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Lots of newbie questions from a newbie player
Topic Started: 22nd August 2011 - 07:52 AM (586 Views)
koffietje
Warlord
Hi all,

as king ( I just promoted myself, 5 minutes ago (last week i was commander. Yesterday i became general...Maybe tomorrow...God? ) of my own Skaven army, i have some questions about my subordinates. (or however you call those little pesky ratlike things that half the time refuse to do my bidding. Really, is it that hard to go to the front door and retrieve my newspaper? Even my dog can do it...)

I have a 1000 points army now. And yes...i like the Rat ogres even though i have no idea on how to use them at all...
So here are some questions i came up tonight ( drank 7 cups of coffee the evening before. Caffeine caught up with me , i guess...)


1) rat ogres have a base attack of 3. But they are frenzied. Am i correct to say this means they get 4 attacks in the first rank then , as long as they havent been defeated?

2) On page 81 of my newly approved bible (aka rulebook) it says "monstrous infantry model can make as many suporting attacks as are on its profile , up to a maximum of three, rather then the usual one supporting attack. Does this mean, if I have 5 rat ogres (3 in the first row, 2 in the second row) that those rat ogres do 3+1(frenzy)X3 attacks and the second row of ratogres does 2X3 attacks?

3) This should actually be 2B: If i put in 2 packmasters to fill the gap in my Rat ogre unit (I can add 2 packmasters) and since i can alter one to become a master moulder (With 2 attacks) , would this mean that i would then be able to do an additional 2+1 attacks in the same unit? (two for the moulder, and one for the normal packmaster?)
My setup would look kinda like this

RO (rat ogre)
m (moulder)
p (packmaster)

RO RO RO
RO mp RO

4) The glue in my starterskit. Does it GLUE things together or does it actually melt the plastic away a little bit, thus welding the parts together?

5) I recently bought the batallion set of the skaven ( i just started playing in June and already spent like 250 euro's on the game. My girlfriend considers me crazy, but i m not entirely sure if thats due to me playing Warhammer) There are a lot of ornamental small rats in the box. Also there are 9 giant rats. I thought of using the ornamental ones as giant rats as well. Is that like the most clever sceme anyone has ever concucted or would it make me the laughing stock of every Warhammer shop? (in other words...am i allowed to do that?)

6) I play skaven according to two rules : 1) size matters 2) A lot of little ones, make big too (just look at china...)
That being said, i really like Giant rats. They small, they cost hardly anything and theres so many of them. Am i allowed to set up my giant rats like this :
(G = giant rat)
(P = Packmaster)

GGGGG
GGPPG
GGGGG
GGGGG

The reason why i want to do it like this , is simply because those packmasters have whips or thing catchers, and i d really like them to use it, without getting killed. If i put them in the back, the packmasters remain pretty useless.
Also , does strengh in number count for the giant rats too?

7) my starterbox contains a Warlord. He looks kinda nice, standing on his rock, waving viciously with an axe and even a banner and some other usefull stuff you shouldnt leave at home when going to war. I use him as my general (King now...) But the rulebook says that you re not allowed to take lords, when you play games of less then 2000 points. Now since my girlfriend uses a prince on a gryffon to beat the ratdroppings out of me... i only consider it fair to install my warlord as well.
Basically my question is... since we re not allowed to use a warlord in a 1000 point game (since its a lord)... what should i use as a general/commander/king/god then? and why, if i m not allowed to use it...is it in the startersbox?
Edited by koffietje, 22nd August 2011 - 07:58 AM.
against.................. won ............ lost

Skaven...................1...................0
High Elfs.................1....................1
dark elfs.................0....................0
chaos warriors.......0....................0
demons..................0....................0
dwarves.................2....................1
bretonian................0....................0
empire....................0....................0
lizards.....................0...................0
tomb king................0...................0
vampires.................1...................0
beast men...............1...................0
wood elfs................0....................0
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jek


koffietje
22nd August 2011 - 07:52 AM
and why, if i m not allowed to use it...is it in the startersbox?
To make you want to buy the set
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Krogholt
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Chieftain
I'll try my best to answer your questions, but it seems like you have a pretty good grip on them already.

