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Forge World Vermin Lord.
Topic Started: 5th April 2011 - 10:25 AM (8,633 Views)
Olorin the Ancient
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CapAmr05
26th May 2011 - 01:37 PM
I have always really liked the old Verminlord model, I know it's not the most awesome model GW ever put out, nostalgic I guess.

I really want to use him again competitively, but he's just got so many weakness I can't stomach him on paper.

--Cap
I'm with Cap on this. I've never used the Vermin Lord myself, but I am fond of the current model. I'm still not entirely convinced that this new figure is a Vermin Lord--at least, not without some additional evidence. To me, it still looks more like a scenery piece.
- Olorin the Ancient
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SkavenDan
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Its probably the finecast model. I'd love to field him but hes too much with a poor save and can't hide.
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Slide Shade
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Hellpit Bob
26th May 2011 - 09:20 AM
Maybe Slide Shade, but don't you think that at least a passing nod to something warlike is needed for a model exisiting in a wargame? I'm not suggesting a link to the current model's aesthetic (a good point you make there), just a more warlike being, more inspiring, threatening......and obviously so, on the table.....rather than having that deadly awesomeness hidden in a more intellectual way. Wargames are all about obvious, aren't they? :)

Bob.
"Warlike" is a generalistic and subjective term that is effectively empty of meaning. Do Screaming Bells, Plague Furnaces, any of our wizards, Globadiers/Mortars, Giant Rats, Rat Swarms, etc. look warlike? How about our rickety war machines? There's no better army than Skaven for something that looks like a total mess on the surface, but is actually a deadly component on the battlefield. He needs to look impressive and imposing, but he doesn't need to be an armoured muscleman. That's not very Skaveny at all.

Olorin the Ancient, I hate to say it, but you're completely delusional if you think that's anything other than a Verminlord.

Are you unfamiliar with the kind of projects Forgeworld tackles? I know some WFB purists are new to this whole thing, having been neglected by Forgeworld's 40k bias for so long. They are not in the business of sculpting weird, tiny bits of scenery. They mainly do big vehicles, big monsters, highly-specialized infantry, or unique armies that are not represented in GW's main model range.

They obviously wanted to dip their toe in the water with Skaven, since they're such a popular army, and the Verminlord was the perfect starting point. All of the other big, centrepiece models of the Skaven army have brand-new models -- I'm talking about the Bell/Furnace, the war machines, the HPA. The Verminlord was a big model that was stuck with an old sculpt that had been dwarfed by the modern monsters of other ranges.

Personally, I'd more interested in them doing a Warlord on Bonebreaker (and I think they would sell more, to boot), but the Verminlord is more iconic and majestic.
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Olorin the Ancient
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Slide Shade
27th May 2011 - 05:36 AM
Olorin the Ancient, I hate to say it, but you're completely delusional if you think that's anything other than a Verminlord.

Are you unfamiliar with the kind of projects Forgeworld tackles? I know some WFB purists are new to this whole thing, having been neglected by Forgeworld's 40k bias for so long. They are not in the business of sculpting weird, tiny bits of scenery. They mainly do big vehicles, big monsters, highly-specialized infantry, or unique armies that are not represented in GW's main model range.

They obviously wanted to dip their toe in the water with Skaven, since they're such a popular army, and the Verminlord was the perfect starting point. All of the other big, centrepiece models of the Skaven army have brand-new models -- I'm talking about the Bell/Furnace, the war machines, the HPA. The Verminlord was a big model that was stuck with an old sculpt that had been dwarfed by the modern monsters of other ranges.

Personally, I'd more interested in them doing a Warlord on Bonebreaker (and I think they would sell more, to boot), but the Verminlord is more iconic and majestic.
Given that even Grey Seers are supposed to be deathly afraid of Vermin Lords, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect them to be scary.

I certainly could be delusional (I have been before), but when it comes to this model's identity, I'm simply agnostic. It could be a Vermin Lord, but it could be something else. It's true that Forge World hasn't produced a lot of scenery pieces, but they have done some. GW has promised all sorts of new scenery for the Storm of Magic, and a scenery piece that was so Skaven-specific wouldn't have enough mass appeal to create a plastic kit. Furthermore, look at the illustration of a Vermin Lord on page 40 of the Skaven army book--which looks very much like the current model and nothing like this new thing from Forge World--and at the description: "A Vermin Lord is at once majestic and disgusting, a living icon of ruin, the ultimate scavenger. Although such a being towers in height, it is lithe and quick, its movements evoking the fluid, yet twitchy, scuttling of rats."

Call me crazy, but for me, I don't think that this description (particularly the word "lithe") fits the new Forge World model in any way. For you to identify this gigantic, bloated horned rat definitively as a Vermin Lord--and label me as delusional for having any doubts--is, I think, premature.

I do agree that a Warlord on Bonebreaker--or, for that matter, on a war litter--would sell better and be a more useful model. Even if I absolutely loved the Vermin Lord, I can still think of much better uses for 500 points.
- Olorin the Ancient
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Slide Shade
Chieftain
I still don't agree with the line you guys are drawing between warlike and scary. Great Unclean Ones are scary, right? Is it so hard to believe that a Grey Seer would poop his robes around a Verminlord simply because of the dark and foul magics suffusing the beast, and because of what it represents?

The main problem with the terrain speculation is, I mean, jeez, just look at the model. It's about 40% scenery and 60% "mystery creature" (and that ratio will only skew farther once he has his arms + weapon). And the scenery portion is just a simple arch with a few inscriptions. It would be the lamest piece of terrain ever released. In fact, people would laugh straight in Forgeworld's face and say, "well, I'm using it as a Verminlord/HPA/whatever" so relentlessly that it would become a GW meme like rending ponies, marines riding strange animals, "a wizard did it", pumbagors, and whatever else you can call to mind in that category.

