| Ugh: Skaven Mess; 2,000 Points | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: 17th December 2011 - 02:46 PM (321 Views) | |
| Deleted User | 17th December 2011 - 02:46 PM Post #1 |
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Deleted User
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I’m trying to throw a decent list together for a 2000 – 2200 point game against dwarfs. Grey Seer – Skalm Warlord – war litter, enchanted shield, dwarf bane BSB – shield Warlock – naked Plague Priest – flail, furnace, iron curse icon 30 Slaves 30 Slaves 20 Clanrats (full command) 40 Clanrats (full command) 44 Stormvermin (full command) Razor Banner 45 Plague Monks (full command) Plague Banner 5 Gutter Runners – slings and poison 5 Gutter Runners – slings and poison Warp lightning Cannon I haven't included points because I'm still messing with it. That’s about it. I know I have two lord choices but I thought I could keep the seer and BSB with the 20 clanrats and have the warlord go with the stormvermin pack an extra punch. I guess I’m too old school because I feel odd going with just a seer lord. I own everything in the skaven range but it’s not all ready to be used at this point so I’m a bit limited. I know everyone is going to say I need more slaves but I’m kind of stuck with 30. I only use the old metal models and it’s a miracle that I could manage to get 60 of them. I will probably be able to bump that up to around 35 with unit fillers latter on though. I really wanted to add some weapon teams (maybe a doom-flayer) or another unit of clanrats but I’m not too sure. Is it rubbish? Maybe I could drop the furnace and add a doom-flayer, PWM, and a rat dart. Don't know if those are more effective or if the monks need the furnace to pose a thread to dwarfs. |
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| sicsempertyrannids | 17th December 2011 - 03:33 PM Post #2 |
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I suggest a couple of rat darts, they're only 23 points each. Also, the two units of slaves are too small at 30 apiece. Bulk them up to 40. You could also use a couple of weapon teams. Your magic looks good. The monks would be fine w/o the furnace, they have a bunch of attacks and better initiative than Dwarf core. I don't think a doomflayer's worth it, though. Maybe a Warpfire thrower. |
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| Deleted User | 17th December 2011 - 03:43 PM Post #3 |
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Deleted User
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That sounds good but like I said I'm a bit stuck with the slave numbers. I'm only using the metal slaves from the 80's which are brutal to find at a good price. I will have to try to figure out some interesting unit fillers to bulk them up (maybe some of the really old rat ogres). The furnace does feel like a lot of points so I will have to think about dropping it. I guess I just really like how it looks in the army. I could drop the furnace and add: 3 rat darts weapon team (still stuck on the doom-flayer for some reason) 10 more slaves |
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| sicsempertyrannids | 17th December 2011 - 03:48 PM Post #4 |
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You can always just buy a couple packs of clanrats and use them as slaves. Otherwise, dropping the furnace sounds good. They're going to blast it with all their cannons etc. anyway. |
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| Deleted User | 17th December 2011 - 04:06 PM Post #5 |
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Deleted User
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I have a billion of the metal clanrats but they just don't fit with the slave units very well |
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| Mathusala0 | 17th December 2011 - 04:17 PM Post #6 |
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The Evil Underlord
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Grey Seer – Skalm 4+ ward save is always better than skalm Warlord – war litter, enchanted shield, dwarf bane kinda low on protection to be slugging it out against dwarves with great weapons BSB – shield good Warlock – naked why naked? if your going to use him as a rat dart you need to say so. personally with that big block of SV you'll want skavenbrew. Plague Priest – flail, furnace, iron curse icon good n theory, but almost all dwarves are wielding great weapons. the furnace will die very quickly. 30 Slaves make them 40s with music 30 Slaves make them 40s with music 20 Clanrats (full command) as a bunker, sure but give them shields 40 Clanrats (full command) give them shields 44 Stormvermin (full command) Razor Banner good 45 Plague Monks (full command) Plague Banner this unit is a little large for a furnace unit. but if you drop the furnace it should be fine. its still going to struggle against T4 dwarves, even with 40ish attacks. 5 Gutter Runners – slings and poison 5 Gutter Runners – slings and poison both good Warp lightning Cannon good |
