| Two wins in two days vs. High Elves; Seemingly good 1000 pt army list | ||
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| Tweet Topic Started: 19th December 2011 - 03:45 AM (367 Views) | ||
| Ratatak Gristlegouger | 19th December 2011 - 03:45 AM Post #1 | |
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Stormvermin
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Hey all, long time 40k player, and now I've been into Fantasy for about a year (which imo is a better game all around.) Skaven rock! Here is my list, and with it I won twice in a row with an unchanging High Elf list: Ratatak Gristlegouger (warlord) riding Splatterclaw his bonebreaker (great weapon; heavy armor; shield;pistol; Obsidion lodestone - magic res. 3) level 1 warlock engineer (dispel scroll; pistol) wielding warp lightening first game, scorch in the 2nd game Both of the above were attached to: 31 clanrats with shield and spear, musician and standard bearer attached globe mortar 1st game, warpfire thrower 2nd game 41 skavenslaves with musician (spears) 40 skavenslaves with musician (spears) 5 gutterrunners with poison slings "Skreech Lightening" Doomwheel 998.5 points This group did well. In both games the slaves tarpitted units while the main clanrat unit with my warlock and warlord shot magic, warpfire, and kept everyone from breaking. The first game the doomwheel didn't do much. 2nd game it ripped elves apart...this machine seems AWESOME! He didn't have much he could do to stop it! The gutterrunners didn't do too much, but enough to make him not ignore them, and worry about his rear and flanks. And my warlord on bonebreaker? YOWEE! He was the strongest presence on the table. No elf could kill him. What do you guys think of this list? I might leave the gutter runners home, and spend the 90 points on another unit of slaves, clanrats, or another/strong mage. The gutter runners are cool to harass, but I think another full unit of slaves or another engineer mage would be better imo atleast against elves. Edited by Ratatak Gristlegouger, 19th December 2011 - 03:48 AM.
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| "Doooom rockets in flight.... Afternoon delight!" | ||
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| Mathusala0 | 19th December 2011 - 04:12 AM Post #2 | |
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The Evil Underlord
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it seems to me the high elf sucked. not to mention, no bsb, if the highelf focused your warlord your units would have broken and lost. in addition your warlord has a shield he cant use, a pistol he can use maybe once a game (if his unit doesnt want to charge) and will get one shot by the first empire list you play, or the first list with death magic. Basically. yeah you won 2 games, but this list is far from perfect. Edited by Mathusala0, 19th December 2011 - 04:17 AM.
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| koffietje | 19th December 2011 - 01:31 PM Post #3 | |
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Warlord
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What did the high elf do???? His magic is better, he probably has about 30 bow shooting models and should have no problem taking out your warlord on bonebreaker. The only real danger would be the doomwheel. I think you used the spears in your charging fase. (which is not allowed). I also think, he forgot to bring a mage. |
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against.................. won ............ lost Skaven...................1...................0 High Elfs.................1....................1 dark elfs.................0....................0 chaos warriors.......0....................0 demons..................0....................0 dwarves.................2....................1 bretonian................0....................0 empire....................0....................0 lizards.....................0...................0 tomb king................0...................0 vampires.................1...................0 beast men...............1...................0 wood elfs................0....................0 | ||
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| Fenris | 19th December 2011 - 02:14 PM Post #4 | |
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Chieftain
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Why would you take scorch over warplightning?! Warplightning is made made for the warlock engineer. He must have let you tool him over. | |
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| SkavenDan | 19th December 2011 - 03:00 PM Post #5 | |
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Doomwheel Fanatic
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Scorch hits 21 models. |
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| Hong | 19th December 2011 - 05:08 PM Post #6 | |
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Anime Seer
