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Opinions on a 2500 point list
Topic Started: 6th December 2011 - 07:40 PM (364 Views)
Gazz't Rootgnasher
Clanrat
Since I just joined up with the forum, I figured I'd ask for some opinions on my current list. I'm running this largely to have fun, but I want it to be competitive at least in that respect. Maybe not tournament competitive, but enough to rattle a few cages in some friendly-serious matches. Let me know what you think. Points are listed on the individual unit cost, so multiply by the number of listed units.

Lords

Ikit Claw 395

Queek Headtaker (Gen) 215

Heroes

Warlock Engineer 95
Level 1 Wiz
Doomrocket

Warlock Engineer 85
Level 1 Wiz
Warp Condenser

Warlock Engineer 65
Level 1 Wiz

Chieftain 70
BSB

Core

25 Clanrats 202.5
FC
WFT
Shields

2 x 25 Clanrats 197.5
FC
PWM
Shields

30 Stormvermin 260
FC
Banner of the Under-Empire

2 x 50 Slaves 102
Musician

3 x 5 Giant Rats, 1 Packmaster 23

Special

5 x Jezzails 100

Rare

2 x Warp Lightning Cannon 90

Doomwheel 150




There aren't any house rules at my local store prohibiting doubling up on cannons or anything of that nature, so from waht I'm aware, this list is fine in the numbers department. I just wanted to get a few opinions of the setup because A ) I want to know what you think of it on a general scale and B ) I'm running with what sort of model base I have available to me.

Also, I'm very much a Skryre rat, so I like to keep as many Skryre themed models in the army as I think can be managed without bulking it up terribly. (Relatively naked Warlock Engineer is still really good for plinking off Warp Lightning)

Let me know what you think.
Edited by Gazz't Rootgnasher, 6th December 2011 - 07:42 PM.
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Mathusala0
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The Evil Underlord

Lords

Ikit Claw 395

since its a little bit themed fine

Queek Headtaker (Gen) 215

Drop him and buy a normal warlord, you can gear one for less points to be more effective than queek, especially since your not using his SV.

Heroes

Warlock Engineer 95
Level 1 Wiz
Doomrocket

Drop the wizard level.

Warlock Engineer 85
Level 1 Wiz
Warp Condenser

Make this guy level 2

Warlock Engineer 65
Level 1 Wiz

drop the wizard level

Chieftain 70
BSB

fine

Core

25 Clanrats 202.5
FC
WFT
Shields

this should be the bunker

2 x 25 Clanrats 197.5
FC
PWM
Shields

these should merge, give the 2nd wind mortar to the stormvermin

30 Stormvermin 260
FC
Banner of the Under-Empire

all good

2 x 50 Slaves 102
Musician

good

3 x 5 Giant Rats, 1 Packmaster 23

good

Special

5 x Jezzails 100

big points sink for little gain, you have plenty of ranged shooting, invest these points in gutter runners or some other unit.

Rare

2 x Warp Lightning Cannon 90

Doomwheel 150

all your rares are fine.
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Gazz't Rootgnasher
Clanrat
All right, Mathusala, couple of questions.

If I'm merging the two units of Clanrats, should I just make it one unit of 50 or alter it around a bit? If at all possible I'd be looking to maybe add in a fourth weapon team to get some more punch going.

As for Queek, if I hedge a few points elsewhere (example: take out the jezzails for 90 points of poisoned sling GR's) is it worth it to run the upgraded stormvermin? I'm rather fond of the idea of using them but I'd dropped the upgrade to get more bodies on the table.

If I'm taking the wizard level off the Warlock without any gear, what would you recommend I use him for, or should I just take it out of the army? I already have three models and wanted to find an effective way to field all three with Ikit. My first thought was to carry a scroll.

I'm happy that the alterations to the overall list were relatively minor, it means I'm at least doing something right with the way I want this to get set up. Also, bearing in mind the changes you made, what do you suppose the overall competitive effectiveness of it is compared to the fluffy value?
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Mathusala0
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The Evil Underlord

Quote:
 
If I'm merging the two units of Clanrats, should I just make it one unit of 50 or alter it around a bit? If at all possible I'd be looking to maybe add in a fourth weapon team to get some more punch going.


one unit of fifty, you have more than enough punch in this army ranged wise, units of 25 rats however, are free points your giving your opponent should he ever get into contact with them (which happens ;) )

Quote:
 
As for Queek, if I hedge a few points elsewhere (example: take out the jezzails for 90 points of poisoned sling GR's) is it worth it to run the upgraded stormvermin? I'm rather fond of the idea of using them but I'd dropped the upgrade to get more bodies on the table.


