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Help guys, I'm getting mauled here; 2000 points
Topic Started: 15th December 2011 - 11:41 AM (533 Views)
saitou187
Clanrat
someone please tell me what i'm doing wrong here is the list i been using i been getting absolutely penetrated anally by empire twice.

Heroes
Chieftain BSB halberd storm banner
Warlock engineer lvl 2 doom rocket warp energy condenser
Plague priest on furnace

Core
46 clanrats with handweaps and shields full command plus PWM
37 slaves with musician
36 storm vermin full command banner of clan superior with doom flayer

Special
3 jezzails with sharpshooter
33 plague monks pushin the furnace full command shroud of dripping death
9 gutter runners with death runner

Rare
doomwheel
WLC


please help me improve my list i have basically everything available to me and i'm happy to buy or order anything i don't have i am so angry this guys army was so dirty i must have REVENGE!!!!
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Chico
Member Avatar
Clanrat
Your lacking Lords, If you want a higher chance of winning a near naked Grey Seer is a must, you spent alot of points on the wonder weapons and banners, but lack Rats.. 1 Rat for every 10pts seems to be the norm.

Give your gutters PA and slings, your also lacking a small bunker unit (Where you hide your bsb and gen), get rid of the Banners except the Storm Banner and cut down on the Warlock toys, Doom Rocket or Caster imho never together. Remember its only 15pts for another warlock to share the load.

3 Jezzails are pointless, either take 10 or not at all.
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saitou187
Clanrat
thanks for the reply, I'm happy to rewrite the list entirely ill spend whatever i have to on new stuff if required so please don't hold back on adjustments =]
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jpd
Plague Decon
Whats your opponent fielding? And roughly how is he getting the better of you?

And I take it your plague monk is your general? Give your plague priest a fail it will help a little in CC

If you find your lacking a little with magic put a grey seer in and hide him at the back of your army with a small unit of Stormvermin or clan rats 20 should be enough.

Personally I think you've invested a lot on your engineer, you could quite easily get a lot more from the points with

Lv1 engineer
Engineer with doom rocket
Engineer with brass orb

I'd drop the Stormvermin or at least cut them down to 20 and use them to flank your enemy.

Get another unit of (I can't believe I'm saying this) slaves I like slaves with shields thats 6+ save and a 6+ ward helps them out a bit


specials

Plague monks try switching to the plague banner much better in my opinion and charge that unit and the furnace into his best unit and activate it in the 1st round of combat :)

drop the jazzails they can be good for knights but so are gutter runners with slings and poison roles to hit automatically wound on a 6 you can also drop the death runner personally I never go with one.

How are you using the gutter runners are they deploying after everyone else or are you taking the gamble of bringing them in as sneeky infiltrators?
pretend inferiority and encourage his arrogance
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saitou187
Clanrat
jpd
15th December 2011 - 01:18 PM
Whats your opponent fielding? And roughly how is he getting the better of you?

And I take it your plague monk is your general? Give your plague priest a fail it will help a little in CC

If you find your lacking a little with magic put a grey seer in and hide him at the back of your army with a small unit of Stormvermin or clan rats 20 should be enough.

Personally I think you've invested a lot on your engineer, you could quite easily get a lot more from the points with

Lv1 engineer
Engineer with doom rocket
Engineer with brass orb

I'd drop the Stormvermin or at least cut them down to 20 and use them to flank your enemy.

Get another unit of (I can't believe I'm saying this) slaves I like slaves with shields thats 6+ save and a 6+ ward helps them out a bit


specials

Plague monks try switching to the plague banner much better in my opinion and charge that unit and the furnace into his best unit and activate it in the 1st round of combat :)

drop the jazzails they can be good for knights but so are gutter runners with slings and poison roles to hit automatically wound on a 6 you can also drop the death runner personally I never go with one.

