
Dispel Scroll [25.0]

hes fine

1 Chieftain @ 90.0 Pts
Heavy Armour; Shield; Battle Standard
Tail Weapon [8.0]
Dragonhelm [10.0]

drop the tail weapon, drop the helm, buy a shield. you don't want him in combat, at the same time you can buy a shield for less points than the helmet.

15 Stormvermin @ 255.0 Pts
Halberd; Heavy Armour; Shields; Standard; Musician
Storm Banner [50.0]

Will die fast, if they are going to be a SB carrier drop all but ten and dont take any command but banner. dont waste points.

1 Weapon Team @ [70.0] Pts
Warpfire Thrower

prefer a wind mortar but Ill come back to this.

1 Plague Priest @ 565.0 Pts
Magic Lvl2; Frenzy; 2ndWeapon; Plague Furnace
Ironcurse Icon [5.0]
The Foul Pendant [30.0]
Tail Weapon [8.0]

Get a flail rather than extra hand weapon. Drop the pendant. drop the tail weapon. drop the level 2, way to many points being dumped into a very frail character, one cannon shot will make you cry.

30 Plague Monks @ [235.0] Pts
Frenzy; 2ndWeapon; Standard; Musician
Banner of the Eternal Flame [10.0]

why flame? plague banner, razor banner, hell even underempire, all much better, we have tons of flaming spells and abilities, we do not to waste our banner on it.

52 Clanrats @ 337.0 Pts
Spear; Light Armour; Shields; Standard; Musician

drops spears, invest in 2 units of 30, or some slaves.

1 Weapon Team @ [65.0] Pts
Poisoned Wind Mortar

fine

1 Warlock Engineer @ 45.0 Pts
Doom Rocket [30.0]

fine

62 Skavenslaves @ 157.0 Pts
Shields; Slave Musician

to big, it wont fit in a 12" deployment zone and leave an inch anymore, drop at least 2, personally id try and get 2 units of 40 or 50, but 60 is overkill and also grants a huge flank for your opponents to hit.

1 Warp-lightning Warp Cannon @ 90.0 Pts
3 Warp Crew @ [0.0] Pts

get another one.

3 Rat Ogres @ 128.0 Pts
Frenzy
1 Rat Ogre Packmasters @ [8.0] Pts
Whip; Light Armour

drop

5 Giant Rats @ 15.0 Pts
1 Packmasters @ [8.0] Pts
Whip; Light Armour

get 2 more

Models in Army: 176|200, could definitely use more


Total Army Cost: 2000.0

It is important to underline that I am using almost every Skaven miniature I own (I have ordered more clanrats/skavenslaves, HPA and gutter runners, but I still haven't those pieces). What do you think about the list in general? It has lots and lots and lots of room for improvement
Thank you in advance for any suggestion/comment.
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Natwest
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Clanrat
Mathusala0
8th January 2012 - 01:48 AM

3 Rat Ogres @ 128.0 Pts
Frenzy
1 Rat Ogre Packmasters @ [8.0] Pts
Whip; Light Armour

drop
I agree with Mathusala, Rogres are not much good for anything apart from counter charging and character bus for warlord on bone breaker

Take some gutter runners instead, to take out war machines

*bsb* ^Warpfire^ :KA-BOOM:
Warpstone is green,
My Fellblade is blue,
Watch out for my Hellpit,
it's comin to eat you!
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lockwood
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Chieftain
i under stand wanting a second wiz but you have a grey seer which will most likely roll all plague

spells so you may want to take your warlock and make him a level one (one is best) or level 2 your call it all about

fun t

he p priest just seem like to much plague spells but it you call
toys go boom kill all man-thing, got to find more man-thing so toys can go boom again '

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Alleras
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Thank you for your kind replies. Sorry, Mathusala0, I didn't want to make you cry, but it is only my second Skaven list. :bow:

Now, while I understand your points, I have just one more question about my list: when you say "2 more", you mean 2 more unit of giant rats or 2 more models? Just to clarify...

Three more questions, while I read your guide for a competitive list building, I still have some doubts:
1) Is there any way to play Rat Ogres in a competitive way? While I understand that they are not an optimal choice, what is the best way to field them?
2) Is there any use for Doom-Flayer? in your experience, can it be used or it is totally worthless if associated to a unit of clanrats?
3) I would like to try (in the future) a highly shooting list. While I have ordered another Warp-lightning Cannon, your comments about the Plagueclaw Catapult aren't very clear. Is it usable?

Thank you (again) in advance!
Edited by Alleras, 9th January 2012 - 11:03 AM.
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Mathusala0
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The Evil Underlord

Now, while I understand your points, I have just one more question about my list: when you say "2 more", you mean 2 more unit of giant rats or 2 more models? Just to clarify...

2 more units, specifically 2 more "Rat darts"

Three more questions, while I read your guide for a competitive list building, I still have some doubts:
1) Is there any way to play Rat Ogres in a competitive way? While I understand that they are not an optimal choice, what is the best way to field them?
Take sqweel gnawtooth, but it becomes "Unreliable" competitive at best.
2) Is there any use for Doom-Flayer? in your experience, can it be used or it is totally worthless if associated to a unit of clanrats?
The one wound on it really hurts, its much better to buy equal points worth of stormvermin, who will have more attacks anyway.
3) I would like to try (in the future) a highly shooting list. While I have ordered another Warp-lightning Cannon, your comments about the Plagueclaw Catapult aren't very clear. Is it usable?
While usable, It pales in comparison to our other rares, and it falls short next to our cannon. its to inaccurate, its only strength 2, it sees some good use against specific races but its not meant for an "All comers" list.
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Thawzz13
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Sleepai dooggy :)
the plauge claw catapault is only usefull when combined with wither :(

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Mathusala0
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The Evil Underlord

not true at all, the catapult has many good uses that do not include the use of wither, however in an all comers list it does require that you have wither, and personally, I hate relying on magic to make other things work, if magic does some damage for me, cool, but I dislike the idea of relying on almost 4 dice rolls in order to get a buff on my units or a debuff on my opponents.
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