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Applying 8th edition rules?
Topic Started: 16th October 2011 - 12:46 AM (877 Views)
Rusty Tincanne
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...you can still call me Rusty Tincanne if you want, though.

Haven't tried it yet, but I was thinking about trying a few one-off Mordheim games using the new 8th edition rules for movement (charging specifically) and combat (attack order based on initiative). Of folks that have played both, how do you think this would affect the game of Mordheim? For better or worse - and why?

Also, how do you think the winds of magic rules could be best applied to Mordheim? If at all...

Are there any other changed/altered rules (from the 8th ed) that I should think about incorporating?


Basically, I think that the new rules are an improvement over the older WFB editions, and hope they might improve Mordheim a bit. And I thin playing a 6th edition-based game will keep me from ever getting the 8th edition rules down. ;)
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Solegga
Warlord
Imo GWs' new books (and rules) intentionally go against ETC and other rule-pack rules. It is both stupid and provocative since it only creates confusion and frustration among the communities. <_<
I don't know about the winds of magic, yeah, I bought myself a Chimera (well, actually a friend of mine asked me what I wanted for my birthday, had no idea so I asked him for that) but all in all it was unsuccessful. They are trying to sell more than they care for the gaming or/and modelling aspect of the game. :angry:

My advice? Talk it out with your friends, come to a mutual understanding, *I swear too much* GW and things that get in your life's' way and have a good time B)
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Skaven Lord Vinshqueek
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Bunny ear says flop

*hides the awfully sharp blades*... I'm sorry, improve Mordheim with 8th edition Fantasy? Are you feeling ill, my pestilent fellow-Council member? :blink:

With your favour lying at the area of movement (charging) and combat (attack order), I am quite interested to hear where your problems lie with those rules. I have read through those sections for both systems now, and I am trying to puzzle through what it is that is a problem for you. With the intercepting of charges and the chargee (sp?) striking first, I think Mordheim captured a more realistic style of combat within its mechanics then the latest Fantasy mechanics do. Obviously, you think differently and that is fine, but I think you'd make a clearer point if you'd say where your issues with the current Mordheim rules (on the points you mention) are and how you think 8th edition Fantasy rules will improve them.

As for the Winds of Magic, I am unsure whether it would work. Mordheim is set as a game of individual models, where the hide and seek of guerilla takes a much bigger place then the all-out brawls of a Fantasy battlefield pitched fight. Implementing the Winds of Magic mean you'd give members more spells to cast, meaning it will have a bigger impact on the game, which in my opinion is something that Mordheim isn't about.

Greetz
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mrtn
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Swashbuckler
@Solegga: You must be in the wrong thread? :huh:

@Nurglitch: I think that the random charges is cool and something I'd very much would want to try in Mordheim if I can convince my friends about it. The initiative fighting on the other hand I don't think would work at all, since you don't have units in Mordheim, and thus you can't "step up" to strike after the first rank have been killed. However I don't think that the M+2D6 is right for Mordheim, it's probably too random. I'd try M+1D6 (and have models with a movement value greater than 6 or something get a version of Swiftstride, ie they'd roll 2D6 and pick the highest).
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Rusty Tincanne
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...you can still call me Rusty Tincanne if you want, though.

@ Vinz: Over all, I believe the rules of Mordheim are fantastic. I stated earlier that I think the new movement and attacking order is an improvement for WFB. That said, I have thought that there are some shortcomings in the rules for the City of the Damned and am hoping some the new WFB rules may improve my favorite skirmish game as well. (The rules overhaul that Morgoth linked to went WAY too far in my opinion.)

f course my biggest complaint for Mordheim is that it is a D6-based game and not everything has a chance of success or failure based on D6 odds. I also have that complaint in WFB, but without creating all new rules based on DnD dice, I don't see that changing. As for game mechanics that I have seen a flaw in is the charging. (Skaven already have a HUGE advantage maneuvering with their movement of 5 because so many objectives are speed-dependent.) I think that charging could be fixed per Mrtn's suggestion, though I think that MA+D6 is too random - too much chance of failure. I actually like the idea of everyone getting swift stride. Also, this change could well represent running headlong through a city full of debris/rubble.

