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Fun 2500 pt PlagueMonk List; Plague Monk Army List
Topic Started: 17th October 2011 - 08:46 PM (786 Views)
jpd
Plague Decon
This is a fun list, and I love PM's as you can gather. I've only fielded it twice against empire and un-dead won both games, can't see it doing overly well against high toughness armies chaos warriors, or dwarfs but I'm sure it will be interesting.

Tactics are simple March, March and Charge or march and charge if your opponent comes out to meet you ;) the catapults deployed either end of the table and target the biggest unit with armour they can see, when possible they both target the same unit.

Lord
Lord Skrolak 470 pts

Hero
Plague Priest fail, plague furnace 254pts
Plague Priest, fail, talisman of protection, 149 pts

Core
40 Plague Monks Full command, 305 pts
40 Plague Monks Full command, 305 pts
40 Plague Monks Full command, Plague Banner 335 pts

Special
10 Plague Censor Bearers
10 Plague Censor Bearers
10 Plague Censor Bearers

Rare
plague catapult 100 pts
plague catapult 100 pts
jpd
17th October 2011 - 08:46 PM
This is a fun list, and I love PM's as you can gather. I've only fielded it twice against empire and un-dead won both games, can't see it doing overly well against high toughness armies chaos warriors, or dwarfs but I'm sure it will be interesting.

Tactics are simple March, March and Charge or march and charge if your opponent comes out to meet you ;) the catapults deployed either end of the table and target the biggest unit with armour they can see, when possible they both target the same unit.

Lord
Lord Skrolak 470 pts

Hero
Plague Priest fail, plague furnace 254pts
Plague Priest, fail, talisman of protection, 149 pts

Core
40 Plague Monks Full command, 305 pts
40 Plague Monks Full command, 305 pts
40 Plague Monks Full command, Plague Banner 335 pts

Special
10 Plague Censor Bearers
10 Plague Censor Bearers
10 Plague Censor Bearers

Rare
plague catapult 100 pts
plague catapult 100 pts

I know not enough models for a lot of you but it is hard hitting and lots of attacks which makes up for the lack of models in my opinion
Edited by jpd, 17th October 2011 - 08:48 PM.
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Mathusala0
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The Evil Underlord

how does it hit hard? every model in the army has S3, WS3 and Init3, they have a lot of attacks true but they are missing 50% and only wounding 50% so only 1/4 attacks actually wounds. and thats suggesting all your opponents are toughness 3. (many of which wont be.) also doesnt count in the armor.

censors, while fun, are only init 3, strength 5 doesnt matter when your striking after everyone else.

the furnace is good of course, but thats one good unit out of 3, (censors are not "units" in my opinion) you also have no armor so the magical and range beat-down can commence.

so yes, it will be fun, but by no means will it hit hard except against empire, maybe elves, and bretonnia, (but betonnia sucks anyway)
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Sketch
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scratchings and squeakings

Eh... Aren't Plague Monks a special choice...? :huh:

Apart from that I suppose it would be fun to play. I generally prefer to go in for more subtle tactics and ploys mysel' but I suppose it would be fun to have a game where it's just a matter of; "FORWARD!!!"
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jpd
Plague Decon
@ sketch
yes pm are a special choice but become core when you have skrolak in your army.

@ Mathusala0
Hard hitting I was referring to the PCBs, and the PF and yes I agree and did say it would be tough against high toughness armies with chaos warriors and knights, and dwarfs which I haven't fielded this army against yet. Having frenzy also helps a lot against undead too as it negates the fear factor until they lose a round of combat. PCBs generally put the frightners on cavalry units as there's always the chance a few knights will loose their toughness test. Personally I like PCB sometimes they don't work terribly well but when you field them in units of 10 they nearly always do enough damage to pay for themselfs.
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Clanrat
WS3 is going to be 4+ to hit all the way up to WS5, I don't think that's too hard an issue. Wounding yes 50%, but did you see that he has 40 PM's in each group? Even if they got shot up reduced to 20, that's still 15 attacks wounding. Even with 4+ armor, it's 7.5 deaths on the enemy's part.