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Your warlord have T4 W4 AS 4+ (No shield in CC) and nothing more Since he is riding on bonebreaker, elf can have minimun 6 model can target your warlord And Sword master 10 S5 hit can cuese average 3 wound per tern You have nothing really hurt in Close combat escept warlord (DW not that powerful in CC) And your warlord can be easily killed HE spearman way~~~~~~better than our spear man Also do not have much magic and shooting, non magic defend (level 1 wizard with dispel scroll still not enough to stop HE magic, and HE can dispel everything you cast....in theory) I would like to know the HE list....... ========== Well...... I suggest that Give your general a ward save, Armour of foryune is fine, armore of destiny even better Drop the pistol and shield, but if you can afford a magic weapon than you can keep shield You can change bonebreaker to warlitter so you can enjoy Lookout sir, but with 2+ ward save again spell, bonebreaker is just fine BSB is a must Since you prefer Warlord to GS, nothing you can do better in magic phase...... Just don't put you WE next to Warlord, than throw all your Power dice to cast a spell Miscast? Oh graet! HE can dispel nothing this turn Clanrat can take spears if you like (I don't since I love parry save), but no spears in slave They don't do anything with spears Shield or naked Weapon team......PWM is fine, but WFT just get shoot and die Against HE in 1K, you can use your DW to hunt lone model or warmachines, so you don't have to keep gutterrunners, it is up to you |
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| tezzmaniak | 19th December 2011 - 05:30 PM Post #7 | |
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THE Abomination
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Hi, i like the idea of the doomwheel in 1K instead of the standard WLC Theoretically i would not place me Warlord in a Bonebreaker (targetting issue thingie that everybody mentioned). A Litter at most (you have Look out sir on that) Spears on the slaves seem a waste but then again in 1K you have more light troops than in bigger games. Still not worth it i guess. Maybe take 3 jezzails for the high power hits, since you don't have a WLC... just an idea. I would keep the gutterrunners. Then again, i'm not that experienced on Skaven (just on warhammer in general, :-) starting up skaven right now) |
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Diary: Vampire Hunters Bloodbowl : My bloodbowl team Achivements: Vampire Hunters Achivements P.R.S. complete = 51 2012 golden rat entry= HERE "Some factual information for you. Have you any idea how much damage that bulldozer would suffer if I just let it roll straight over you?" "How much?" said Arthur. "None at all," said Mr. Prosser. 9th Creator of the UnderEmpire Achievements ![]() | ||
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| Ratatak Gristlegouger | 20th December 2011 - 05:37 AM Post #8 | |
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Stormvermin
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Thanks to all with constructive criticism. Its lame when you come onto a site like this to learn/share ideas and if you have a bad one people just smack you down. We're all Skaven, we're on the same side...(sort of.) First off, I never stated this was a perfect list. All I said was that it was seemingly good. The point of Warhammer is to play a battle, learn from your mistakes, and get better. So if an inexperienced player comes to the boards with a bad tactics, constructive criticism is appreciated and helpful, not sarcastic, unhelpful comments. So again, thanks to you who actually said, "i would do this.." or "I wouldn't do that....try this..." But to just state, "why would you have done that? Your opponent must suck" is useless criticism and makes forum like this less helpful. I love this forum because of all the other Warhammer forums, people here seem the most helpful and friendly, but there are still those typical forum members that think they are the gods of the game and anyone who makes a wrong choice is an idiot. So going forward, it'd be nice if only people with ideas and constructive comments that can be typed in readable grammar replied. Second, we played incorrectly, I didn't know the Warlord on Bonebreaker loses look out sir, plus we're both newish players and didn't realize you could pick him out. On the first game, my Engineer zapped his mage with his 5 phoenix guard and they failed their leadership when it took too many wounds and ran! When they tried to rally they failed and ran off the board! It was The Great Horned One helping me out, for sure! We're still getting the rules down, I'm sure we made more mistakes, but on those two games I won. Must have been because I was still using "Look out sir" with my bonebreaker...that, and he didn't have anything to really harm my doomwheel. Neither of us brought BSB's, I will next time. And I now see the reason to bring a shield instead of spears...that parry ward would be better than a few more kills, but at this level his units were so small I figured each kill would really hurt him. The reason why he didn't own the magic phase was due to a)bad rolling, b)i had a dispel scroll (not sure if he did) and c)in the first game he got some remains in play fire spell that kept burning my slaves, but didn't get it in the 2nd game. But they were big enough to take the heat! His list was this: lvl 2 wizard with silver wand with 5 phoenix guard 8 or 10 white lions 20 seaguard 5 light cavalry maybe some other wargear, but thats about it. Edited by Ratatak Gristlegouger, 20th December 2011 - 05:42 AM.
