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1k Effectiveness?; How to build for 1K?
Topic Started: 11th December 2011 - 02:44 PM (700 Views)
jpf1982
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Grand Pubah of The Waaagh Cast!
So I'm looking at 1k lists for a number of small tournaments; but I'm really unsure how to build Skaven at 1k. We're talking hyper-competitive group of people so its not going to be softballing at all. Throw me some ideas...

Currently I thought...

Plague Priest
-Furnace
30 Plague Monks
-FC, Plague Banner
5 Gutter Runners
-Poison, Slings
Hellpit Abomination
30 Clanrats
-Shields, FC

Throw me some thoughts here folks.
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Mathusala0
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The Evil Underlord

Check the guide, im in a phone cant do decemt critique
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Overlord Dror
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Evil Rat Bastage
Not enough core to be a legal army. The list also seems light on models. Should be closer to 1 model per 10 points.

Da Dror
Build a better trap and Clan Moulder will build a better rat!!!!

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Borgomos
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Competitively speaking, a Furnace at 1k is a horrible idea. Here is why :

- With the Priest and Furnace your hero points are clogged, meaning no Warlocks,no dispel scroll, and most importantly , NO BSB!.

- A Furnace unit will consist of more than half of your points. Your opponent can just dance around it/abuse it's Frenzy

- Without a healthy number of slaves you can't delay units that you can't handle, and it will be hard to set up good charges.


Here are the things which I feel are central to a good 1k list.

- At least one decent sized slave unit(40-50). Very cheap, fills core points, holds stuff up, and at 1k, they can really hold a lot of things
- If you want to go Plague Monks, give them a Priest but no Furnace. Still a hard hitting unit, but not too eye-cathing.
- Field a BSB and consider taking a warlock or two. Get a dispel scroll.

- Decide if you want to take a Grey Seer or Warlord for those Lord allowance. You can get a decently equipped warlord for cheap, he can go in a Clanrat unit and make it actually do something in combat. If you prefer the magic of the seer, thats gonna cost you, and you will probably need more slaves to buy yourself time and throw those spells, and protect your seer from seeing combat.

To finish my critique i'll even post a draft list that i think can do well in 1k bracket.

Warlord, Litter, Halberd, Dragonhelm, Foul Pendant.

Chieftain, shield, BSB (can even buy a storm banner if you feel like it)

2 X 30 Clanrats, shields, standard, musician (Can house characters, provide ranks in combat, possibly weapon teams)

40 Slaves, musician

Doomwheel or Hellpit

This base provides you with 770-800 points. Rest can be filled with rat darts, warlocks, gutter runners, a caster, etc... I still think plague monks are too expensive before 1500 points.

Edited by Borgomos, 11th December 2011 - 05:30 PM.
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Sketch
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scratchings and squeakings

Borgomos has summed it up pretty nicely.

I'll further add that I think Skaven are pretty lethal at 1k. The sheer number of models we can field means its very difficult for enemies to get points off us. For this reason I believe it absolutely essential that you have at least one nice big unit of 40-45 slaves, two would be preferable. At this low level once something gets stuck in combat with that, you can be sure they're going to stay stuck until your HPA rolls up their flank.

I agree that Furnace eats up way too many points in your list. A BSB is utterly crucial and the Furnace is going to be too easy to dodge as it won't have enough support units. Instead I would either recommend a Grey Seer (very powerful at 1k and the better choice if you're going off powergaming) or a tag-team of Warlord and Level 1 Warlock with Warp Energy Condenser (coz magic missiles hurt things at low points). The BSB is so essential it's simply not up for discussion.

The uber-cheese 1k Skaven list I've never used but have anyway runs along the lines of:

Grey Seer (in clanrats)
BSB with shield (in clanrats)

30ish clanrats with shields, standard and musician
40ish slaves with musician
40ish slaves with musician

6 Gutter Runners with slings and poison (to deal with warmachines that threaten the HellPit

Hell Pit Abomination (coz there's not much any enemy will have that can deal with it)



There is a bit of play in how you can go about building a powerful Skaven list at this level and a lot of other things will work as well. It is of course possible to build fun lists at this level too... :P (Something I prefer to do.)
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jpf1982
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Grand Pubah of The Waaagh Cast!
I've always been a proponent of fun balanced lists. That's why I need help with this one. The players at this event are all well aware of the point which is to break it as much as you can.

