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Ugh: Skaven Mess; 2,000 Points
Topic Started: 17th December 2011 - 02:46 PM (321 Views)
Deleted User
Deleted User

I’m trying to throw a decent list together for a 2000 – 2200 point game against dwarfs.


Grey Seer – Skalm

Warlord – war litter, enchanted shield, dwarf bane

BSB – shield

Warlock – naked

Plague Priest – flail, furnace, iron curse icon


30 Slaves

30 Slaves

20 Clanrats (full command)

40 Clanrats (full command)

44 Stormvermin (full command) Razor Banner

45 Plague Monks (full command) Plague Banner

5 Gutter Runners – slings and poison

5 Gutter Runners – slings and poison

Warp lightning Cannon

I haven't included points because I'm still messing with it.


That’s about it. I know I have two lord choices but I thought I could keep the seer and BSB with the 20 clanrats and have the warlord go with the stormvermin pack an extra punch. I guess I’m too old school because I feel odd going with just a seer lord.

I own everything in the skaven range but it’s not all ready to be used at this point so I’m a bit limited. I know everyone is going to say I need more slaves but I’m kind of stuck with 30. I only use the old metal models and it’s a miracle that I could manage to get 60 of them. I will probably be able to bump that up to around 35 with unit fillers latter on though.

I really wanted to add some weapon teams (maybe a doom-flayer) or another unit of clanrats but I’m not too sure.

Is it rubbish?

Maybe I could drop the furnace and add a doom-flayer, PWM, and a rat dart.

Don't know if those are more effective or if the monks need the furnace to pose a thread to dwarfs.
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sicsempertyrannids


I suggest a couple of rat darts, they're only 23 points each. Also, the two units of slaves are too small at 30 apiece. Bulk them up to 40. You could also use a couple of weapon teams. Your magic looks good. The monks would be fine w/o the furnace, they have a bunch of attacks and better initiative than Dwarf core. I don't think a doomflayer's worth it, though. Maybe a Warpfire thrower.
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Deleted User
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That sounds good but like I said I'm a bit stuck with the slave numbers. I'm only using the metal slaves from the 80's which are brutal to find at a good price.

I will have to try to figure out some interesting unit fillers to bulk them up (maybe some of the really old rat ogres).

The furnace does feel like a lot of points so I will have to think about dropping it. I guess I just really like how it looks in the army.

I could drop the furnace and add:

3 rat darts
weapon team (still stuck on the doom-flayer for some reason)
10 more slaves

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sicsempertyrannids


You can always just buy a couple packs of clanrats and use them as slaves. Otherwise, dropping the furnace sounds good. They're going to blast it with all their cannons etc. anyway.
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Deleted User
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I have a billion of the metal clanrats but they just don't fit with the slave units very well
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Mathusala0
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The Evil Underlord

Grey Seer – Skalm

4+ ward save is always better than skalm

Warlord – war litter, enchanted shield, dwarf bane

kinda low on protection to be slugging it out against dwarves with great weapons

BSB – shield

good

Warlock – naked

why naked? if your going to use him as a rat dart you need to say so. personally with that big block of SV you'll want skavenbrew.

Plague Priest – flail, furnace, iron curse icon

good n theory, but almost all dwarves are wielding great weapons. the furnace will die very quickly.

30 Slaves

make them 40s with music

30 Slaves

make them 40s with music

20 Clanrats (full command)

as a bunker, sure but give them shields

40 Clanrats (full command)

give them shields

44 Stormvermin (full command) Razor Banner

good

45 Plague Monks (full command) Plague Banner

this unit is a little large for a furnace unit. but if you drop the furnace it should be fine. its still going to struggle against T4 dwarves, even with 40ish attacks.

5 Gutter Runners – slings and poison

5 Gutter Runners – slings and poison

both good

Warp lightning Cannon

good
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Deleted User
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clanrats have should have shields (forgot)

The warlock is there to get in the way as well.

I did want to fit skaven brew in so maybe I will drop the furnace.

What type of protection should I go for on the warlord? 5+ ward save?

Does the seer really need a 4 + ward? I don't plan on him getting into combat.


could someone fill me in on why to take the music with the slaves? I didn't think I would need it.


I agree that the monks will struggle with T 4 but I don't have HPA put together.
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Mathusala0
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The Evil Underlord

What type of protection should I go for on the warlord? 5+ ward save?

try to at least get a better armor save.

Does the seer really need a 4 + ward? I don't plan on him getting into combat.

death magic, sniper rule, miscasts. all good reasons to protect your already big investment.

could someone fill me in on why to take the music with the slaves? I didn't think I would need it.

Swift reforms, allows you to turn and face enemies easier and get in the way better. its only 1 slave worth of pionts

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Deleted User
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Thanks for the help


Grey Seer – foul pendant

Warlord – war litter, enchanted shield, dwarf bane

BSB – shield

Warlock – naked

Plague Priest – flail, iron curse icon


40 Slaves

40 Slaves

Rat dart

Rat dart

20 Clanrats (full command) shields

40 Clanrats (full command) shields

44 Stormvermin (full command) Razor Banner and doom-flayer

41 Plague Monks (full command) Plague Banner

5 Gutter Runners – slings and poison

5 Gutter Runners – slings and poison

Warp lightning Cannon



Still over points so I have to cut it down but I will start from here. I guess I should just ditch the warlord and doom-flayer and maybe replace him with a chieftain. Can I get away with reducing the monks and storm vermin? What is a good unit size for 2,000 points for skaven "elites"?

This is still strange to me. My mind is still used to 4th edition where I would spend like 700 points on characters and magic items. Ld 10 Crown of Command ftw.

