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1500 Shooty List
Topic Started: 19th December 2011 - 06:22 AM (256 Views)
Ataboy
Clanrat
I really like the idea of widdling away at the other team before they can even begin
to stab me. I would like to have a list with cannons and stuff and sit back and rain
havoc and be protected behind tarpits. I am taking the Warlord as my general and
I geared him a bit killy and durable, I was gonna stick him in the unit of SV as a feesible
hammer unit, let me know if it's a bad idea to have the general in combat. I am a few %
over the RARE cap but noone in my store cares, and I want a variety. I've taken a grey
seer at this point level, and I don't know if I was playing poorly, but he caused very few
casualties or aid, so I'm not sure if only a lvl 1 WE is sufficient, but I would prefer a way
to upgrade him somehow.

LORDS: 170

Warlord: 170 (General in SV unit)
-War-Litter
-Talisman of Preservation

HEROES: 157

Chieftain: 72 (BSB to be hidden in bunker behind my lines)
-Shield
-BSB

Warlock Engineer: 85
-lvl 1
-Warp Condenser

CORE: 749

20xClanrats: 80 (Bunker, is 20 naked good enough??)

30xClanrats: 212
-Shield
-Musician
-Standard
-PWM

30xStormvermin: 335
-Musician
-Standard
-Razor Standard
-PWM

48xSlaves: 122
-Shield
-Musician

RARE: 425 (about 28% like I said before)

WLC: 90

Hellpit: 235

Plagueclaw Katapult: 100

I appreciate your time and responses, I am a noob and don't have many models yet FYI


Thanks, Ataboy the lowest of slave :bow:
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Gazz't Rootgnasher
Clanrat
First off, if you want to go shooty, go shooty. I know Hellpit Aboms are a staple in most armies, but you'll get more utility and shooting out of 2 or even 3 Warp Lightning Cannons. Don't run with them if you're trying to run a shooting list. Even a Doomwheel would technically count on the shooting side and is cheaper than an Abom. And the Plaqueclaw Catapult is not very good if you aren't supporting it with spells from a Plague Priest or Grey Seer, as it hits for a very weak value, which is boosted by Wither.

If you could tell us what happened that caused the main issue with the Grey Seer, that would help in assessing whether or not it's a good thing for the army list or not.

Now then, if you want a really shooty list, pick up the really shooty stuff. It's just not a shooty list without a Doomrocket, one of the most ridiculous things we get access to, hands down. Mortar teams are good, but your slaves are a bit lacking. You have the unit size down well, but one unit of slaves, no matter the size, won't tarpit for nearly as long as you'd be wanting it to.

The Skaven Shooty Army of Death has changed a lot in the recent edition, but it's still relatively possible to do it. Just look more at the other options in your army. If you're trying to shoot the enemy to pieces, your hammers don't need to be pumped up in quite the same way as one belonging to another army, you would instead rely on your ranged units.

That being said, Gutter Runners with Poison and Slings are still a great option. You like the idea of shooting and whittling down the enemy, try doing it from more than halfway into the enemy deployment zone while they can do very little to respond to it thanks to Scouting.

As a last note, this has to be said, nothing will aid in whittling down enemies from a distance quite as much as a Grey Seer. So please, if you can list what your difficulty was when fielding one, we can provide a way to help in figuring out the best way to use one.


If you need any more ideas, check out the guide on using a castle list. It may not run in the same general points value, but it runs on the same idea of tarpitting and forcing your opponent to chew through bodies on the table while you hammer them at range.
Edited by Gazz't Rootgnasher, 19th December 2011 - 09:00 AM.
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Mathusala0
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The Evil Underlord

Quote:
 
I've taken a grey seer at this point level, and I don't know if I was playing poorly, but he caused very few casualties or aid,


or just bad luck, it happens.

Quote:
 
If you need any more ideas, check out the guide on using a castle list. It may not run in the same general points value, but it runs on the same idea of tarpitting and forcing your opponent to chew through bodies on the table while you hammer them at range.