I'd take more PCBs per unit because they will get shot at (and probably lose a few on the way up there), but I never considered them for a long while until I thoroughly examined them. Since I assume you know the rules, I'll lay them out again in terms of mathhammer.

Against T4 models with 4+ armor, you'll kill 2.33 before combat even begins. The enemy attacks, we'll kill off 5 monks with 5 left. Then the PCBs inflict 4.25 wounds, the enemy will save .7 of those on average. That would be 5.88 dead enemies, more than the PCBs (and only 5 left to hit is a bit generous I'm sure). You use these guys against the enemy's heavy-hitting, 10/20-model only units, and they will help kill them quickly. In this case, the opponent just lost half of his oober unit. I believe they're meant to be thrown at knights and special/elite units as they're being held up by Slaves or Clanrats (or other Plague Monks).

If there were even 20 PMs left to attack that same enemy, assuming 5 wide they'll lop another 20 attacks on top of that for 1.67 kills. Rounded, a total of 8 inflicted casualties on the enemy. In the units the PCBs are designed to target, that's going to be close to half of the models there. If said models cost upwards of 15-20 points each, that's quite a bit of points made back.
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Mathusala0
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The Evil Underlord

20 plague monks.

in horde 40 attacks.

20 hits. 10 wounds not 15.

in 5 by 4.

20 attacks, 10 hits 5 wounds.



PCBs may do more wounds than your opponent, but they also cost a bucketload to play. most of the stuff they kill is cheaper than them (other than knights which are rare at best) and they are only strength 5 for one round of combat. and the enemy attacks with WHAT S?!

you also forget that before combat even begins you will kill off 1/3 of your own monks. so out of 10 censors (suggesting they all miraculously make it into combat) is reduced to 6 or 7 right away.

5 censors, 15 attacks, 7.5 hits followed by 4 more hits (hatred is cool) 11.5 hits total, against T4 thats 8ish wounds (so better than what you predicted)

however then the steadfast unit holds and the now S3 with no hatred monks get run down.

Quote:
 
10/20-model only units


O_O who in this edition plays with 20 man units? besides dark elf blackguard.

an uber unit would be the 40 man graveguard, and highelf special choice with world dragon banner, steam tanks, ironguts, assorted dark elf units, assorted chaos units.

and against brettonia sure they will wreck face, but empire rarely fields knights these days, chaos knights will murder plague censors, as will high elf knights (i actually saw those used once) and cold one knights.

Quote:
 
The enemy attacks, we'll kill off 5 monks with 5 left. Then the PCBs inflict 4.25 wounds, the enemy will save .7 of those on average. That would be 5.88 dead enemies
wait what? you inflicted 4.25 wounds so 5.88 die?!?! the enemy will save 1/6 with a 4+ armor or more likely (chaos) will save 1/3 on armor followed by PARRY SAVES. 1/3 again. so against chaos youll do maybe 1 wound (if you even get to strike) but against saurus and ogres, youll fair a little better.

learn to math hammer.
Edited by Mathusala0, 19th October 2011 - 06:00 PM.
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jpd
Plague Decon
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19th October 2011 - 02:00 PM
I'd take more PCBs per unit because they will get shot at (and probably lose a few on the way up there), but I never considered them for a long while until I thoroughly examined them.
2 units of 15? never thought of that

The two times I played this list I kept the formation very symmetric

10 PCB10 PCB10 PCB
Unit 1

Plague Furnace
Unit 2

Including Skrolak
Unit 3

Including PP and Plague banner
Plague Claw CatapultPlague Claw CatapultUnit 1




but I suppose this formation could do better and provide more room to manoeuvre



15 Plague Censor Bearers15 Plague Censor Bearers
Unit 1

Plague Furnace
Unit 2

Skrolak
Unit 3

PP Plague Banner
Plague Claw CatapultPlague Claw Catapult


Might try that, and this list brings me back to my chaos days where I fielded lots of warriors with 2 hand weapons and MoK as well as a unit of chosen, Lord, BSB and a champ on chariots except with this list I don't get any armour saves....... on the flip side there are more attacks :)

I know this isn't going to be everyone's cup of tea but I like it ;) and think PCBs and PMs are under rated. But I do worry that I'm a little addicted to them as nearly every list I have made has at least one unit of them with the Plague banner.
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Mathusala0
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The Evil Underlord

pms are fine as a supporting unit, and this forum highly recommends them.