I have to assume you would all suggest Lore of Ruin on a Greyseer for this?

I'm thinking I'll play about with both of your suggested lists. See how they work for me. Part of the trouble I'm having with Skaven in general right now (as a new Skaven player) is nailing down the play style. Previously I was running Dwarfs and O&G. I tended to go pretty straight at the enemy and If ind with Skaven that just does not work. Not that I'm shocked there, but its something I've got to figure out.
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SkavenDan
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Doomwheel Fanatic
id have a seer with ruin 2 warlocks lvl1s with warp a bsb 2 cannons and the rest on clanrats and slaves.

We can squeeze more than most into 1k
Edited by SkavenDan, 11th December 2011 - 08:45 PM.
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Mathusala0
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The Evil Underlord

borg and sketch have outlined well the principles of lists at these points levels. listen well ;)
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WarlordofRictus
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Manipulative Grey Seer
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11th December 2011 - 05:56 PM


Hell Pit Abomination (coz there's not much any enemy will have that can deal with it)

I dunno about that. Our Dark Elf player at 1k fields not only a Hydra, but also 18 Black Guard. Re-rolls due to Eternal Hatred are insane. They could easily match or overcome static CR of 40 Slaves due to sheer number of Wounds caused. You might stay thanks to Steadfast, but they're Stubborn as well. So.
Edited by WarlordofRictus, 11th December 2011 - 09:28 PM.
Yes-yes, o most clever of generals.
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Mathusala0
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The Evil Underlord

get him in the flank.

reroll that!
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Borgomos
Warlord
if i see a unit of 18 Black Guard i'll just scream and throw my doomrocket at them. The fact that they are stubborn won't matter much if you can kill them to the last man, and with 18 t3 models it's doable.

Regarding the Seer's lore, i usually go for Plague exclusively just to get Wither, Bless w Filth and Plague itself. But in 1000 point games Scorch suddenly becomes a whole lot better, because you will see smaller units, and by this same principle Warp Lightning can become more useful as well. Depending on my list i may still roll for the Plague Tree though.
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jpf1982
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Grand Pubah of The Waaagh Cast!
What bout this...

Greyseer
-General

Engineer
-LVL 1, Doomrocket

Engineer
-LVL 1

Chieftan
-BSB, Shield, Dragonhelm

1 Rat Darts

40 Slaves
-Shields, Musician

30 Clanrats
=FC

Hellpit Abomination

1,000pts

*shrug* Thoughts?
Edited by jpf1982, 11th December 2011 - 11:12 PM.
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SkavenDan
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Doomwheel Fanatic
Your under on your core requirements of 250
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Scarr, Reincarnated
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11th creator of the Skaven Achievements. Binder of IceAc.
SkavenDan
11th December 2011 - 11:18 PM
Your under on your core requirements of 250
And he has over 25% invested in Heroes...
The Pox on you, AND your kind!

Player of games, watcher of games, gamer of plays.


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Sketch
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scratchings and squeakings

Yep. That second Level One guy is a bit superfluous. Don't even really need an Engineer when you have a mighty Grey Seer eating up most of your power dice. As regards spells for the Grey Seer Ruin is in my experience pretty viable at these low points. I think what a lot of people [citation needed but it isn't going to get it :P ] go with is swinging thrice at Plague and once at Ruin but I don't particularly like plague so even in the most competitive of settings against the most Elfly of lists I'd still go with four on Ruin.

I'm not sure about the DragonHelm on the BSB. 's a decent object but that clanrat unit is simply to be a bodyguard for your general and BSB and ideally shouldn't be seeing combat at all. Probably one of the more minor points though.

*Drums fingers on desk* More slaves...? :P
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