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| Banner of Dripping Death; The most underrated Skaven magic item? | ||
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| Tweet Topic Started: 28th August 2011 - 09:09 PM (1,687 Views) | ||
| scratchydoom | 28th August 2011 - 09:09 PM Post #1 | |
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Seer
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Hey guys, flicking through my army book i noticed this banner... now imagine this: your expensive stormvermin unit has just been charged by a unit of 6 dragon princes, but wait! don't call a flee reaction just yet. Before those B@#terdly elves start rolling those 13 S6 attacks 3 of them dropped dead before anyhting happens, adding to your combat resolution.... so now for my question is this not the most underated item ever? i cant help but fielding it! Imagine against chaos nights, wounding on a 5+ (they are T4 right?) thats still two down in a unit of 6 for a 30 point magic banner! |
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Scratch the enganuative My Army Diary Painting List Magnetising Miniatures | ||
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| Scurrilous | 28th August 2011 - 09:21 PM Post #2 | |
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Warlord
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I have to say I like this banner a lot, it has been great fun. Right now I'm wondering if the Stormbanner is entirely such a need-have item or if I could experiment some more but.. habits are hard to break. | |
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Tournemant results to date: vs Vampire Counts: 1 victory vs Dwarves: 1 victory vs Daemons: 1 Draw vs Brettonians: 1 draw, 1 loss vs Skaven: 1 victory vs Lizardmen: 1 victory vs Dark Elves: 1 loss vs High Elves: 1 loss | ||
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| Razuli | 29th August 2011 - 01:04 AM Post #3 | |
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Grey Seer
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The storm banner really isn't a must have. We are one of the few fortunate armies who don't need to fully optimize our list to stay somewhat competetive in a tourny. As to the banner, yes its actually quite good. It usually just loses out in most competetive builds becuase the SV usually have the razor banner (occasionally the storm banner), and PMs will almost always have the plague banner, leaving the BSB with the storm banner unless the player decided to give the BSB magic items instead. It can be a good alternative to the razor banner though, especially if you don't fight dwarves or warriors as often as other armies. |
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| scratchydoom | 29th August 2011 - 08:05 AM Post #4 | |
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Seer
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I really dont see -1 to an opponents armour save being better than 50% of their front rank dying from auto hit strength 3 no armour save attacks. Havn't math hammered it however. I think this standard would be insane against calvary or Chaos warriors due to their excellent armour saves. |
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Scratch the enganuative My Army Diary Painting List Magnetising Miniatures | ||
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| SkavenDan | 29th August 2011 - 08:45 AM Post #5 | |
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Doomwheel Fanatic
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I have taken the BODD & Under empire banner on SV and withered whatever was nearest to them once you get the T down they can mow through units with a bit of support. | |
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| Ablabab | 29th August 2011 - 10:26 AM Post #6 | |
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Chieftain
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Remember that the Shroud of Dripping Death affects only models in base-to-base contact with the Standard Bearer. That's 2 Chaos Knights AT MOST, and typically 3 20mm-based opponents. That's why it sucks. | |
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| Razuli | 29th August 2011 - 01:35 PM Post #7 | |
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Grey Seer
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Keep in mind that becuase of halberds, SV would have a -2 armour effect due to the razor banner, allowing them to completely ignore most armie's' core armour while giving them a better chance at hurting the more elite units. Like Ablabab said, the banner only works with enemies in base contact with the banner, not the unit, so you would need to roll well to kill all of the enemies (typically 3) in base contact. | |
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| scratchydoom | 29th August 2011 - 02:39 PM Post #8 | |
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Seer
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ok so lets say your fighting agains 6 dragon princes with a formation of 6x7... essuming they have a 2+ save (cant remember!) With Razor standard 13 attacks, 6.5 hits ~4.33 wounds 2.16 dead after a 4+ armour save (-2 due to razor standard and halberds) With banner of dripping death 2? calvary models in base contact? so one death (done at the start of the combat phase so they loose attacks unless they have ranks) 13 attacks, 6.5 hits ~4.33 wounds 1.44 dead after a 3+ save so 0.28 more deaths lol, not a huge difference but it can be beneficial when fighting low model units as it is done at the start of the combat phase making them loose attacks! as well as this, depending on what your opponent is using, it may make them think twice about persuing with the D6 +2 damage done when chasing you done. Originally i thought this item effected every model in base contact with the unit, and when you guys where saying its not that good it made me re-read it cheers, now it doesnt seem as good...Where i can see the razor standard rocking is in combination with a death frenzy spell... but that is expensive to do as storm vermin arn't cheap and losing D6 worth a turn hurts... |
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Scratch the enganuative My Army Diary Painting List Magnetising Miniatures | ||
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| Rakchew | 29th August 2011 - 04:09 PM Post #9 | |
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Hack 'n Slash!