PCB are not however
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Borgomos
Warlord
It's not that the Censer Bearers are bad,I like them quite a lot, and sometimes want to put them in my fluff lists. The problem is that the right situations that they are useful in are so, so niche.

- They have to have higher initiative then the opposition, because step up rule will see them dead. A lot of armies out there have 4+ initiative on their troops.
- They are very, very,very likely to be blown up my magic. Granted thanks to Frenzy they don't panic
- They come out from our special choices where they compete with PM's and Gutter Runners. Out of the skirmishers we have, Gutter runners have more deployment flexibility, and they fill a crucial role in the form of warmachine hunting.
- Occasional dice will see them gas themselves to oblivion.
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Graypaw


Mathusala0
19th October 2011 - 06:00 PM
20 plague monks.

in horde 40 attacks.


dont plage monks each have 3 attack since they have two hand weapons?
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Graypaw
20th October 2011 - 11:39 AM
Mathusala0
19th October 2011 - 06:00 PM
20 plague monks.

in horde 40 attacks.


dont plage monks each have 3 attack since they have two hand weapons?
A common overlook here is that you only get one attack from the ranks after the first unless you are Monstrous and then you get 3. This is called support attacks or something like that (haven't got my rulebook on me so I forgot the term). This means that it is 20 Monks, you get 30 (+1 for champion) from the front rank and 10 from the one/two rank(s) behind.
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Rusty Tincanne
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...you can still call me Rusty Tincanne if you want, though.

I don't believe this list is about mathhammer anyhow. It is a highly themed list, and those are not meant to always win, but rather for fun play. (Hopefully for both players.)

Having played the BCoN exclusively, I can say that, historically, taking all monks and PCBs was great fun and could be competetive - even against high T armies like dwarves. And PCBs rock, but never when hitting alone, and you should realize that, with frenzy, they will get baited and be on their own a lot. :( You can also try and get them to get into contact with warmachine crews and archers.

The way I see the Monks working is to offer a block of infantry that will win through combat resolution and keep Frenzy. The Priests are there withthe flail to offer the actual killing hits in teh first round of combat. After that first round of combat you just hope they hold on long enough for the PCB's to get in the flank. It is a tricky and imprecise strategy (due to frenzy), but can work.

As for the PCB's, I would actually drop them to units of 8 and use the points to buy rat darts to redirect the enemy a bit to both protect your flanks and to set up the enemy occasionally. Units of 8 were all I ever needed in the 6th edition, and will likely be enough in this list because the bigger target is the furnace anyhow. Now many folks will shoot at the PCBs with that monster on the field.

As for bigger changes, I would drop Skrolk and buy a chieftain/BSB with the stormbanner adn then a LOT of slaves and clanrats to make teh percentages right. But that would mean dropping either PCBs or monks, and that would be an entirely different list then... So forget I mentioned it. :P
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Borgomos
Warlord
Skrolks not so bad either, he can definitely hit had enough to keep that combat resolution up.

I think his only downsides are his absurd cost and the fact that if he ends up base-to-base contact with and kitted-out combat character a la a Tzeentch Chaos Lord or something like that his lack of saves will be a liability.
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avenger649
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20th October 2011 - 04:33 PM
I don't believe this list is about mathhammer anyhow. It is a highly themed list, and those are not meant to always win, but rather for fun play. (Hopefully for both players.)

I believe the statement was about a previous statement which was incorrect.
I do think it is a themed list and should be incredibly fun to play against most opponents who are not too serious.
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Mathusala0
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The Evil Underlord

it will be fun to play of course, im simply trying to point out its weaknesses and what to look out for. i didnt know the op had those in it already (i just sah the list XD )

and then writing fighter joined in <_<
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