I hope you're right about us getting a lot of SoM terrain, but I expect GW will be producing those kits and trying to sell them to every wargamer and his dog, rather than tasking Forgeworld with obscure terrain designs.

As for the picture of the Verminlord... well, the easy rejoinder to that is, "go look at the picture of the Warp Lightning Cannon". The description is definitely a stretch for describing the model in this thread, but it no more accurately describes the current Verminlord model than it does this one. The current kit fails on the "disgusting" and "towers in height" counts. So I don't see any reason to try and rigidly define the appearance of a Verminlord based on a handful of adjectives selected by one of GW's hack writers.
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avenger649
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My blade shall cause your death
Can we not argue about what the model is. We may have different opinions on it but Just wait until it is released. I do like the model and it will be easier to define what it is once we know. It is terrain with a creature on top if it for now but we cannot tell what it will actually look like until we have more pictures or it is finished and announced.
I have awoken, so have my pets.

My blades will be upon you soon.

Then you will be bathed in warp-fire.

*Laughs evilly*


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Flem
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A blood curling cough a day, keeps the assassins away

I think we all agree that the new VL would make one sinister looking statue ;-)
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I don't own this image !!!

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avenger649
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My blade shall cause your death
That has given me an excuse to buy it if it is good. I am currently building up all my terrain so If it is not expensive that will be good. BUT, then it is forge world so who knows what it will be like.
I have awoken, so have my pets.

My blades will be upon you soon.

Then you will be bathed in warp-fire.

*Laughs evilly*


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Hellpit Bob
Clanrat
It seems pretty clear to me that if this model is going to be released as anything at all, then it will have a stat-line and play, rather than be a statue or some such.

slide shade
 
"Warlike" is a generalistic and subjective term that is effectively empty of meaning. Do Screaming Bells, Plague Furnaces, any of our wizards, Globadiers/Mortars, Giant Rats, Rat Swarms, etc. look warlike? How about our rickety war machines? There's no better army than Skaven for something that looks like a total mess on the surface, but is actually a deadly component on the battlefield. He needs to look impressive and imposing, but he doesn't need to be an armoured muscleman. That's not very Skaveny at all.


Warlike is a general term yes, but is not empty of meaning given the nature of the discussion. If the figure was holding a buch of grapes and playing a harp, it could not, in all fairness, be deemed "warlike". If it is armed and/or armoured, then it is more obviously warlike. And the word "obvious" is the key with wargames figures usually. Bloodthirsters are warlike avatars of death and battle, but are still clad in armour and carry weapons. Unclean ones still brandish a sword, do they not?
Concerning your chosen examples,

Globadiers carry gas grenades...so yeah, warlike.
Mortars are weapons......ditto.
PF's and SB's are warmachines in and of themselves, have spiked rams and are accompanied by warriors.......
Wizards are quite un-warlike in appearance, but magic is their speciality, rather than the cut and thrust of combat.

Verminlords are Greater Daemons, they use magic, but are more than capable of mixing it with the enemy and getting their hands dirty. They use a Hellglaive too....so I think a passing nod toward a more warlike image is fair enough. The model we've been discussing is fairly neutral as regards being warlike, and putting a Glaive in its hands would look a bit silly....the piece still requires something to tie it in with a wargame in my opinion. And that's all this is...my opinion.
If you are happy with a paunchy, large rodent atop an arch, well, buy it. Good for you.

Bob.
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Slide Shade
Chieftain
So a sword is enough to qualify a GUO as "warlike" but a glaive is not enough to qualify a VL.

You're just neck deep in completely arbitrary and subjective waters now.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing some new pics of this guy, hopefully with hulk hogan arms and a glaive four times bigger than would be practical to use. Maybe a chest bandolier of jezzail ammo and a shoulder-mounted LADW (Light Anti-Dwarf Weapon) slung across his back, too. Mark V Power Armour would be nice, but I'm not getting my hopes up.
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dutchwarlord
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Plague Cencer Bearer
A little question: Why would Skaven make such terrain? And if Skaven would make it would it look like this? I've always seen them as genious craftmens but this is not their style is it? It wouldn't look so finely crafted. (look at their big wooden warmachines, just randomly wooden planks put together?)
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Slide Shade
Chieftain
It could be an example of the devotional stonework of the little known Clan Skulpter.
Led into battle by the fearsome and fickle Grey Seer Auguste Rodint
Edited by Slide Shade, 30th May 2011 - 08:07 PM.
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ShuNian
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Self-Proclaimed Miss Skavenblight

I think it's an interesting take. Personally, not my cup of tea- but I find it interesting that they wanted to go with more rat like proportions.
Can't really say anything more on it, as I rather wait for more information on the model itself to be released.
It would be nice to see it completely finished and painted.
Who knows, maybe this is just a prototype of sorts, and they might later go a different direction with it entirely!
"All tunnels lead to Skavenblight..."
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Innerwolf
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Slide Shade
30th May 2011 - 06:23 PM
Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing some new pics of this guy, hopefully with hulk hogan arms and a glaive four times bigger than would be practical to use. Maybe a chest bandolier of jezzail ammo and a shoulder-mounted LADW (Light Anti-Dwarf Weapon) slung across his back, too. Mark V Power Armour would be nice, but I'm not getting my hopes up.
I would buy three of those. It's a shame that sounded like the description of the incoming gold-cast Marneus Calgar model. We Skaven players will reamin denied of such awesomeness.
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SkavenDan
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Doomwheel Fanatic
maybe they will update the vlord in this so called expansion that is coming out.
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