Maybe if instead of gutter runners you did queek vermin, but then you have no way to deal with enemy shooting. and i can already tell who wins the gunline shootout between us and empire/dwarves

Quote:
 
If I'm taking the wizard level off the Warlock without any gear, what would you recommend I use him for, or should I just take it out of the army? I already have three models and wanted to find an effective way to field all three with Ikit. My first thought was to carry a scroll.


sorry, I actually was thinking of saying that and then i got an interview call and got way distracted and was just bleh. So yeah, drop the level from the doom rocket, keep the condenser wizard at level 1. give the third a dispell scroll.

Quote:
 
I'm happy that the alterations to the overall list were relatively minor, it means I'm at least doing something right with the way I want this to get set up. Also, bearing in mind the changes you made, what do you suppose the overall competitive effectiveness of it is compared to the fluffy value?


or maybe Im being less cruel because you specifically said you didn't want it to be over competitive ;)

To be fair this list isnt that bad, you don't have many hammer units (1 kinda and only if you make them queekvermin) so your relying on your heavy artillery and magic to win the day (and personally I think plague magic is better for damage output) its not going to be a min/max list by far, because it lacks hammers its not quite as good as a "Standard" skaven list (I actually need to write up what the "standard" list looks like) but you should still find this list doing alright (maybe not omigod broken, and maybe not cream of the crop good, but still "good")
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Gazz't Rootgnasher
Clanrat
I've always been a proponent of fun before ferocity. If it's not over the top broken and "designed to win" in world championship level brawls, I'm okay with that. I think I'll see what I can do about hedging the numbers a little in order to get the queekvermin, and if possible, still run with the gutter runners, but if that's not possible, it's clear that the queek vermin are lower on the priority list. As for hammers, I know it's generally necessary to run a good few to be terribly competitive, but I want to see how far I can go on tactics and movement alone. At least until I can get myself a screaming bell and just have all sorts of hilarious fun.

So, just to make sure I've got my terms correct, the bunker unit is where I'll be fielding the characters I want to protect from ranged nonsense?
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Mathusala0
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The Evil Underlord

the bunker unit is where you want to have characters that you want NEVER to see combat or get shot. aka, its a bunker.

and yeah, if you can get the queekvermin and gutter runners fine, but if you cannot get queekvermin then drop queek. the only reason you ever should take him is to run his SV. otherwise a normal warlord can out-gear and under-price him easily

when you get a bell I suggest you take a look at my castle list ;)
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Gazz't Rootgnasher
Clanrat
Oh, I've been around the board, already looked at the castle list. In fact I was impressed by the idea of the castle list and made the determination that I'd run similar tactics as often as possible with the list I'm running. (albeit with some slave tarpit shooting involved)

Okay, I crunched the numbers again and I think I came up with an acceptable resolution, here's the new list setup.

Lords

Ikit Claw 395

Queek Headtaker (Gen) 215

Heroes

Warlock Engineer 45
Doomrocket

Warlock Engineer 110
Level 1 Wiz
Warp Condenser
Dispel Scroll

Chieftain 70
BSB

Core

25 Clanrats 202.5
FC
WFT
Shields

45 Clanrats 287.5
FC
PWM
Shields

30 Stormvermin 445 (queek upgrade)
FC
Banner of the Under-Empire
PWM

2 x 50 Slaves 102
Musician

3 x 5 Giant Rats, 1 Packmaster 23

Special

7 x Gutter Runners 126
Slings
Poisoned attacks

Rare

2 x Warp Lightning Cannon 90

Doomwheel 150


So, by sacrificing 5 Clanrats in the tarpitting group, I was able to get just enough points out of the army to field both the 5 Gutter Runner standard unit (for gunline harassment, I hear 5 is pretty much the set number per unit) and permitted me to run Queek's Stormvermin to provide a decent CC hammer. Dropped wizard levels, added dispel scroll, and didn't sacrifice a single rat dart, because I know how important those tend to be, especially in a list that sets up a gunline the likes of which I'd be running.

Mutation: Taking out the last Warlock Engineer gave me enough overflow points, if I calculated correctly, to put in 2 more Gutter Runners (I know the odd number is preferred for panic tests and the like) because of the overflow of points I'd had previously. If you feel like double checking the math, go ahead, but I think it's sound.

And just for some "fluff" to add to the army, I've decided the reason for fielding the two named Characters.

Ahem.


