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2000 Points with 2 Grey Seers & 2 HPAs; What do you think?
Topic Started: 13th October 2011 - 02:18 PM (456 Views)
skarsnik
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Clanrat
Last weekend my friends (that also got back into the hobby) and I finally had some days full of warhammer matches to get back into it. So now I'm working my armylists back and forth and I came to the Idea of the following 2000 points army:

grey seer 240

greyseer 240

Chiefetain 72
BSB
shield

Warlock Engeneer 20
Ironcurse Icon

86 clanrats 512 (but can be altered, just need 500pts core)
spears
shields
musican
standard

53 plague monks 416
musican
standard bearer
plague banner

HPA 250
spikes

HPA 250
spikes

I wouldn't considere myself to be a experienced player or anything like that and I'm aware that this is proparbly not the best list in the world but what I thought was that bringing two level 4 wizzards to a 2000points game could be a grate advantage especially with two times the 13th spell. To afford the 2nd seer I had to drop the protection of the first but therefore obviously got two of them. The Chieftain and the Engeneer would go into the clanrats and the greyseers would be on their own (please correct me if I tell rubbish), hidden behinde the big center units. Both flanks protected by the Abominations. The Unit of clanrats is btw open for debate (as everything on this list, thats why I posted it here), I'm quiet unsure about them, maybe I split it into two units or completely dump them vor slaves as the coreunits duty in this list is mainly to cover the grey seers which then, assisted by plague monks and Hellpits, beat the **** out of the fows.

Please tell me your recommendations and opinions even if it's just: "Boy u sniffed sniffed too much warpstone."
Edited by skarsnik, 13th October 2011 - 02:21 PM.
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Mathusala0
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The Evil Underlord

boy you sniffed sniffed to much warpstone.

2 grey sears wont both have enough dice to caste the 13th spell. realistically you HAVE to cast it on 6 dice. unless you bring a power scroll (which you cant)

2 hell pits is fine, but drop a grey sear and get more core, you need 200 models your looking at barely 140
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Koroviev
Clanrat
Two grey seers just isn't worth it at 2000 points. Both are going to be naked and the only way you get 2 Dread 13th attempts in a round is by using warpstone or rolling extremely high on the winds of magic. Beyond getting the dice to even try it, you need to roll 25s which is average at 6 dice. You raise your chances of having good magic phases by bringing cheap spellcasters and powerful items more than by having an extra level 4. No ward saves on your seers means they might take some warpstone damage too, which is actually dangerous without a ward save or skalm, and you're likely to miscast if you're casting for the Dread 13th every round. That's more wounds to your seers.

Your seers are probably actually more likely to die than live per battle due to self-inflicted wounds alone.

You want your general seer in a unit (clanrats), at least to start, and you don't want that unit entering combat. If your enemy has any shooting/missile magic and can get to the high ground, your grey seers are going to be dead quickly without any protection.

I don't know what races you're playing, but there are a lot of ways to deal with the 13th. It should really be a combat ender, rather than your only weapon.

I can't tell exactly how you're splitting up your units. You don't need or want an 86 clanrat unit. You want a good number of slaves. You can't cast the 13th into a combat that doesn't involve slaves, so your 13th-centric strategy is really going to fall short when your opponent rushes you.

You also don't need 53 monks in one unit. That seems excessive unless you're expecting 23 deaths before they reach their target. I prefer one horde of 35 to 40 monks when I field them.

Are these all the models you have, or do you have more things that we could help you mix in? And what're you fighting against?
Edited by Koroviev, 15th October 2011 - 01:55 AM.
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ratboy1018
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Lab rat hard at work
You might not get the 13th off 2 times, but you will be able to cast it from 2 different locations. In addition, you will have a great compliment of ruin and plague spells.