1) Yes

2) Yes

3) Yes, but with some limitations. The thing is, that a master moulder qualifies as a champion, and therefore has to be placed in the front rank. So your formation would be something like
MM RO RO RO
PM RO RO
This is really annoying, and practically makes the electro-whip useless (since the main advantage is that it gives D3 attacks, and can still attack over a rank of rat ogres, but it can only be given to a master-moulder which must be in the front rank... But it was FAQ'ed by GW, so that's how it is.

4) GW sells three types of glue.
- PVA glue (white stuff in a large container) that you mainly use to glue grass onto your bases
- super glue which can be used to glue metal, plastic, your fingers, basically anything together.
- plastic glue which can only glue plastic together. The plastic glue "melts" the plastic, causing very strong bonds between different parts, and is definitely the best for plastic figures.

Read on the label of the glue, and if it says plastic glue, then yes, it melts the plastic :)

5) Feel free to use all of the small rats as giant rats. Many people do that. If you think some of the smallest look too tiny, you could always put two small rats on a single base. It looks really nice when you get a large unit with rats swarming all over the place.

6) As far as I remember, PMs are allowed to attack over 3 ranks of giant rats, so you could just organize your unit like this:

GGPPG
GGGGG
GGGGG
GGGGG

However, your question is still valid for the case where you have even more giant rats. I don't think the rules specify that the packmaster must be at the back of the unit, so I think your idea is valid. Unfortunately I don't have my book with me, so I can't look it up.

7) The change to 8th edition removed the rule for 2000+ points for choosing a lord. I think the faq states that the entire page with "Army List" is to be ignored, and you should follow the rules in the BRB.
Basically this means that you should just conform to the percentage requirements, that is
max 25 % lords
max 25 % heros
min 25 % core
max 50 % special
max 25 % rare
- plus some restrictions on doubles/triples of the same special and rare units...

Therefore you can easily field a warlord in a 1000 pts game. You can even field multiple, or a grey seer if you want to.


I hope this helped a bit :D
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Flem
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A blood curling cough a day, keeps the assassins away

1. you are correct because if frenzy they get plus 1 attack and so have 4.

2.Correct again :-)

3. False, onlye other monsterous infantry/cavalry/beasts can make the up to 3 support attacks. Plus if i'm not mistaken the master moulder is a champion so he has to be in the front rank.

4. Plastic glue melts the plastic together :-)

5. DO IT :P giant rats are to expensive to buy in a box of 6, i've already seen tons of people do it and am guilty of doing it myself ;-)

6. That's setup is allowed. And as long as the packmasters are alive you get strenght in numbers.
Posted Image
I don't own this image !!!

Quote:
 
Let all of skavendom tremble before our pox and might, beware our vengefull gaze brought forth in both fever and blight !


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koffietje
Warlord
This helped me out a lot. Thanks for the information.
Just one more question. Exactly when did those rules change? Cause i bought my Island of blood set in june with the rulebook in it. It tends to make me believe i bought an outdated rulebook in a GW shop????
against.................. won ............ lost

Skaven...................1...................0
High Elfs.................1....................1
dark elfs.................0....................0
chaos warriors.......0....................0
demons..................0....................0
dwarves.................2....................1
bretonian................0....................0
empire....................0....................0
lizards.....................0...................0
tomb king................0...................0
vampires.................1...................0
beast men...............1...................0
wood elfs................0....................0
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Flem
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A blood curling cough a day, keeps the assassins away

That's what the rulebook says, the 25% thing. It's the armybook (that dates from 7th edition) that mentions no lords can be taken under 2000 points, this is ignored due to the new edtion rulebook.
Posted Image
I don't own this image !!!

Quote:
 
Let all of skavendom tremble before our pox and might, beware our vengefull gaze brought forth in both fever and blight !


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WillQueek
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Got Nerfed
7) (cuzz it's most important) :read: the :RB: and :read: the FAQ

i suppose you have the rulebook.......
here's a link to the FAQ: FAQ skaven

The rest seems ansered....
FOR THE GLORY OF THE HORNED RAT OF COURSE!

