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How to improve our units; The sucky ones.
Topic Started: 16th August 2011 - 03:32 PM (1,072 Views)
Scarr, Reincarnated
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11th creator of the Skaven Achievements. Binder of IceAc.
scratchydoom
19th August 2011 - 10:10 AM
I really dont think that night runner should have killing blow. I think it would be cool if they had a 6+ dodge save, hand weapon and the option to take a net that would up their dodge save to 5+ in combat, as well as having detrimental effects on the enemy unit (-1 initiative or WS) then they would be great as a support unit :P
Well that sounds sensible.

But I would like seeing Gutter Runners and Assassins having an option for Killing Blow. They are mastering the skills of killing fast...
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Flem
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A blood curling cough a day, keeps the assassins away

Scarr, Reincarnated
19th August 2011 - 10:14 AM
scratchydoom
19th August 2011 - 10:10 AM
I really dont think that night runner should have killing blow. I think it would be cool if they had a 6+ dodge save, hand weapon and the option to take a net that would up their dodge save to 5+ in combat, as well as having detrimental effects on the enemy unit (-1 initiative or WS) then they would be great as a support unit :P
Well that sounds sensible.

But I would like seeing Gutter Runners and Assassins having an option for Killing Blow. They are mastering the skills of killing fast...
I think armour piercing would be more logic. The quick kill is actually done by the use of poisen, they are how ever trained to hit your soft spots so i'd likearmour piercing more on them. Killing blow would be OP for anything beneath an assassin. Also like the dark elves a list of assassin items would be very cool.

Flem,
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Mossa
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+1 BS and W on Weapon & Jezzail Teams and I would be very satisfied rat indeed (Doom Flayer might even need S5 on top of that)
Mutate: and if they recives a wound , everyone would roll an additional dice and pick the lowest (major increase in misfire especially for Ratling gun)

PWG always hit on 4+ , simplified rules for shooting into cc , hits = enemy , miss = friendly , 1 = drops the ball on themselfs , might even drop cost to 8p
Mutate: Not always , but ignore all penalties from the BRB like marching , long range etc , but not magical like Shadow Magnet Trinket or Storm Banner
Making it extremly likely to hit our own troops if the banner is active :rolleyes:

NR given dodge and option to buy armour piercing and nets sounds like it can make me use the unit for the first time (thus making GR start with AP)
Mutate: oh and give the Night Leader the option to have smoke bomb , and the unit might be overcosted but interesting

PCB +1 Init , drop 2 points

Drop the points to 400 on the VL and given option to buy stuff (like deamons) perhaps force the enemy to re-roll arty dice ?
Mutate: Should under no circumstances have better then 5+ Ward (from shooting)

Drop 1p on the SV and/or give them 6 Init B)
Mutate: Not so broken , but rarely used

.. thats only imho

Abom needs to cost more
same can be said for All of our Rare choices. Maybe not the Catapult :ph43r:
Mutate: Catapult .. cheaper or better ? at least the cannon needs to be more expensive for me to even consider it

Edited by Mossa, 19th August 2011 - 09:31 PM.
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scratchydoom
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Mossa
19th August 2011 - 07:47 PM

Abom needs to cost more
same can be said for All of our Rare choices. Maybe not the Catapult :ph43r:

Blasphemy! our rare choice point costs are more than fair (from a skaven POV)~!!!
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Mossa
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scratchydoom
19th August 2011 - 09:19 PM

Blasphemy! our rare choice point costs are more than fair (from a skaven POV)~!!!
Oh I must have had a bad mix of warpstone today .. i'll immediatly withdraw all such claims ^_^
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Merhotep
Stormvermin
It's always bothered me that the Eshin mainstay missile - throwing stars - have absolutely no redeeming value; no bonus to hit, no strength bonus or bonus to wound, no poison (at least GR got this - hooray!), the worst range in the game (and they even take a -1 to hit any target 3" away!), and no multiple shots. Why would Eshin ever use them? I love the flavor, so no strength bonus and horrible range are in character, but something has to change (maybe +2 to hit with no range penalty at 'long' ranges over 3", or give them poison even for night runners, or multi-shot - give 'em something!)

Globadiers need to be cheaper to gamble on fielding them in the first place, so I never see anybody using them.