![]() The Glossary of Common Underempire Lingo The Skaven Guide to competitive list building (8th Edition) The Skaven Castle Formation | |
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| Deleted User | 17th December 2011 - 04:45 PM Post #7 |
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Deleted User
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clanrats have should have shields (forgot) The warlock is there to get in the way as well. I did want to fit skaven brew in so maybe I will drop the furnace. What type of protection should I go for on the warlord? 5+ ward save? Does the seer really need a 4 + ward? I don't plan on him getting into combat. could someone fill me in on why to take the music with the slaves? I didn't think I would need it. I agree that the monks will struggle with T 4 but I don't have HPA put together. |
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| Mathusala0 | 17th December 2011 - 07:17 PM Post #8 |
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The Evil Underlord
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What type of protection should I go for on the warlord? 5+ ward save? try to at least get a better armor save. Does the seer really need a 4 + ward? I don't plan on him getting into combat. death magic, sniper rule, miscasts. all good reasons to protect your already big investment. could someone fill me in on why to take the music with the slaves? I didn't think I would need it. Swift reforms, allows you to turn and face enemies easier and get in the way better. its only 1 slave worth of pionts |
![]() The Glossary of Common Underempire Lingo The Skaven Guide to competitive list building (8th Edition) The Skaven Castle Formation | |
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| Deleted User | 17th December 2011 - 07:45 PM Post #9 |
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Deleted User
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Thanks for the help Grey Seer – foul pendant Warlord – war litter, enchanted shield, dwarf bane BSB – shield Warlock – naked Plague Priest – flail, iron curse icon 40 Slaves 40 Slaves Rat dart Rat dart 20 Clanrats (full command) shields 40 Clanrats (full command) shields 44 Stormvermin (full command) Razor Banner and doom-flayer 41 Plague Monks (full command) Plague Banner 5 Gutter Runners – slings and poison 5 Gutter Runners – slings and poison Warp lightning Cannon Still over points so I have to cut it down but I will start from here. I guess I should just ditch the warlord and doom-flayer and maybe replace him with a chieftain. Can I get away with reducing the monks and storm vermin? What is a good unit size for 2,000 points for skaven "elites"? This is still strange to me. My mind is still used to 4th edition where I would spend like 700 points on characters and magic items. Ld 10 Crown of Command ftw. I really need to get working on the HPA so I can just run monks or SV. It would save a bunch of points. |
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| Gazz't Rootgnasher | 17th December 2011 - 09:30 PM Post #10 |
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Clanrat
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As a general rule, I never really run much more than 30 Stormvermin, but I might be inclined to run more if I were bunkering something like a Screaming Bell. That's a personal thing. Also, I'm of the type that you go for Stormvermin or Plague Monks, but not both. Points-wise they're exactly the same without adding upgrades. At 7 points a model you probably want to limit that to one unit of that level and take much of the rest in core or rare. If you drop one or the other of those units, you could open up points for things like Poisoned Wind Mortars, which are just amazing against everyone, and maybe some of the Skryre fun pieces. That naked Warlock could easily run a Doomrocket, which is still something no army wants to take a hit from. I guess what it boils down to is what you want out of your hammers, staying power or frenzy power. I never run my clanrats without an attached team, they earn their points back too much to not be used readily. Generally I'll go for 2 Mortars and one Warpfire Thrower, and keep the thrower close to my bunker in case it gets to Stand and Shoot. Ultimately it's up to you, but review the reasons you want the Stormvermin and the Plague Monks and, personally speaking, pick one unit. You're investing a lot of points into two close combat units, which has never been a Skaven strong point, and will definitely do you little good against a Dwarf army. Last note, if you find the spare points, maybe look into a Storm Banner to shut down the dwarf war machines. With the Gutter Runner units, maybe not such a big problem, but it's still going to hurt having however many cannons they field versus your one Warp Lightning. |
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| Deleted User | 18th December 2011 - 12:03 AM Post #11 |
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Deleted User
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I can see what you mean but I feel a bit naked with only one tough unit. I might get rid of the monks and try a doom wheel |