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It would be amazing if clanrats could take it, d6+2 hits could be pretty nasty when they eventually flee, plus the 3 hits for every round they stay steadfast in combat. Not sure its worth it for SV tho, as they have better choices. Also, the Plague Banner is a no brainer for the monks. | |
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8th edition Skaven Tournament record 3-2, 2-1, 4-1, 2-1 East Coast Glory | ||
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| Slide Shade | 30th August 2011 - 04:33 AM Post #10 | |
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Chieftain
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Well, you conveniently did the math only for T3. I'd be interested to see how it goes against T4 (and I suspect the Razor Standard would pull ahead even further). |
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| scratchydoom | 30th August 2011 - 07:08 AM Post #11 | |
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Seer
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Arn't there more T3 calvary models than T4? in practice i probably will be using the razor standard... death frenzied stormvermin
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Scratch the enganuative My Army Diary Painting List Magnetising Miniatures | ||
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| Krogholt | 30th August 2011 - 07:36 AM Post #12 | |
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Chieftain
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Well, just for the fun of it I bring you the math for T4 (both with a 2+ AS as in Blood Knights, and with a 1+ AS as in Chaos Knights): Against Chaos Knights (T4, 1+ AS) With Razor standard 13 attacks, 6.5 hits 3.25 wounds 1.08 dead after a 3+ armour save (-2 due to razor standard and halberds) With banner of dripping death 2? calvary models in base contact? so 0.67 death (done at the start of the combat phase so they loose attacks unless they have ranks) 13 attacks, 6.5 hits ~3.25 wounds 0.54 dead after a 2+ save Total = 1.21 dead Against Blood Knights (T4, 2+ AS) With Razor standard 13 attacks, 6.5 hits 3.25 wounds 1.63 dead after a 4+ armour save (-2 due to razor standard and halberds) With banner of dripping death 2? calvary models in base contact? so 0.67 death (done at the start of the combat phase so they loose attacks unless they have ranks) 13 attacks, 6.5 hits ~3.25 wounds 1.08 dead after a 3+ save Total = 1.75 dead So even against the standard T4 cavalry out there, the banner of dripping death still works better than the razor standard (with this specific number of troops involved... Add more stormvermin in base-to-base contact, and the balance will eventually tip in favour of the razor standard)... Actually, if you have more than 16 Stormvermin attacks, the razor-banner is better. Edited by Krogholt, 30th August 2011 - 07:38 AM.
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| Flem | 30th August 2011 - 12:28 PM Post #13 | |
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A blood curling cough a day, keeps the assassins away
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I actually use the banner quite often when fielding stormvermin(and not taking the stormbanner), it's not that uber but it's good fun especially against those elf chars. I've tried to combo this with wither and then the banner really brings out it's potential. The only problem i see with this banner is that while usefull against cav you can only affect 2 models of them, it's usefull against low T elite units with the same base size (like elf infantry or empire greatswords). Flem, |
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![]() I don't own this image !!!
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| mrdonkey | 31st August 2011 - 12:41 AM Post #14 | |
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Clanrat
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Besides the aforementioned issue of the banner only working against 2 or 3 models at the very most, the biggest problem I can see is that getting the most out of this banner usually entails the SV fighting something that they really shouldn't be fighting in the first place. Let those nasty knight units and super-elites pick on Slaves for a while, the Stormvermin should be off hacking up their measlier troops. Razor, Underempire, and even Eternal Flame are all better choices IMO. Edited by mrdonkey, 31st August 2011 - 12:43 AM.
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| JollyPuggles | 1st September 2011 - 05:37 PM Post #15 | |
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As mentioned, it's really that "models in base contact" thing that really makes the BoDD worth less than it looks. Against knights (which is what it's most useful against), it's possible that it will only affect 1 model per turn (20mm base vs. 25mm base). The d6+3 autohits if your enemy pursues also looks quite nice, but by the time your opponent comes to pursuit, he knows you have the banner and will try to restrain if he can, so it's really only useful against units that can't restrain pursuit (like those with Frenzy). - The Razor Standard is my staple for my Stormvermin. The -2 ASM means they chew through most common infantry and even have a chance at killing a knight or two. - The BoEF can, if you get lucky, be very useful against cavalry-heavy armies like Bretonnians, because of the Fear, but you'll really need it to be backed up by Portents of Verminous Doom and the Sacred Standard of the Horned Rat to really get much use out of it. - Against low-T armies, like Elves, the BotUE is better than the BoDD, if only because those 2d6 hits can really rack up a lot of kills (especially if combined with Wither), regardless of armour saves (though very high armour saves can almost negate it completely). Just do a quick bit of statistical maths and you see the results...and it's 5pts cheaper too. - If you've a Screaming Bell or Plague Furnace, the Rangers' Standard can be a godsend in terrain-heavy environments...avoiding those potentially lethal dangerous terrain tests is mighty handy! - The War Banner or Banner of Clan Superiority will both earn a more reliable addition to your Combat Resolution than the BoDD over the course of a game. I've tried using the BoDD and I want to like it, but even against its target opponent of heavily armoured kinghts and such, it's just not that impressive and I'd rather take any of the above than spend the points on it. It's not a complete waste of points, but the few times it really shines are always overshadowed by the many times it does next to nothing. |
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| Aargh! Ping. ThortFtar! | ||
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cheers, now it doesnt seem as good...