Censer bearers shouldn't mow themselves down just to get a single test by an enemy character/monster/chariot/whatever. I'd pay more if the T test would kill (like Skrolk's), instead of just wound, or if the test was one roll per remaining wound the model has. Something to bring reason back to CB combat - right now, the larger the CB unit up against any single opponent model, the more certain that the CB unit will automatically lose! (Think of a unit of 18 CBs intended to assault and hold a scenario target building - a hero charges them, and they generally take 3 gas wounds before the first swing occurs! A unit of 3 CBs is always expected to fare better than the 18 CBs are...)


VL needs to bre decidedly cheaper, and/or given more daemonic options. Can't think of a scenario where 2 grey seers, 2 abominations, or one of each won't always be a better selection. I haven't seen a VL fielded in 3 editions!

War teams are too costly for single wound T3 models (and doomflayer needs some punch!); giving them W2 instead of the 4+ ward would even be a little better (first wound kills them half the time with 4+ and always when no 4+) For about the same price, you can buy two gobbo bolt-throwers that have great range, toughness, and multiple wounds - surely at least some of the war teams should be less pricey, especially with T3, one wound, and such short range.

Is 'stealthiness' useful enough to buy night runners? They seem overpriced to me (unless throwing stars eventually get much better...) Almost never see them or use them myself.

Thank goodness for the BRB! The skaven were naked with regard to magic protection - I always thought that at least the Screaming Bell should be able to mess with enemy spellcasting, if the skaven had no other mechanism to do so.

Bring back Lead from the Rear!!!!
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Mossa
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Throwing stars should perhaps recive a boost in the form of a stomp attack .. always strike last str 3 ?
and have the range of a pistol ;)

Globadiers - see my previous post

Weapon Teams & Jezzails , should be cheaper or improved - previous post

.. What happend to lead from the rear ? Some things were better in the old days ^^
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Razuli
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Merhotep
19th August 2011 - 09:37 PM
Censer bearers shouldn't mow themselves down just to get a single test by an enemy character/monster/chariot/whatever. I'd pay more if the T test would kill (like Skrolk's), instead of just wound, or if the test was one roll per remaining wound the model has. Something to bring reason back to CB combat - right now, the larger the CB unit up against any single opponent model, the more certain that the CB unit will automatically lose! (Think of a unit of 18 CBs intended to assault and hold a scenario target building - a hero charges them, and they generally take 3 gas wounds before the first swing occurs! A unit of 3 CBs is always expected to fare better than the 18 CBs are...)
Keep in mind PCB's gas tests are a 'bonus' of sorts, not its main sorce of damage. PCBs still have 3 A (including frenzy) with hatred and a flail bonus in the first round of combat. All they really need are a slight points decrease, or the bonus Initiative and they will be fine.

To be honest, I'd prefer most of our "bad" units just get slight point decreases rather than imporved stats. Skaven are not an army of elites.
skavenmatt,Sep 11 2010
10:05 PM
Playing skaven to minimize randomness is like going to prom with your sister, you can do it if you really want, but in the end everyone will still laugh even if you do get lucky.


Clanlord Trask
18th April 2011 - 03:46 AM
I always take at least one Warpfire Thrower. You can't always rely on your opponent to do massive damage to your troops. Sometimes, you just have to do a job yourself.

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scratchydoom
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Razuli
19th August 2011 - 11:08 PM

To be honest, I'd prefer most of our "bad" units just get slight point decreases rather than imporved stats. Skaven are not an army of elites.
Thats a fair call, but making a "crap" or "useless" unit that doesnt achieve anything cheaper is pointless, slaves/giant rats are already there to fill that spot in the army...
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Demonrat Thing
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The Bloated
Night runners should be init 4, WS 3, M 6, for 5 points with the option for poison for 2 pts per model. Give'm an additional hand weapon for 1 pt a piece and you pretty much have a similiar unit as ghouls. IMO

Jezzails should be 13-15pts a piece. PCB's 15 pts. PWG's should always hit on 5+ and wound on a 5+ for 8pts a piece and be Core again. Abom should at least be 250pts before spikes, but Im happy its 235. WLC should be 100, not a big change but a change. PCC should be 90 not 100.
Stormvermin...dont get me started. okay, I'll go there. Option for halberds, we shouldnt be forced to take them. S4 at least, before halberds. LD 6. with this I would say keep them 7 points and make them a special choice halberds/shields +1 pt each.
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WillQueek
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Got Nerfed
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special choice

???

they should stay core. If there special our army sinks on the list satormvermin are one of our best infantery units (next to PM's)
Edited by WillQueek, 22nd August 2011 - 01:12 PM.
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