Actually the castle list is supposed to be based off of points denial. it can be close combat or shooty, depends on the players (i find mine actually leans more towards close combat with a huge barrage of template shooting on turn 2)

skaven shooty army of death should include:

2 cannons
gutter runners with poison slings, it is vital you remove your opponents war machines.
a general (preferably grey sear) and bsb
fill out core with as many slaves as possible.
id go for 2 doomwheels over other rares.
then either as many weapon teams as can be fielded or some other shooting units (Globes or Jezzails, but not to many thy stack up fast in points)
arguably a bell is a big help.

a doomrocket is a big help as said, And I agree with the no hammer solution, its part of the risk of running this style of list. hence why most players settle on a "balanced" approach (aka the standard skaven list)

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Ataboy
Clanrat
Thanks a lot guys. With the grey seer, I think the fact that I was playing WoC might have
had an impact, I got wither on 2 units of warriors and then in CC forgot that they had the effects :KA-BOOM:
I got dreaded 13th off twice but was dispelled and scrolled both times. I think I was also rolling low
for my power dice, I was getting like 4 or 5 dice.
- I already have the HPA, and I really like the fluff, and how awesome it looks, but that does take away from my rares. :wacko:
-In the only game i played, I took 9 Gutter runners, I'm not sure whybut literally 1 person takes war machines,
and my store is like 60% WoC where even with poison, I was unable to get there points back.
- I could easily drop the the warlord and engineer and run a grey seer, pretty much everything,
that I'e read on this forum says it is a necessity. I would be glad to give it another shot.
-I think youre suggesting to drop the unit of SV also? I could do that and replace it with a ton of slaves,
or jezzails or goodies.
-A veteran rat player at my store really does well with the katapult and I think it has potential as an
other large template.

If I really shouldn't take some of these things or if I should stick to the standard list, I don't think shooting
would be as much fun if I got tabled every match.

So this is the second attempt at the list

LORDS: 285

Grey Seer: 285 (General in bunker)
-Talisman of Preservation

HEROES: 117

Chieftain: 72 (BSB to be hidden in bunker behind my lines)
-Shield
-BSB

Warlock Engineer: 45
-Doomrocket

CORE: 586

20xClanrats: 145 (Bunker, is 20 naked good enough??)
-PWM

30xClanrats: 212
-Shield
-Musician
-Standard
-PWM

45xSlaves: 114.5
-Shield
-Musician

45xSlaves: 114.5
-Shield
-Musician

RARE: 425 (about 28% like I said before)

WLC: 90

Hellpit: 235

Plagueclaw Katapult: 100

This leaves me at 1413, 148 models. I could add in about 5 jezzails, lots of globes, or magic gear,
or whatever you have to suggest. Thanks a ton guys. I'm open to even starting this whole list over
if that's what you guys suggest

Ataboy
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Hong
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Anime Seer
Gazz't Rootgnasher
19th December 2011 - 08:20 AM
but you'll get more utility and shooting out of 2 or even 3 Warp Lightning Cannons.
you can't have 3 WLC unless in 3K army.......

========
I will drop HPA for another WLC and PCC
than the army will look super super shooty :P

20 clanrat isn't enough, as even 1 rat dead your LD will drop to 9, I suggest 25
And You don't have enough models and blocks
Drop the shield from slave as your shooting (which all ignore Armor save) will kill a lot of slave
try 3 unit of 50

Grey Seer with Talisman of Preservation......since he is your general
He will be hidden in bunker all the time and enjoy LOS
4+ ward save......Personally I will give him some Arcane item instead
or Obsidian Lodestone, give 4+ ward save against spell to whole unit,
so you can let small magic missile that target bunker go, save the dices and dispel more deadly spell like Infernal Gateway

PWG is good against Woc, because PWG ignore Armor save and Toughness
and Woc don't have much thing good at handle Skirmishers
Just throw them to Chaos kinght and kill the mighty mighty-thing on 4+ :P
(◕‿‿◕): Just make a contract with me and become a Skaven Slave Magical Girl!
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Mathusala0
Member Avatar
The Evil Underlord

Quote:
 
20 clanrat isn't enough, as even 1 rat dead your LD will drop to 9, I suggest 25


actually it takes a minimum of 3 dead models to reduce the leadership, the grey sear and bsb should both be in the bunker. :P

Quote:
 
Grey Seer with Talisman of Preservation......since he is your general
He will be hidden in bunker all the time and enjoy LOS
4+ ward save......Personally I will give him some Arcane item instead


what happens if he miscasts? what happens if an enemy flyer somehow gets into the bunker? what happens when the bunker is forced into close combat in some way shape or form, what if by necessity you move the grey sear out on his own (perhaps with skitterleap).

basically, there are infinite reasons to take a 4+ ward save. not just because you don't have LOS.
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Ataboy
Clanrat
Thanks,

Shields on the slaves also gives 6+ parry, and a 6+ armor if its not my shooting killing them.
It does save points though if really necessary.