Posted Image
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scratchydoom
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Seer
Your question regarding the glue:

What a good plastic glue is, is actually "polystyrene cement" and is designed to melt two pieces together. Why am I telling you this? DONT BUY IT FROM GAMES WORKSHOP :KA-BOOM: ! you can by bottles BIGGER than theirs for a fraction of the price! :D

In Australia i pay $12AU for the glue (Euro 9) which is ridiculous, you can buy better glue dispensers for around $4 au (~3 Euro)...
PVA glue is even worse, go to a hardware store if you need it :D
Scratch the enganuative
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Silas
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The Great Bunny. Now with a mop. :)

Scratchy that may be due to Games Workshop's hatred of Australia though :P (I recon it's because the local wildlife puts their monsters to shame) :P

Joking aside you will be better off buying all your hobby tools (Knifes, glues, clippers and probably paints) from somewhere that isn't Games Workshop since their prices are really high.

As for you questions I think Krogholt has it right on all accounts though I have a feeling there has been debate on if the packmasters has to go at the back so for that one I will wait for Dan or Cap to come along.
Gate keeper of the Armoury of Poking Sticks. :duel:

THE BUNNY HAS AWOKEN!!!
THE BUNNY WILL EAT!!!
THE BUNNY SHALL FIGHT!!!
THE BUNNY SHALL WIN!!!
THE BUNNY SHALL INHERIT!!!
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Razuli
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Grey Seer
I hae no trouble with their paints or glue at all, I still use different companies for my modeling knies, brushes, and basically anything I need that isn't paint or glue. Maybe its where I'm at, but GW is currently middle of the road as far as glue prices are concerend.
skavenmatt,Sep 11 2010
10:05 PM
Playing skaven to minimize randomness is like going to prom with your sister, you can do it if you really want, but in the end everyone will still laugh even if you do get lucky.


Clanlord Trask
18th April 2011 - 03:46 AM
I always take at least one Warpfire Thrower. You can't always rely on your opponent to do massive damage to your troops. Sometimes, you just have to do a job yourself.

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Olorin the Ancient
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I've heard that Games Workshop's formulas for glue and spray primer are different in different countries, so that the spray primer that some people rave about in Europe simply isn't what we get in America.

Currently, my preferred glue for plastic models is the Testors Model Master Plastic Cement (in the square bottle with the needle applicator) and, for cyanoacrylate (super glue), I like the Gale Force 9 Hobby Glue. The Games Workshop PVA that we get in America is great; definitely better than Elmer's, though much more expensive.
- Olorin the Ancient
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scratchydoom
Member Avatar
Seer
Just go for polystyrene cement, if it says that on it, it is made from "Butanone" which is a very common item. +1 for the needle applicator, that is what i have at home :D i've picked it up for AU$2.50 which is awesome :D

Regarding the hatred of Australia, yes it is true, GW does hate us... Maybe it is the rent prices for the stores they have? our properties are rather expensive (where i live)... screaming bell AU$96 which is 62 british pounds... while the brits pay 32 pounds for it in england.... nearly 100% more expensive!
Scratch the enganuative
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Alimus


Actually the Screaming Bell/Plage Furnace Kit in Britain is now an extortionate £36!

Although it can be had for about £28 from online re-sellers, I never buy any of my stuff from GW any more, even GW models can be bought new from online resellers for between 15-25% cheaper than they charge in the shops.

Unfortunately they've recently banned these resellers from selling outside of the EU so they can maintain those ridiculous profit margins in places like Australia.

Regarding needle applicators they're good but I'd stay away from the Revell ones they do in the UK, from my experience when it sets it seems to go very brittle compared to other brands.
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Skavendrool
Chieftain
>Just one more question. Exactly when did those rules change? Cause i bought my Island of blood set in june with the rulebook in it. It tends to make me believe i bought an outdated rulebook in a GW shop????

Welcome to the wonderful world of GW. The 8th edition rules came out in ... early 2010? while the Skaven army book came out in ?late 2009? But there are so many army books (Skaven, Dwarfs, Empire etc.) that after the base Warhammer rules change, it takes years for GW to make new books for all of the armies. Our Skaven army book was one of the last published under the old 7th edition base rules. This (partly) explains the extensive FAQ for our army book, because once 8th edition Warhammer came out, GW has (slowly) been addressing some of the inconsistencies between the old 7th edition army books and the 8th edition base rules. It will be a couple of years before we rats get a new army book, so you might as well print out the FAQ and figure out what the changes mean. Indeed, I think that Bretonnians and Ogre Kingdoms are still using 6th edition army books (though I guess Ogres are imminently getting their 8th edition upgrade?)

And, training your rats to fetch the paper is a bad idea. A little warpstone, and they'll learn to read it, and then you are in trouble.
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