In regards to combat, I see Mrtn's point. If you are playing a game with a race that has an abysmal initiative, there would be little incentive to charge if you know you will be dead before you can strike.

I also see Vinz's point with the Winds of Magic. Mordheim magic plays out so differently than WFB that it probably would not work. Still, I cannot help but want to tinker with it somehow. But my purpose is to create a situation where the rules are closer, and creating some mix here would defeat that I fear.
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breenii
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SKAVEN SURVIVOR
Erm skaven are faster.. I think the movement is balanced, blunderbuss anyone? Heheheh , charging is balanced to. Idk man...
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Skavendrool
Chieftain
"I think that the new rules are an improvement over the older WFB editions"

In general I prefer 6th edition myself, but this is not the place for that discussion.

I think that the 8th edition-style charges would actually make more sense in the Mordheim context of individual models, than in the WHFB context of entire units. They will substantially favor humans and (esp) stunties, and reduce the advantage of the M5 & M6 models (us and elfies).

I definitely would not use the 8th edition Winds of Magic, however. As I recall in Mordheim, you are seldom going to be burning more than about two power dice on a spell, so unless you want to randomly generate power & dispel dice by rolling two-sided dice ... Also, I think that the 8th Winds of Magic system works in 8th edition WHFB because of the high/very high casting costs of some spells, and the very destructive nature of the same. Mordheim spells were costed under the 6th edition Winds of Magic rules and I think probably work better that way.

The strike in initiative order MIGHT work in Mordheim, if you gave a bonus to the charger of +1 or +2 Init. That way, the charger would still generally strike first, unless there was a gross disparity in initiatives (zombies vs. elves).

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Flem
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A blood curling cough a day, keeps the assassins away

Actually i believe a winds of magic system could work, but then only with D3 power dice. in general you use 2 dice for a spell so if you roll one dice you could be screwed, if you 3 well then meh you'll use 2. That means a dice is lost , but i believe it adds that one part off the fluff where magic would be random in Mordheim. The city after all got hit by a warpstone comet so the fluctuations of the winds should be rather random , perhaps even dangerous.... adding a tzeentch curse tabel (Warhammer fantasy roleplay, doubles on casting rolls) with a result for every double for instance.

In Mordheim their are ways enough to cancel a strike first charge, like a simpel spear for instance. So i wouldn't change that also as already said there is no stepup so the lower I races would get their asses wooped. You'd barely see any skeleton or Zombie charge, and well since they have no shooting they kind of have to if they want to do some damage.

As far as movement is concernd i wouldn't do that, perhaps add difficult terrain from the 40K rules but not the fanatsy charges. Movement is an important part of Mordheim and making a random factor out of it could change the entire game drasticlly.

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mrtn
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Swashbuckler
Flem
15th January 2012 - 01:13 PM
Actually i believe a winds of magic system could work, but then only with D3 power dice. in general you use 2 dice for a spell so if you roll one dice you could be screwed, if you 3 well then meh you'll use 2. That means a dice is lost , but i believe it adds that one part off the fluff where magic would be random in Mordheim. The city after all got hit by a warpstone comet so the fluctuations of the winds should be rather random , perhaps even dangerous.... adding a tzeentch curse tabel (Warhammer fantasy roleplay, doubles on casting rolls) with a result for every double for instance.
It's not unusual that a sorcerer is stuck with only one spell, and if that spell has a 10+ difficulty it is very random already. Making it an autofail 1/3 of the time would make sorcery even worse than it is, and I've never had an overpowered sorcerer.
Eight Chicky Bits, is that a Chicky Byte?
Warhammer Fantasy Mod 2.5 for Civilization III Conquests
My Southland Beastmen and Mortals
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Living by Stockholm Rude Time (GMT +1)
Make your own Chaos Warrior
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