Hellpit is one of the very few models that I already own, and I dropped $50 on him, and he is
still feasible, If completely required I suppose I could drop him, but he has so much potential
and I really want to build and paint the coolest skaven model.

To get to 1500, I could add 6 PWG and a Bombadier with death globe, which would be fun.
I like the fluff and ignoring of armour, and only $10 for 3 as opposed to $50 for jezzails, effin ridiculous

So are you guys okay with the taking of PCC? and the PWGs?

My shooting would consist of 2 PWM, WLC, PCC, PWG, deathglobe, doomrocket, and grey seer magic


I think I would deploy like the castle formation, tons of slaves in front, cannons shooting over slaves,
HPA on one flank, PWG and clanrats on other flank.

S:slaves
C:clanrats

SSSSSSSSSS SSSSSSSSSS
PWG C BUNKER WLC PCC HPA

I really appreciate youre help, Ataboy
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Hong
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Anime Seer
Mathusala0
19th December 2011 - 06:47 PM
Quote:
 
20 clanrat isn't enough, as even 1 rat dead your LD will drop to 9, I suggest 25


actually it takes a minimum of 3 dead models to reduce the leadership, the grey sear and bsb should both be in the bunker. :P

Quote:
 
Grey Seer with Talisman of Preservation......since he is your general
He will be hidden in bunker all the time and enjoy LOS
4+ ward save......Personally I will give him some Arcane item instead


what happens if he miscasts? what happens if an enemy flyer somehow gets into the bunker? what happens when the bunker is forced into close combat in some way shape or form, what if by necessity you move the grey sear out on his own (perhaps with skitterleap).

basically, there are infinite reasons to take a 4+ ward save. not just because you don't have LOS.
ummmm.....you are right
Edited by Hong, 19th December 2011 - 07:50 PM.
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Fenris
Chieftain
If youre -looking for a shooting army I would go buy some dwarfs or Empire, Just saying. They Do it better than us. I know I run Empire. They are my labor of love. And they punish in the shooting phase. But back to the topic at hand. About the shields on the slaves. Look man I know it seems like the 6+ will save the day for you but look at it honestly If you run fifty with shields and musician thats 127 points. And on average you'll save about one in six. Okay thats cool I guess, but instead you could take that 25 points and get twelve more slaves. So say some nurgle warriors of chaos hit you in the CotE forum approved 18 man six man front formation with halberds and they rock the banner that gives them frenzy and they have festus the leach lord who gives them poison attacks. (this is my unit i'm talking about. I run them all kinds of punch you in the face.) your looking at twenty two strength five poison attacks that hit you on threes. About seven will miss, about 4 will poison, and then you have 11 wounds still to roll only needing twos. thats about two that fail to wound Thats about 13 wounds on the unit. Youv'e already lost combat at this point before that measly 6+ save comes to your aid. Which it will about twice if your lucky. In the end it saved you 2 rats. 25 points and all you got for your trouble was two rats. they only cost two points apiece. Hate to keep beating this dead horse, but 25 points made you back 4 points. No that is no deal. take instead the 12 rats extra so hehas to kill more of them. thats their function anyway, being to many to kill all of. Because next turn you hit those nurgly punks in the flank and show em some pain with the abomb.

Here is also a reason to take the gray seer no one else told you. He brings much needed magic defense. That is the best thing he does for you. and trust me. WoC do two things well. Combat and magic. And if he takes death, he'll try to kill your bsb or your warlord as a priority or shadow to make your units suck more. Or infernal gateway that will own some slaves.