I really need to get working on the HPA so I can just run monks or SV. It would save a bunch of points.
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Gazz't Rootgnasher
Clanrat
As a general rule, I never really run much more than 30 Stormvermin, but I might be inclined to run more if I were bunkering something like a Screaming Bell. That's a personal thing.

Also, I'm of the type that you go for Stormvermin or Plague Monks, but not both. Points-wise they're exactly the same without adding upgrades. At 7 points a model you probably want to limit that to one unit of that level and take much of the rest in core or rare. If you drop one or the other of those units, you could open up points for things like Poisoned Wind Mortars, which are just amazing against everyone, and maybe some of the Skryre fun pieces. That naked Warlock could easily run a Doomrocket, which is still something no army wants to take a hit from.

I guess what it boils down to is what you want out of your hammers, staying power or frenzy power. I never run my clanrats without an attached team, they earn their points back too much to not be used readily. Generally I'll go for 2 Mortars and one Warpfire Thrower, and keep the thrower close to my bunker in case it gets to Stand and Shoot.

Ultimately it's up to you, but review the reasons you want the Stormvermin and the Plague Monks and, personally speaking, pick one unit. You're investing a lot of points into two close combat units, which has never been a Skaven strong point, and will definitely do you little good against a Dwarf army.

Last note, if you find the spare points, maybe look into a Storm Banner to shut down the dwarf war machines. With the Gutter Runner units, maybe not such a big problem, but it's still going to hurt having however many cannons they field versus your one Warp Lightning.
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Deleted User
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I can see what you mean but I feel a bit naked with only one tough unit.

I might get rid of the monks and try a doom wheel
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Gazz't Rootgnasher
Clanrat
Doomwheels are nice and very fun for what they do. I'm just saying that the mainstay of Skaven is to have bodies on the table, and while those two units are good in terms of what they do individually, it's a bad idea to have them both on the table because it robs you of other things that could help sway the game, which is why I go one or the other (usually favoring the SV myself)

As for tough units, we sadly don't get many of those, but I get what you mean. I consider tough in a different light, though, being that the unit has a high number of models as opposed to a lot of staying power, per se.

At any rate, Rares add a lot of punch to the game, especially in a Skaven list, so definitely try it out a bit, see how you like it. I field 2 cannons and 1 wheel in my usual list.
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Just used this list against a dwarf army and I didn’t do very well. I’m sure a lot of it was due to my lack of proficiency in playing the army.

The Dwarf list (roughly):

Rune Lord (rune of spite, spell breaking, rune of balance)
Thane (some type of protection)
BSB (not really sure)

25 Hammers

25 Long Beards

three units of 20 or so warriors

Bolt Thrower
Cannon
Grudge Thrower
Organ Gun

This list was perfectly fit to fight against my army/play style.


My Skaven list:

Grey Seer – 4 + ward save

BSB – shield

Warlock – skaven brew

Warlock – (Level 1) condenser

Plague Priest – flail, iron curse icon


40 Slaves

40 Slaves



20 Clan rats (full command) shields (bunker)

30 Clan rats (full command) shields PWM

30 Clan rats (full command) shields PWM

36 or 40 Stormvermin (full command) Razor Banner

29 Plague Monks (full command) Plague Banner

5 Gutter Runners – slings and poison

5 Gutter Runners – slings and poison

Warp lightning Cannon




As for the game he basically moved everything up and shot at me with the war machines, which didn’t do a lot.

I set up with my Seer’s bunker in the middle set back. I had the storm vermin on one side and the monks on the other. The slaves were on the side with the monks, while the clan rats were on the side with the storm vermin.

I moved up both units of slaves and eventually he charged into them. The storm vermin (rolled a 6 with skaven brew) charged into a unit of warriors and sent them running cut failed to catch them (this would be a theme).

I kept the two units of clan rats back a bit and just used the mortars. They didn’t kill a lot but I can see the potential. Speaking of shooting, the WLC managed to not kill anything the entire game (horrible).

The gutter runners managed to take out a few of the war machines before being cut to pieces by the organ gun. They both panicked rolling 8’s (ugh).

The slaves did a decent job holding two of his units but I just didn’t know what to do at this point. My storm vermin were chasing some idiot warriors and my clan rats were too far away. I decided to throw the plague monks into the long beards being held up by the slaves (terrible idea).

The monks really suck against heavy armor and high toughness. The priest did manage to kill the BSB in combat but I still lost by 1. I learned the lesson to not fight in a combat that includes slaves, which equal easy combat resolution for my opponent.

The monks and slaves were eventually charged by his unit of hammerers and broke.

At this point I knew I was screwed. The storm vermin finally destroyed the warriors and one of my clan rat units was stuck in with some other warriors.

His two toughest units were in the middle of my line after catching the plague monks and I was out of options. As a last ditch move I threw my Seer’s bunker into the flank of his long beards and almost got them to break.

I basically did a terrible job of taking out his units.

The other frustrating part of the game was that my magic was just plain horrible. That rune of balance was killing me. He usually had as many dispel dice as I had casting dice. I only got a few spells off that did nothing.

To be honest I did have some really bad magic rolls. I also took plague spells with my seer and didn’t get wither. I’m wondering if I should go with the spells of ruin next time. Is that just how it goes against dwarfs in terms of magic? The majority of my character points were in magic and he just shut it down.


ugh

Sorry for being so long winded. Hopefully someone can slog through this and give me some advice. I guess I just don’t really know how to use my slaves effectively. Deployment is also an issue.

For the next game I plan on dropping the monks and adding a HPA. I also think I need to use the slaves and maybe a block of clan rats to move up the middle and try to flank with the storm vermin and HPA.

Or do I stay back and shoot?

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