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| First 2,000 pt Skaven List, 40 points yet to spend | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: 19th October 2011 - 01:36 AM (554 Views) | |
| sHOE_bOX | 19th October 2011 - 01:36 AM Post #1 |
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I don't really know may of the rules yet but I thought I'd jump in and give it a go! The 2 issues I have are: - I have an underwhelming amount of magic, but the grey seer is so expensive (especially with the bell) it means I have to cut out a lot too add him in. Do I really need him? - The monks are the only really killy unit, will they be able to deal a good amount of damage and am putting to many rotten eggs into one diseased basket? C&C welcome, and what best to do with the last 40 points would be great (thinking another dispel scroll or upgrading the plague priest to lvl 2...) LORD Warlord – 96 - Halberd, Shield Heroes Plague Priest – 279 - Flail, Dispel Scroll, Plague Furnace Warlock Engineer - 110 - Lvl 1 Wizard, Warp- Energy Condenser, Dispel Scroll Chieftainn- 70 - Battle Standard Core 30 Clan Rats - 152 - Shields, Musician, Standard Bearer 30 Clan Rats - 152 - Shields, Musician, Standard Bearer 30 Clan Rats - 152 - Shields, Musician, Standard Bearer 30 Clan Rats - 152 - Shields, Musician, Standard Bearer 41 Skavenslaves – 82 40 Skavenslaves - 80 Special 30 Placgue Monks - 255 - Musician, Standard Bearer with Plague Banner 5 Jezzails - 100 5 Jezzails – 100 Rare Warp Lightning Cannon - 90 Warp Lightning Cannon – 90 1,960 |
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| Koroviev | 19th October 2011 - 02:19 AM Post #2 |
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Clanrat
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You can't take 2 dispel scrolls. Magic items are unique (you can only take 1 of each unless otherwise described). Plague monks with a furnace can do damage to all kinds of foes but that is one expensive hammer (and the only one in your army). Jezzails are kind of unfantastic. I'd rather have a doomwheel and rat darts or some extra item points. Consider throwing a doomrocket on your engineer. I'd level him to 2 if you can make the points. That extra spell isn't costing you much and could be something extremely useful situationally. Make some points to gear out your warlord if you want one. Taking a halberd and a shield is a waste of points. He's your general and a naked warlord would die to focused attacks by slaves in prolonged close combat. I would also adjust your clanrat groups to have one larger unit than 30 to dump that warlord in. |
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| Borgomos | 19th October 2011 - 09:10 AM Post #3 |
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Warlord
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Four groups of Clanrats seem a bit much at this point level. I recommend you drop one clanrat group, and bump the other clanrat groups to 40. Our warlords are good, but they are not great. They are not Chaos Lords with 3+ ward saves totting Str7 Killing blow attacks while flying around with 20# movement discs. Our Grey Seers not only provide us with the magic defense against things that wreck our batteline (them mega-spells), but he also has access to a fair number of spells, Dread 13 being one of them. I believe he is an overall better caster compared to how good a warlord is, as a combat character. He can also do a lot of stuff with minimal gear(which is good because he is expensive) Good part of the Warlord is that he is dirt cheap so they are both field-able at the same time. Drop the Jezzails, the illegal extra dispel scroll. With the clanrat suggestion i made above, that should get you points for a seer. You already have two cannons who not only do what jezzails do, but do it better. |
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| sHOE_bOX | 19th October 2011 - 11:30 AM Post #4 |
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Ok, if I drop the Jezzels and the dispel scroll I have enough points for another unit of 30 Plague Monks, is that a good idea? It means I have another killy unit. I'll also take 3 forty rat units of clan rats. I've read up on the rules about 6-7 months ago and found that the Skaven magic was rather sub- par. Is it really wise to sink 240 points into something that isn't all that great...? However, I think putting him on a Screaming Bell is an awesome idea, especially for the 18" general field because be counts as a large target (that is right isn't it...?) and the ward save. The Warlord is more there for the leadership bonus than anything, I'd be just putting him at the back. What's the best way to equip him? |
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| cisse | 19th October 2011 - 01:27 PM Post #5 |
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Skaven magic sub-par? Hardly. Ok so you don't have the new uber-spells like Dwellers Below and Mind Razor, but Dreaded Thirteen, Death Frenzy, Plague and Wither are nothing to scoff at. Add to that the fact that the Grey Seer also aids with magic defence, and has a couple of free warp tokens, plus his high LD (remember most races have to give up a point of LD if they want a lord-level caster instead of a normal Lord character)... I see little reason not to take a Grey Seer instead of a Warlord if you have to chose between the two. As for the rest of your list, suggestions above are good: I'd takeonly three clanrat units, two 40 strong and one bunker for the Seer and BSB to hide in, 30 strong is enough for that unit. Add some more plague monks as well, 35 is a minimum I think. Also, the list lacks some hitting power. I take it you're not a fan of the HPA? It's also a lot of points and I wouldn't know what to drop to get it... But perhaps a Doomwheel instead of those jezzails. Hits hard and canbe had to destroy. |
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| Borgomos | 19th October 2011 - 01:47 PM Post #6 |
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Warlord
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Skaven Magic is far from sub-par. I would say it's better than most book lores with the exception of probably Life and Shadow. Remember that you can roll from both spell disciplines, unlike other casters out there who simply have to choose one and roll with it. The lores are very versatile, allowing us to deal with expensive infantry(Dread13), massed weaklings(Plague + Cloud+Scorch), High toughness targets(Bless with Filth, Wither) , Low model harassers (Warp Lightning), Enemy shooting(howling), Low initiative models(Cracks)..... The only sub-par aspect of Skaven magic is that we have no "Higher cast value = better effect" aspect of the newer lores, and that we have no Lore attribute. A quick look in most tournament lists will show that almost everyone brings their Grey Seer to bear. |