Now as I said before, if you want a shooting army go look somewhere else. This army no longer has the ability to effectivly perform with shooting at its core. This army is about each unit excelling at a specific task to compliment the failings of other units. We use the grey seer in a bunker with to hold the slaves together, and the slaves hold the enemy down by dieing in droves. Then the hammer units hit them in the flanks to win the combat. Clannies go where we need a little bit more relyabile troops. The gutter runners get to the things we cant reach and kill them for us, pwm softens up the enemy, WLC and DW we use to kill the monsters our infantry can't handle. We overwhelm and counter.

Also it looks like you have the Sklaves in horde formation in your diagram there. This is wrong we need them to have the ranks to hold theenemy with steadfast and high leadership. we don't need more attacks just more behind us. If it wasn't the case. I apologize.
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It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace--but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death! March 23, 1775- Patrick Henry
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Ataboy
Clanrat
Alright, thanks for the lengthy response.

I tested this list against a really good WoC player today, and i killed literally 5
warriors. i also had 8 misfires, hellpit got flanked by chosen, doomrocket hit me and death globe missed

So i don't even think the amount of shooting I had will work, so it's back to the drawing boards.

A bit off topic, do you think I should take plague furnace or a bell in 1500?
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Fenris
Chieftain
well now we are talking about a whole new army. I require specificty. What role do you want it in? I personaly love the furnace as it make an excellent hammer unit. I'm not crazy about the bell. It is a little to expensive for a unit won't allow in combat. But the bonuses it adds are deamed worth it by some. Just not me.
Quote:
 
It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace--but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death! March 23, 1775- Patrick Henry
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Ataboy
Clanrat
Alright, screw this shooty army crap, thats for the man things, I'll write up a 1500 point
version of the Mathusala "Standard Skaven List"


LORDS: (90)

Warlord: (90) (General)

HEROES: (361)

Plague Priest: (289) (lvl 2 Mage)
-Flail
-lvl 2
-Furnace

Chieftain: (72) (BSB)
-Shield
-BSB

CORE: (361)

23xClanrats: (157) (Bunker)
-PWM

2 Units of:
50xSlaves: (102)
-Musician

SPECIAL: (363)

30xPlague Monks: (255)
-Musician
-Standard
-Plague Banner

6xGutter Runners: (108)
-Slings
-Poison

RARE: (325)

Hellpit: )235)

Warp Lightning Cannon: (90)


It was difficult to find points to transfer the standard list into 1500.

Questions:
-It has 166 models, but I still don't know if 1500 is big enough
to fit the Plague Furnace?

-Is the naked Warlord general alright? I figured, if they make it to my bunker, I've already lost.

-If this doesn't work out, I'd would really love it for someone to possibly write me a list,
this is like my 5th attempt at a 1500 list :KA-BOOM:

-Thanks for the time, and sorry for kind of changing the topic I guess.
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Fenris
Chieftain
Well now thats more like it. I will say this for you, you take things to heart. Keep the characters cheap, I like it. Though, lack of protection will hurt I can tell you.1500 points leaves alot of room for some death magic. So just be wary. Also I might lose the lvl2 on the PP. He's is too expensive otherwise, when he will most likely die and he is your most expensive character. But all in all a fine list. Just hope the enemy wants to kill the abomb and furnace more than the command team. But I should mention that if anything happens to them then you will lose the game. slave can only stay alive with the leadership boost form the general and the reroll from the bsb.
Quote:
 
It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace--but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death! March 23, 1775- Patrick Henry
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Hong
Member Avatar
Anime Seer
Ataboy
21st December 2011 - 05:14 AM
i also had 8 misfires, hellpit got flanked by chosen, doomrocket hit me and death globe missed
.......
Pray to our Great horned rat for better luck next time

Quote:
 
Questions:
-It has 166 models, but I still don't know if 1500 is big enough
to fit the Plague Furnace?
Usually I do not count Bunker and any units that don't have SiN
But I think 130 models is big enough because you also have PF and HPA

Quote:
 
-Is the naked Warlord general alright? I figured, if they make it to my bunker, I've already lost.
Personally thinking.....better than using PP as general
You can drop 2 slaves and give your warlord a shield

Other thing seems good
(◕‿‿◕): Just make a contract with me and become a Skaven Slave Magical Girl!
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