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| Gazz't Rootgnasher | 18th December 2011 - 12:48 AM Post #12 |
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Clanrat
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Doomwheels are nice and very fun for what they do. I'm just saying that the mainstay of Skaven is to have bodies on the table, and while those two units are good in terms of what they do individually, it's a bad idea to have them both on the table because it robs you of other things that could help sway the game, which is why I go one or the other (usually favoring the SV myself) As for tough units, we sadly don't get many of those, but I get what you mean. I consider tough in a different light, though, being that the unit has a high number of models as opposed to a lot of staying power, per se. At any rate, Rares add a lot of punch to the game, especially in a Skaven list, so definitely try it out a bit, see how you like it. I field 2 cannons and 1 wheel in my usual list. |
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| Deleted User | 30th December 2011 - 08:29 PM Post #13 |
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Deleted User
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Just used this list against a dwarf army and I didn’t do very well. I’m sure a lot of it was due to my lack of proficiency in playing the army. The Dwarf list (roughly): Rune Lord (rune of spite, spell breaking, rune of balance) Thane (some type of protection) BSB (not really sure) 25 Hammers 25 Long Beards three units of 20 or so warriors Bolt Thrower Cannon Grudge Thrower Organ Gun This list was perfectly fit to fight against my army/play style. My Skaven list: Grey Seer – 4 + ward save BSB – shield Warlock – skaven brew Warlock – (Level 1) condenser Plague Priest – flail, iron curse icon 40 Slaves 40 Slaves 20 Clan rats (full command) shields (bunker) 30 Clan rats (full command) shields PWM 30 Clan rats (full command) shields PWM 36 or 40 Stormvermin (full command) Razor Banner 29 Plague Monks (full command) Plague Banner 5 Gutter Runners – slings and poison 5 Gutter Runners – slings and poison Warp lightning Cannon As for the game he basically moved everything up and shot at me with the war machines, which didn’t do a lot. I set up with my Seer’s bunker in the middle set back. I had the storm vermin on one side and the monks on the other. The slaves were on the side with the monks, while the clan rats were on the side with the storm vermin. I moved up both units of slaves and eventually he charged into them. The storm vermin (rolled a 6 with skaven brew) charged into a unit of warriors and sent them running cut failed to catch them (this would be a theme). I kept the two units of clan rats back a bit and just used the mortars. They didn’t kill a lot but I can see the potential. Speaking of shooting, the WLC managed to not kill anything the entire game (horrible). The gutter runners managed to take out a few of the war machines before being cut to pieces by the organ gun. They both panicked rolling 8’s (ugh). The slaves did a decent job holding two of his units but I just didn’t know what to do at this point. My storm vermin were chasing some idiot warriors and my clan rats were too far away. I decided to throw the plague monks into the long beards being held up by the slaves (terrible idea). The monks really suck against heavy armor and high toughness. The priest did manage to kill the BSB in combat but I still lost by 1. I learned the lesson to not fight in a combat that includes slaves, which equal easy combat resolution for my opponent. The monks and slaves were eventually charged by his unit of hammerers and broke. At this point I knew I was screwed. The storm vermin finally destroyed the warriors and one of my clan rat units was stuck in with some other warriors. His two toughest units were in the middle of my line after catching the plague monks and I was out of options. As a last ditch move I threw my Seer’s bunker into the flank of his long beards and almost got them to break. I basically did a terrible job of taking out his units. The other frustrating part of the game was that my magic was just plain horrible. That rune of balance was killing me. He usually had as many dispel dice as I had casting dice. I only got a few spells off that did nothing. To be honest I did have some really bad magic rolls. I also took plague spells with my seer and didn’t get wither. I’m wondering if I should go with the spells of ruin next time. Is that just how it goes against dwarfs in terms of magic? The majority of my character points were in magic and he just shut it down. ugh Sorry for being so long winded. Hopefully someone can slog through this and give me some advice. I guess I just don’t really know how to use my slaves effectively. Deployment is also an issue. For the next game I plan on dropping the monks and adding a HPA. I also think I need to use the slaves and maybe a block of clan rats to move up the middle and try to flank with the storm vermin and HPA. Or do I stay back and shoot? |
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