Warlord Gnawdwell was growing quite tired of the stories of Queek, victories in combat, constant destruction of enemy lines, and talk about raising him to a position of power. All of the assassins had failed. Served him right for trusting Clan Eshin to get rid of his problems for him. As he was pacing his room, worrying the tips of his whiskers with his fangs, he noticed a small scrap of hide, a notification of troop deployments he'd requested. One name stuck out immediately, the simpering second in command of Clan Skryre, Ikit Claw. Gears began to turn in his mind as he noticed the troop list his spies had gathered for him. Lots of Skryre weaponry, all of which was prone to some form of malfunction, would be sent out in great numbers. Gnawdwell began to see his opportunity fall before him. The Horned Rat was merciful today. Squealing out, he summoned one of his underlings to convey a message to Clan Skryre, and ultimately, Ikit Claw. Queek Headtaker, famed hero of Clan Mors, and his legendary Stormvermin would be sent to support the efforts of the Warlock Lord, and at a most humble and beneficent price. Grinning to himself as the messenger scurried away with his message, he signaled the assassin that he kept on hand as a bodyguard. Naturally, it wouldn't hurt to send a few Gutter Runners along, just to be sure...
Edited by Gazz't Rootgnasher, 6th December 2011 - 09:39 PM.
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Mathusala0
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The Evil Underlord

Quote:
 
Warlock Engineer 40
Dispel Scroll


cannot be done my friend, he must be a wizard to take a dispel scroll. best solution, drop the warlock and give the dispel scroll to the condenser warlock, you may not have three warlocks, but at least you'll have the scroll. (and 15 points is almost enough for 1 more gutter runner.)

Quote:
 
(for gunline harassment, I hear 5 is pretty much the set number per unit)


I actually thing 6 works best (because of double tap thats 12 shots so 2ish wounds), most people look at 7 as optimal. 9 would be for 3 wounds Mathmatikally a turn (kills a warmachine in one go)

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Gazz't Rootgnasher
Clanrat
Whoops, I totally forgot about that. xD

Okay, let me revise the list just one more time to see what I can manage.

Also, I see what you did there. Hah. :P



Any commentary on the fluff bit?
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Mathusala0
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The Evil Underlord

Space reserved for commentary on fluff and also on the next list post, I have an interview, sorry chap XD

PS, the list looks fine now, no problems for what it should do. my ride is late so I think i can squeeze this in XD
Edited by Mathusala0, 6th December 2011 - 09:46 PM.
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Gazz't Rootgnasher
Clanrat
Oh, I don't mind at all, you've been more than helpful as it stands already.

Lords

Ikit Claw 395

Queek Headtaker (Gen) 215

Heroes

Warlock Engineer 45
Doomrocket

Warlock Engineer 110
Level 1 Wiz
Warp Condenser
Dispel Scroll

Chieftain 70
BSB

Core

25 Clanrats 202.5
FC
WFT
Shields

45 Clanrats 287.5
FC
PWM
Shields

30 Stormvermin 445 (queek upgrade)
FC
Banner of the Under-Empire
PWM

2 x 50 Slaves 102
Musician

3 x 5 Giant Rats, 1 Packmaster 23

Special

7 x Gutter Runners 126
Slings
Poisoned attacks

Rare

2 x Warp Lightning Cannon 90

Doomwheel 150


Taking out the last Warlock Engineer gave me enough overflow points, if I calculated correctly, to put in 2 more Gutter Runners (I know the odd number is preferred for panic tests and the like) because of the overflow of points I'd had previously. If you feel like double checking the math, go ahead, but I think it's sound.

And just for some "fluff" to add to the army, I've decided the reason for fielding the two named Characters.

Ahem.


Warlord Gnawdwell was growing quite tired of the stories of Queek, victories in combat, constant destruction of enemy lines, and talk about raising him to a position of power. All of the assassins had failed. Served him right for trusting Clan Eshin to get rid of his problems for him. As he was pacing his room, worrying the tips of his whiskers with his fangs, he noticed a small scrap of hide, a notification of troop deployments he'd requested. One name stuck out immediately, the simpering second in command of Clan Skryre, Ikit Claw. Gears began to turn in his mind as he noticed the troop list his spies had gathered for him. Lots of Skryre weaponry, all of which was prone to some form of malfunction, would be sent out in great numbers. Gnawdwell began to see his opportunity fall before him. The Horned Rat was merciful today. Squealing out, he summoned one of his underlings to convey a message to Clan Skryre, and ultimately, Ikit Claw. Queek Headtaker, famed hero of Clan Mors, and his legendary Stormvermin would be sent to support the efforts of the Warlock Lord, and at a most humble and beneficent price. Grinning to himself as the messenger scurried away with his message, he signaled the assassin that he kept on hand as a bodyguard. Naturally, it wouldn't hurt to send a few Gutter Runners along, just to be sure...
Edited by Gazz't Rootgnasher, 6th December 2011 - 11:08 PM.
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Mathusala0
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The Evil Underlord

Lore matches up well with the list. helps keep it all in context.
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sicsempertyrannids


I think you need a Grey Seer.
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Mathusala0
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The Evil Underlord

why?

don't just through out your opinions without backing them up.
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