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| "Doooom rockets in flight.... Afternoon delight!" | ||
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| Mathusala0 | 20th December 2011 - 06:47 AM Post #9 | |
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The Evil Underlord
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Because It hasn't happened to every single player before you. Your not special, you will learn to hate me like the others.
But you implied it was a perfect list "Oh look I beat high elves twice in a row" is not instituting that you wish to learn from mistakes. your implying you in fact, made no mistakes. You also display a list, not bad Tactics, and believe it or not I DID in fact give you critique on your list. just because I put it bluntly does not change the fact that it's constructive.
*cough* You went to three separate army lists and posted that they should take a warlord on a bonebreaker, not bothering to see if it was synergistic, not bothering to actually read the lists and critique them. Unfortunately for you I saw that before your list so my responses were designed to be only slightly nicer than a "please don't spam things" of course nice, in this case, included lots of sarcasm. and if both you and your opponent are new, this explains much. when you post an arrogant tittle such as the one you have here. I expect a high quality list. you'll see I give better responses to players who are new and "humble" as opposed to those who are new and "flaunting". I praise innovation. but this is just "Hey look I won" not "Hey look at this cool idea I thought of, what do you guys think?"
Don't post a boasting tittle. I won't hit you with sarcasm. deal?
not much that changes against higheleves. but in an allcomers list you'll notice a distinct lack of bonebreakers for this reason, hence my sarcasm in the other posts. to be fair, the first time was actually not sarcasm, it was trying to get you to back up your blunt and (to me) random comment on those lists with tactics. the second time however, was sarcasm. the target thing is kinda a big deal though.
actually this is his fault for taking a small unit with no good general. not so much divine blessing. (though the failing to rally is pretty harsh. how many did you kill?
look out sir is irrelevant as he has no cannons or template weapons (other than spells). that said. the 8-10 white lions are not going to take out a doomwheel, you are correct. Neither of us brought BSB's, I will next time. And I now see the reason to bring a shield instead of spears...that parry ward would be better than a few more kills, but at this level his units were so small I figured each kill would really hurt him. He may not need a BSB, but skaven should almost ALWAYS have a BSB, to quote Firby "The BSB should be the second thing a skaven player writes down. Right after "General" Spears are generally accepted to be a waste of points. they simply do not inflict enough additional wound to make those points worth it. now if your only going to be playing this highelf. you may actually consider keeping them as the battle against high elves is one of attrition (more so than the other races)
Flames of the phoenix, every model in the unit takes a strength 4 (i think) +Y (where Y is the number of turns in play past the first.) har har bad puns.
Remember when I said he sucked? I stand by this statement, I have said it before to other players, sometimes your opponents just don't know how to play, maybe they are new, maybe its a new race, who knows. so if you want it less bluntly, he is a new player. now, as a courtesy for your at least realizing why the bonebreaker is getting the sarcasm. Hey all, long time 40k player, and now I've been into Fantasy for about a year (which imo is a better game all around. It is) Skaven rock! they do Here is my list, and with it I won twice in a row with an unchanging High Elf list: Tell the high elf to take death magic next game. tell him to take the sig spell, and have him cast it on your doomwheel and warlord. We should see an almost instant difference in play. (the warlord will be a bit harder to chew through but the doomwheels gonna get crunched.) Ratatak Gristlegouger (warlord) riding Splatterclaw his bonebreaker (great weapon; heavy armor; shield;pistol; Obsidion lodestone - magic res. 3) again, drop the shield, the warlord can not be hit by ranged attacks that are not template based. The pistols short range makes it a sub optimal upgrade for him. consider getting him a 4+ ward save in absence of a LOS. level 1 warlock engineer (dispel scroll; pistol) wielding warp lightening first game, scorch in the 2nd game Scorch is in fact a far superior spell to warp lightning, more hits on average, no chance to hurt yourself, doesn't scatter, auto panic test, and flaming (useful against certain things). However, should the engineer get a condenser (which he should), warp-lightning becomes a far superior spell. Both of the above were attached to: 31 clanrats with shield and spear, musician and standard bearer attached globe mortar 1st game, warpfire thrower 2nd game wind mortars are generally accepted as the best weapon team, move and fire, good range, ignore armor, always wound on 5+, so on and so on. 41 skavenslaves with musician (spears) Again, spears have been discussed above. since you don't have shields to take advantage of its not actually that big of a deal, but normally you want shields. 