How are you using the gutter runners are they deploying after everyone else or are you taking the gamble of bringing them in as sneeky infiltrators?
He is shooting the doodoo out of me and magicing the doodoo out of me before i get into combat and he also had +2 armour saves with re rolls (what the f is that) on two of his characters in this unit of knights which tied up my furnace unit forever he was ripping me with mortars and spells mostly, also i don't know the rules well and i'm pretty damn sure he was taking advantage of my lack of knowledge. he had the unit of knights with a captain and another character then he had 2 units of core troops abt 20 30 strong and had some shooting units in a tower and 2 cannons and 2 mortars and a level 4 spell caster and another spell caster
Edited by saitou187, 15th December 2011 - 01:37 PM.
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Fenris
Chieftain
1-Grey seer why wouldn't you take it?
2-lose the halberd on the cheiften take a hand weapon shield. him being alive is so much more important than plus 1 strength
3-leave the engineer alone but for the lvl. he only needs to be lvl1 doom rocket condenser works perfectly well
4-take a 20 ratman unit of clannies for bunker with the grey seer and bsb
5-two units of slave at at least 40 but they are so cheap make em fifty. If you like the shields go for it I personally wouldn't waste the points protecting garbage when I could just add more to em.
6-I love my clannies so I always take a unit of forty with shields and standard. no spears. we do not win games through combat we win by being to many to handle.
7-I would lose the storm vermin entirely, you want to beat empire? well, the best core they have make storm vermin their B!#$%@&. and that is sad.
8-I love the doomflayer. It has never let me down. and the model is sweet. and if it dies and blows up. well it has killed just as many models like that as it has in combat. But people will tell you leave it at home.
9-jezzails are only good for knights. no one uses knights anymore. 8th is about the infantry
10-gutter runners must have poison attacks and slings. it kill thos pesky cannons and mortars which must be messing you up.
11- doomwheel will be helpful
12-warplightning cannon will not, cannons will kill monsters. three armies don't use monsters very often, dwarves, high elves, and empire. I would adjust accordingly and get somthing that kills infantry. we happen to have one of those. its aptly nicknamed the A-bomb.
Quote:
 
It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace--but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death! March 23, 1775- Patrick Henry
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saitou187
Clanrat
I haven't got a grey seer model apart from the bell which i haven't built yet and i don't believe in using other models to represent if you don't have it you don't have it i also don't believe in using unpainted models but i don't like getting beaten so badly so from now on i'm writing my list to win and i dont care if the whole table is grey and not the right models for whatever im fielding.im writing a new list as i post this i will post it up when im done keep the suggestions coming guys thx

update: OK i finished the new list pls let me know if i should make ne other adjustments I really must have vengeance on this guy in a game or i may have to resort to physical violence in the parking lot.

Points Summary

Lord Points:30015.00%
Hero Points35117.55%
Core Points:55727.85%
Special Points:39219.60%
Rare Points:40020.00%
Total Points:2000
grey seer
skalm shadow magnet trinket 300

heroes
engineer lvl 1 warp energy condense doom rocket

cheiftain bsb shield

priest level 2 flail

CORE
20 clanrats bunker shields pwm 155
38 slaves muso 78
3 slaves muso 78
38 clanrats shields f/c doom flayer 246

SPECIAL
29 plague monks f/c plague banner 248

8 gutter runners slings and PA

RARE
DOOMWHEEL
HPA with warpstone spikes
WLC
Edited by saitou187, 15th December 2011 - 02:43 PM.
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jpd
Plague Decon
plague claw catapult can work well against empire, big round template with no armour saves, and if a model takes a wound panic test ;) ok its only s2 but your opponent is only t3 well worth it in my opinion especially if you get his knights or big block of inventory.

are you remembering to do the t test for his knights in every round of combat?

also try your gutter runners as sneaky infiltrators they can enter the board from any table edge on a 4+ from turn 2
right behind his mortar crew ;) then unlesh those poison slings he wont like that

warpstone spikes arent necessary put another WE in and give him the doom rocket and put him in with the slaves to die hopefully he fires it before he does and takes out a few man things
Edited by jpd, 15th December 2011 - 03:45 PM.
pretend inferiority and encourage his arrogance
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Mathusala0
Member Avatar
The Evil Underlord

Lord Points:300 15.00%
Hero Points351 17.55%
Core Points:557 27.85%
Special Points:392 19.60%
Rare Points:400 20.00%
Total Points:2000


grey seer
skalm shadow magnet trinket 300

Drop his gear and get him a 4+ ward save, hes your general, he needs one.

heroes
engineer lvl 1 warp energy condense doom rocket

A good old Warplock engineer

cheiftain bsb shield

good

priest level 2 flail

get rid of level 2. waste of points with a grey sear

CORE
20 clanrats bunker shields pwm 155

bunkers should have full command...

38 slaves muso 78
38 slaves muso 78

find the points to make these both 40s

38 clanrats shields f/c doom flayer 246

Get a wind mortar over a doomflayer, also invest in a standard and musician.

SPECIAL
29 plague monks f/c plague banner 248

good

8 gutter runners slings and PA

Id highly consider dropping some of these in a search for a storm banner, I think storm banner is infinity better at getting you across the table than gutter runners, its also cheaper.