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| Mathusala0 | 19th October 2011 - 06:19 PM Post #7 |
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The Evil Underlord
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even if you think skaven magic is subpar you are actually suggesting that all other magic is supreme meaning youll want a level 4 caster for magic defense if nothing else and fyi, dread 13th is one of the spells that is nerfed in most GTs now for good reason. along with dwellers, infernal gateway, and one other i cant remember. |
![]() The Glossary of Common Underempire Lingo The Skaven Guide to competitive list building (8th Edition) The Skaven Castle Formation | |
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| Borgomos | 19th October 2011 - 07:34 PM Post #8 |
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Warlord
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Purple Sun is comped a lot in tourneys around, perhaps thats the last spell you were mentioning ? |
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| Mathusala0 | 19th October 2011 - 07:41 PM Post #9 |
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The Evil Underlord
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nah its not accurate and allows lookout sirs. dweelers does not, thirteenth does not, infernal gateway (str 11 or 12) do not. its some other spell that drops characters in one hit and allows no saves of any kind and not lookout sir rolls. |
![]() The Glossary of Common Underempire Lingo The Skaven Guide to competitive list building (8th Edition) The Skaven Castle Formation | |
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| Borgomos | 19th October 2011 - 08:39 PM Post #10 |
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Warlord
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Last spell in Metal Lore, Final Transmutation does that. Allows no saves at all, and no LoS either |
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| Mathusala0 | 19th October 2011 - 08:48 PM Post #11 |
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The Evil Underlord
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thats the one, final transmutation |
![]() The Glossary of Common Underempire Lingo The Skaven Guide to competitive list building (8th Edition) The Skaven Castle Formation | |
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| avenger649 | 19th October 2011 - 08:52 PM Post #12 |
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My blade shall cause your death
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Indeed our magic is hardly broken compared to the ones in the main rule book which are very overpowered. |
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I have awoken, so have my pets. My blades will be upon you soon. Then you will be bathed in warp-fire. *Laughs evilly* | |
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| sHOE_bOX | 20th October 2011 - 09:09 PM Post #13 |
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Ok, I've re-written the list with all your tips in mind, and thanks for them all! More magic, more plague. Dreaded 13th, a unit of plague with the furnace and one with the banner means I've got 3 hammers. Are they hard hitting enough to do a proper job? Clan rat units are in odd numbers, but I needed to cut some to get points. Putting a Grey Seer on a Screaming Bells seems really good on paper, is it in reality? I'd most likely take on at higher points. I've seen people talk about the HPA being good, I'm not sure what to make of it. Has some really good rules but its random compulsory movement puts me off. LORD Grey Seer - 285 - Talisman of Preservation Heroes Plague Priest – 314 - Lvl 2 Wizard, Flail, Dispel Scroll, Plague Furnace Chieftainn- 70 - Battle Standard Core 40 Clan Rats - 188 - Shields, Musician, Standard Bearer 36 Clan Rats - 172 - Shields, Musician, Standard Bearer 30 Clan Rats - 148 - Shields, Musician, Standard Bearer 41 Skavenslaves – 82 40 Skavenslaves - 80 Special 30 Placgue Monks - 255 - Musician, Standard Bearer with Plague Banner 30 Placgue Monks - 225 - Musician, Standard Bearer, Ironclad Icon Rare Warp Lightning Cannon - 90 Warp Lightning Cannon – 90 1,999 |
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| Borgomos | 20th October 2011 - 09:38 PM Post #14 |
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Warlord
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Ironcurse Icon cannot be taken by Plague Monks. Give it to your Battle Standard Bearer instead. Seer on Bell is indeed quite good, but the list has to be build around it, and is more feasible at 2500 points. It's a funny fact that random movement is one reason HPA is good. The opponent cannot guess how much it will move, and therefore can make mistakes and don't rush his units forward. Which is good since we can shoot'em. The compulsory movement rules also state that at the start of the HPA/Doomwheel's movement, you have a free pivot before you make that move. That means it's very very hard to outmanouver. You can turn 180 degrees around and charge your flank. Random movement also means that if the HPA hits a unit it counts as a charge, but because it's a compulsory move, your opponent cannot give charge reactions. So they can't flee or stand & shoot. Other than that i would rather have 2 clanrat groups instead of those 3, keep'em at size 45. Use the leftover rats to boost up the slaves or buy your seer an Earthening Rod or Skalm, both good items to increase his survival. List looks good. Keep us informed of your exploits |
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| Koroviev | 20th October 2011 - 09:47 PM Post #15 |
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Clanrat
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Hate to mess with your list more, but I just don't think 2 plague monk units is worthwhile. Plague monks are weak against opponents with solid armor saves/high toughness, and one of the units isn't getting a plague banner (so you can't double your sixes in a bad match-up either). You mentioned the HPA. One of those instead of the 2nd plague monk unit would give you a more versatile offense. Seer on a bell is good if you can protect it. You do lose some mobility on the seer by going with the bell though. Edited by Koroviev, 20th October 2011 - 09:48 PM.
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