40 skavenslaves with musician (spears) as above. 5 gutterrunners with poison slings good "Skreech Lightening" Doomwheel good 998.5 points This group did well. In both games the slaves tarpitted units while the main clanrat unit with my warlock and warlord shot magic, warpfire, and kept everyone from breaking. The first game the doomwheel didn't do much. 2nd game it ripped elves apart...this machine seems AWESOME! He didn't have much he could do to stop it! which is not uncommon in 1000 point games with an elite army. In higher point values they start to have problems that numerous threads cover, The gutterrunners didn't do too much, but enough to make him not ignore them, and worry about his rear and flanks. And my warlord on bonebreaker? YOWEE! He was the strongest presence on the table. No elf could kill him. We cleared this up What do you guys think of this list? It can, and hopefully will, get better. but it's not like an "OMG bad" list. it just has clear room for improvement. I might leave the gutter runners home, and spend the 90 points on another unit of slaves, clanrats, or another/strong mage. The gutter runners are cool to harass, but I think another full unit of slaves or another engineer mage would be better imo atleast against elves. against elves gutter runners are actually quite amazing, they are difficult for the elites (which have little armor) to deal with. Edited by Mathusala0, 20th December 2011 - 06:47 AM.
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![]() The Glossary of Common Underempire Lingo The Skaven Guide to competitive list building (8th Edition) The Skaven Castle Formation | ||
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| breenii | 20th December 2011 - 07:53 AM Post #10 | |
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SKAVEN SURVIVOR
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Not bad for a new player, GL ! | |
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My rat ate my other rat. Do not blame the rat for its nature. | ||
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| Ratatak Gristlegouger | 20th December 2011 - 07:19 PM Post #11 | |
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Stormvermin
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Math, I do realize that online, without the spoken word, sarcasm and its ilk can be construed differently than it was intended. Also, I can see how my post could have been construed as arrogant, but in no way was that my intent. I was just excited. (and acting as a Skaven on a Bonebreaker might... )But, thank you for your last post. That was very helpful. I will take the spears away from the slaves and add shields. I will, when my opponent starts bringing things that can target the bonebreaker, move the warlord to a litter perhaps. Should I keep spears on the clanrats, or give them the parry save as well? And good suggestion with the condenser paired with warp lightening. Again, thank you all. |
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| "Doooom rockets in flight.... Afternoon delight!" | ||
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| Mathusala0 | 20th December 2011 - 07:39 PM Post #12 | |
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The Evil Underlord
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understandable, And I do apologize for the "shutting down"
I actually have to change a few of my comments based off of th fact that I was unaware the bonebreaker could be targeted out by shooting and magic misses let alone cannons. the shield becomes a decent option, but the fact that he can be focused by anything is pretty lame and frankly I think the extra wound and attacks are not worth having your character shot to death. (I was actually hoping to find some kind of rules layering to make him get protection from at least ranged attacks, alas) while a storm banner may be able to keep him safe its still a hefty investment that can die relativity fast. the slaves could actually keep the spears, the clanrats want to have shields only however, clanrats are actually one of the most (if not the most) durable close combat unit for their points.
wha... thats not a suggestion... it's a fact... the condenser makes warp lightning a better spell, Since your paying points for the condenser, its almost heresy to not take warp lightning barring extreme circumstances. (like getting cracks call while playing ogres for instance) |
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![]() The Glossary of Common Underempire Lingo The Skaven Guide to competitive list building (8th Edition) The Skaven Castle Formation | ||
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