Your units need to be adjusted a bit in my opinion. 40 monks maybe with full command and plague banner. 2 units of 40 clanrats. Maybe 1 unit of clanrats and the remainder in a couple of units of slaves if you have the models.
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skarsnik
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Clanrat
First of all, it's not about the models, this was just an idea I had and as ratboy1018 said, I'd have two positions to cast from plus have a high chance of getting a some useful spells. What I thought was (of course I need to get lucky to do so) I may destroy the other player's bunker unit in one or at least two rounds by casting the dread 13th. the remaining units should be a piece of cake or if the bunker unit survifes the 13th.s it has to deal with the plague monks in hordformation. The way I see it: If you use this armylist you have a very big advantage if you are allowed to have the first turn also you need to have some luck with the power dice and the casting rolls itself. If this works out the game is almost a easy win if it ain't... well fellow rats, run fast and wide and better luck next time =).
Edited by skarsnik, 16th October 2011 - 12:18 AM.
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Mathusala0
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The Evil Underlord

Quote:
 
if you are allowed to have the first turn also you need to have some luck with the power dice and the casting rolls itself. If this works out the game is almost a easy win


Personally I like lists that dont really on a degree of luck to win, your not going to kill a bunker unit. even if by some merciless you got the thirteenth off TWICE you would only kill 28 guys on average. intelligent players house bunker units of far larger sizes, your also hoping you dont miscaste and put your greyseers in holes, your also hoping that if the first one miscastes that you dont lose so many dice that you cant cast with the second one, all the while hoping that you get enough power dice each round to actually caste it twice.

thats WAY to many "if" situations.
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Koroviev
Clanrat
You should try it out. You seem confident. I just don't see it working against savvy opponents.

I honestly don't see it as an easy win, even if you pull off the double 13th (chances are that it won't happen). Look at your plan when used against your own army. A well-placed doomrocket into those clanrats is likely to do more damage than the 13th. A plague will get 43 kills on average. If you're within 24, they can surely be within 18 next turn. Unless your seers are rushing ahead of their bunkers.
Edited by Koroviev, 16th October 2011 - 01:11 AM.
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Borgomos
Warlord
The main problem here that i see is thus...one of those characters has to be the general. So one of the Seer's gotta be the general(since the warlocks LD is low, he is not a useful general himself). Any decent opponent will just kill that Grey Seer, and the Army is robbed of it's precious leadership.

Also consider the fact that your opponent might field a general who is not an infantry(and therefore immune to 13th). Brets, WoC, VC, O&G, Ogres, Daemons are example armies who can(and do) field generals that you cannot target with your 13th spell.

I also applaud the confidence i really go...but honesty, i can't see this working at all.
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skarsnik
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Clanrat
Ok guys, tanks for sharing your knowledge and spending your time. I'm gonna give this one up due to so much reasonable critic. To be honest the last argument kinda got me, I didn't consider that the 13th only affects infantry units, without being reminded of that I proparbly would have tried it out.

Well thank all of you once more.

May the horned have a little more mercy for you than for the rest.
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jpd
Plague Decon
I think I've managed to cast the dreaded 13th spell twice (well I thought I had till the darned dispel scrolls were thrown down). If you've got the models and like experimenting play the list a few times. See how you get on what's the worst that can happen? Then learn from your experiences, and modify the list to suit.

I play against gobo's a lot and usually field 3-4 units of 20 slaves, the reason for this is to charge them up and draw out the fanatics before the rest of my army turns up, I use to use tunnelling teams to draw the fanatics out into the rear of the army but this was very hit or miss.

I use a lot of cheesy lists just because I like the units characters or the fluff, its just a bit of fun at the end of the day.

I have a pure skryer army list which is extremely temperamental.
I plague monk force which is bags of fun but a one trick pony, charge :)
A small 1000 pts moulder force,
and a small clan eshin list just a 1000 pts too.

pretend inferiority and encourage his arrogance
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skarsnik
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Clanrat
why don't you use giant rats to get the fanatics out? 23points instead of 40points if I don't get anything wrong.
Edited by skarsnik, 18th October 2011 - 12:58 PM.
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jpd
Plague Decon
sometimes I do, in this edition I've also used rat swarms, the main reason I use slaves is the don't cause panic when beaten in combat and they go pop when beaten in combat, so you have the chance of taking out the fanatic.

I have to say I have no qualms with creating sacrificial units, who's job is to die and get in the way.

If possible try to get your opponent to release the fanatics to the rear of the unit, small unit of sneaky infiltrators or a unit and warp grinder. That way it can play havoc with his army and leave your force in a slightly better position.
pretend inferiority and encourage his arrogance
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skarsnik
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Clanrat
Thanks for the advice.
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