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ETC 2400 pts - Competitive
Topic Started: 30th December 2011 - 01:57 PM (483 Views)
Kostasrag


Lords 500pts
seer + bell + skalm + earthing rode + dragon gem 500pts

heroes 404ptspts
warlock rocket 45pts
warlock + scroll lvl2 125pts
BSB+ SD of desepline 85pts
Plague monk +talisma of preservation +flail 149pts
680pts
3x30 slaves + M 186pts
40 stormvermin +M + StormBanner+Champ 355pts+ warpfire 70pts
3x6 rats 69pts


special 366pts
3x5 globs 150pts
2x6 gutters +slings + poison 216pts

rare 440pts
abom + spikes
cannon
catapult

2390
Edited by Kostasrag, 30th December 2011 - 02:40 PM.
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SkavenDan
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I thought it was 2 swarms min and they are not a competitive choice.
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Kostasrag


for a 25pts immune to psychology 5 wound diverter and deployment staller is very good IMO but you are right they 2 base minimum so i turn them in 5 globadiers
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Mathusala0
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The Evil Underlord

to many points invested into characters, not enough models.

you dont need a level 2 warlock, just level 1 is fine.

your almost a full 100 models short of how many you should have. your slave units should all be capped out at 40, you need more banners for the blood and glory scenario. you need something other than storm-vermin to push your bell,

rat darts are 2 points cheaper than swarms anyway.

globes are not that effective and your dropping a hell of a lot of points into them, maybe 2 units, but not 3, all these little units are looking to be free points for your opponent.

rares are fine, but really, get more models, don't invest almost 50% of your points in characters.
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Kostasrag


bell with 400pts unit pushing it + plague monk + BSB make my self a small death star this gives great point denial

in ETC there are no scenarios and models are 40 maximum i havent had the need to put more slaves this is because enemy;s big units will be reduced my rocket-plague-cannon0catapult and allow me to tarpit them which is the perpuse of the slaves afc

basically the pts that my opponent can take is the rats + globadiers 210pts + machines ( difficult) + hellpit ( difficult if not flaming attacks etc )

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Tanglewood
Warlord
I get that you're trying to play a point denial list but the globadiers bleed points too easily since they have no rank and only need to lose 2 before testing. Bell is also an easy point sink vs empire, dwarves and ogres (cannons). ETC Empire tends to castle up with gunline and stank/waltar/flagg pit.
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Borgomos
Warlord
I get the points denial idea, but it won't work. Points denial, by nature, works on the assumption that the unit is hard to kill and/or earn points out of, none of which applies in your situation.

Any decent, wide combat unit who touches the bell unit will first get rid of your BSB and your Grey Seer. With the Bell's frontage, the Seer won't survive even rank and file attacks. The Stormvermin are not resilient, and Skaven have no access to magic that can toughen them up. Even the Plague Priest can be killed by a decently geared combat character, and ETC promotes tooling characters a lot.

After charactes are done for, all the enemy unit has to do is to grind the Bell unit over several turns of combat and claim the points.

I would also not bank on the Abomination being "hard to kill". Any half-decent ETC player will field a flaming banner to deal with Drakenhof/Hydra/Trolls/Aboms. The Abom can also be dealth with, to a degree, with Great weapon troops.
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Mathusala0
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The Evil Underlord

yeah, while the bell may hold its points, the SV unit will not, and the second the grey sear dies (even if your opponent does not get points for him) the rest of your army breaks and runs.
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Kostasrag


It might sound strange to you but this type of lists work ..
EVEN agaist gunlines why ? hide the bell behind an impassible terrain or hill with slaves on top that block line of sight from cannon then with gutter and 11-12 the gunlune will have problems and the cannons will shoot at HPA or other target
the HPA is very hard to kill unless fire attack/lore but still it has 6 wounds will crush any infantry unit without difficulty
in any case i prefere to charge the abomination along with bell to break units in one round of CC


i prefere constractive comments and not counter arguments for everything as this is logical everything has a weak spot ( telling about flaming attacks on HPA wont make me take out or something - or that the PREFERED or RECOMMENDED is 1 model per 10 pts )
alsoi think the bell provides GREAT point delian with full command the bsb is going to second rank and plague priest on first

and what i mean with great point denial is
bell 500pts
bsb 80
unit 400
plague priest 140

\in one unbreable unit . These points will only go pouf when the bell is down from cannons or the enemy kills 40 stromvermin
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Thawzz13
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surely a couple of purple suns or affects every model in the unit spells will destroy most of your stormvermin in 6 turns someone could probably destroy 40 vermin

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Mathusala0
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The Evil Underlord

right... but at the same time that unit is wasting over 1000 points in not killing things, the grey sear may be fine so theres 2500odd points of killyness, but you've got 750 other points sitting in a unit that does not really want to see combat, sure i may hold its points, siure it may even survive gunlines, but thats 750 points not fighting the enemy. and if you go into combat only 5 wide so as to bumb characters back, the grey sear still gets it in the face. which again, causes the rest of your army to break and flee. a 1000 points denial unit is rather pointless when 1400 of your points is about to vanish from panic and break tests.

I would never say "Don't take a hell-pit" hell pits are stupidly broken. but I do not thiunk you want your SV mixed with the bell, it balls up a combat, and non combat unit into the same ball, you do not want that.

And pointing out flaws and weaknesses is very much so constructive criticism. I think with so few models, even in ETC, you'll see a lot of them break and run after some small combats (yes i know they have the 450 point cap on most units, but those sizes can still chew us up fast)

im not denying that a points denial list works, I run a point denial list. but i also don't run vermin with my bell.
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lockwood
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you could take the 10 pts left over and add +5 slaves to one unit for one more rank
toys go boom kill all man-thing, got to find more man-thing so toys can go boom again '

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Tanglewood
Warlord
I am willing to give the benefit of a doubt that a deathstar of 40 SV and Monks can hold onto their points as you have quite a few drops and can dictate match up.

I can live also with the benefit of a doubt that you can kit your seer and he might live in CC (as discussed in the strat page).

However, small units like the PCB, GR and giant rats totally contradict your point denial strat as they are very easily killed by magic missile. 1/2 str units = vp I think in ETC as well as panic checks.

Also although you have a storm banner, it only take 2 cannon round of shooting with storm banner on to kill the grey seer. A clever opponent will never leave his cannons unsupported and you won't be able to charge him turn 1 if you win roll off. If you don't win roll-off, he'll charge your GR first with ranked units or you can start afar but they'll be shooting under storm banner + move.

This list is similar to at least one other ETC list I've seen. It works for them but, in ETC, you get pairing meaning you can choose your opponent so he won't get put against cannons or cannons he can't handle (he also had brass orb). In normal games, you dont get a pick. You play everyone and you might end up vs flaming cannons, etc.

Quote:
 
EVEN agaist gunlines why ? hide the bell behind an impassible terrain or hill with slaves on top that block line of sight from cannon


and if you don't have a handy hill in the middle of the table, will you deploy your whole army in a corner? Even if his guns are at the opposite end of the table? Do you have to place scenarios?You're introducing weakness to your list and counting on a big piece of luck here imo.

My recommendation is, no bell but once you drop the bell, you completely change the strategy. Or a lot more gutter runners (which is always a good thing).

Or better still, screw everyone's opinion here, play with the list and tweak it. You might find things we say are true, or you might find that it's wrong. Only real games will give you that.
Edited by Tanglewood, 3rd January 2012 - 04:34 AM.
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