RARE
DOOMWHEEL
HPA with warpstone spikes
WLC

rares are fine, Id consider dropping the doomwheel for a second cannon,
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Fenris
Chieftain
Thats right brother stick with that doomflayer. I love that thing. and it will help imensly against thoselow toughness humans. even if it misfires and blows up it will still make enough point back to pay for itself. Though i would take a disp scroll on the grey seer. and a talisman of preservation. but thats my preference. I tend to not need the skalm because he'll be dead by the time he needs it most anyway. spend the points on more slaves. and if he's not running a steam tank then you don't need to use the WLC. i might lose it and cut the gutter runners own to two units of between 6 and 8. it gives you a better chance of getting that four plus you need to trounce his artillery. but really you NEED TO post what hes using so we can better help you. Help us help you better. It's like this man. Empire can be tooled in very different very effective ways and we need that info to counter it. If he takes an all artillery army with cannons helblaster helstorm and morters you'll need more gutter runners and some night runners with some warpgrinders to get close to him. and warpgale and storm banner is a must. Or if he's rocking the two wizard lord with life and shadow boosting his large blocks of infantry you need to be able to shut his magic phase down. or if he'sot two stanks you need to get down and dirty with some doom wheels and wlc's as many as you can get.
Quote:
 
It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace--but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death! March 23, 1775- Patrick Henry
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saitou187
Clanrat
thanks for the tips guys, i can't remember exactly what his list was but i knwo there were no tanks
2 units of infantry one was shooting he had a bunch of shooting guys in a building and 2 wizards and a unit of 6 knights with 2 heroes in it with annoying as armour saves (like 2+ or 1+ wITH re rolls wtf who made that rule i want to hit them) he had 1 cannon and 2 mortars. but yeah u guys have given me enuf info for me to be able to atleast modify my list a bit on the spot if i have to if i'm going to play him again, also what tactics should i use against this other guy he's an elf player that uses teclis and the whole magic phase vs him is really really annoying, doomwheel worked really well against him last time shooting was terrible.
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Fenris
Chieftain
I want you to look taht elf player in the face and tell him to take teclis shove him up his............... anyway just ask him why he can't make a list with out it? Is he not a good enough player to win without the help of one of the worst magic users in the game (worst as in the worst possible to play against) I'm sorry I just hate elves with a burning fire deep in my gut. But fighting the elves is pretty striaght forward. Same as the empire. but they have movement, better magic and better combat, but far worse shooting. So they own three phases of the game. until they fight us that is. So here it is. the worst they have for combat will be the Sword masters. even a unit of ten will womp you in the face. but they can be dealt with. The arguably best way for us to deal with them is to make them a target for all our ranged and magic arsenals. Plague will work best. then you need to tarpit them with no less tahn fifty slaves. and keep the general bsb bunker near by for the reroll and leadership. then flank em with something big and killy, like an a-bom. But don't rely on the magic. they have the best defense when it comes to magicand even have a banner that will actually make the unit it is with immune to magic spells. But it's expensive and rquires a BSB. You shouldn't see it often. their magic phase is awful to sit through. Bring a disp scroll and only dispell the most important spells let the others go through. Plague will trounce some elve though so bring it. and remember that the pla gue spell breath attack can be used in close combat a ull phase before combat so it will help get you some kills before he hits you.
Quote:
 
It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace--but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death! March 23, 1775- Patrick Henry
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jpd
Plague Decon
A grey seer will help against both armies you also have two other lv1 wizards although not fantastic it gives you three channeling opportunities and a bit of variety.

gutter runners as I've said try positioning them 12" from the enemy as close to the weapon team as you are permitted after everyone has set up. If you have two units you can take the gamble at deploying these in round 2 which is a nice surprise. remember gutter runners have the job of hunting warmachines and large creatures where their poison slings can get you quick wins, dont fall into the trap of charging them at other units move round your opponents to restrict marching and try to get him to turn and devide his forces also don't worry about his guns you have a dodge save so no modifiers against you for saves.

deployment spread your units out bit just so they are within 12" of your general and bsb. I'd also keep these to the rear

and march as quick as you can accross that board to reduce the effect of his cannons and mortars, he can't shoot them if theres a realistic chance of hitting his own troops.

Keep the slaves to the front its there job to die.

Furnace remember make him take his T test every round of combat before any blows are struck against his front rank and as a lovely bonus any failed tests are automatic wounds no Armour saves. and the wrecker hits last for each of your turns and if you charge the impact hits
pretend inferiority and encourage his arrogance
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Borgomos
Warlord
Re-rollable 2+ armor isn't such an incredible thing. You can even tool a warlord to have a similar armor save with Warlitter and some magic items. Skaven have bazillions of tools to get rid of High armor targets. Warriors of Chaos can field 1+rerollable armor save plus a 3+Ward, how about that :)
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Rein bringer of the cheese
Warlord
Well the brets also can field alot of 2+ AS, really annoying. Especially against the wrecker attack. Last game I had it Smack right into his general with 6 hits. Failing 3 of his 4+ AS then re-rolling to save all of them!

What I dont understand is, how is he getting 2 of these characters? Can only take a certain item once in an army so do empire have another in their item list ?
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