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Some Random Rule Clarifications; Bell and Dweller's and Storm Banners...
Topic Started: 24th January 2011 - 08:34 PM (298 Views)
razaan
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Chieftain
I know some of these have been asked before, and some have been argued to death, but I wanted to kinda put something up here with a list of the things that always seem to come up in my games.

1. Screaming Bell vs. Dweller's Below. Do I make one test or two?
2. If I have a Storm Banner active, but the unit carrying the banner dies, does the effect end immediately?
3. I remember seeing somewhere that characters got a Look Out Sir roll vs. spells that affected an entire unit, like Dweller's. Was that just wish-listing or was there any merit to it?


(if it's not obvious by my questions, I hate Dweller's Below. Nothing more awesome than a single spell that can kill my General with one dice roll)
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Plague Priest Phebrickid
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im not sure about all of them but . . .
1.) I think you get 1 test, at the I of the bell, but Im not sure
3.) It doesn't make sense to get a LoSir against some thing that affects the whole unit and IMO against anything that is an I test that doesn't use a template, again my opinion but not sure
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CapAmr05
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1) Yes; it is afterall one model; one test at the highest value in the model (if that FAQ is still in there) the Rat Ogre's.

2) I think so.

3) Wishful thinking, unless it's a true template spell, or gets clarified by GW; Dwellers, 13th, Gateway do not allow Look Out Sirs.

Some organizations are toying with the idea of implementing a LOS for these 'ultimate' spells; I've heard rumors that the ETC is contemplating putting that into practice.

Though how a random trooper could 'push his hero' far enough out of the way of a spell that sucks the entire unit into oblivion doesn't make sense.

LOS is designed for someone else to take the hit/wound for your hero; when there's no one 'unaffacted' (by the damages) in the unit, someone would have to take a double hit in order for the hero to go unscathed.

--Cap
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Clan Skrittar
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Nicodemus
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I didn't look up anything, I'm simply responding with my knowledge of the rules, so I can, and may very well be, wrong.

It's classification as "unique" makes it difficult to understand how it really operates under the basic rules, but the Skaven Army book makes it quite clear. The Bell/Furnace must be specifically targetted by shooting/spells. In our book, it states that the unit pushing the Bell/Furnace can be targetted or the Bell/Furnace itself.

That being said, if the Bell/Furnace is being targetted, use it's strength 5, if the unit pushing is targetted, it would be the Clanrats/Monks strength (unless there is a character with higher strength somewhere in the unit other than the Seer or Priest on the Bell/Furnace).

I hope I am correct and this helps (sorry I usually have the rulebooks with me but no today)
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Plague Priest Phebrickid
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CapAmr05
Jan 24 2011, 09:43 PM
LOS is designed for someone else to take the hit/wound for your hero; when there's no one 'unaffacted' (by the damages) in the unit, someone would have to take a double hit in order for the hero to go unscathed.

yeah, ive always imagined thats how LoS works, and when your hero has gone down to hell in a big hole it doesn't make sense to jump in after him, you won't do any good ! :)

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CapAmr05
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Nic raises a good point about split targeting between the bell and unit;

Quote:
 
Q. For characteristic tests, is the best value in the unit always
used? (p10)
A. If the unit is required to take a characteristic test, the best
value in the unit is used. If every model in a unit is required
to take a characteristic test, then each model uses its own best
value instead.


Dwellers requires every model to take a test, so each model in the unit would take a test at their own strength (characters and foot troops).

His question about 'one or two tests', was (I think) a question of the Bell and the Seer taking a test (2 tests), or just the 'model' taking the test (1 test); It's 1 test per model;

(it doesn't get split out between rider and mount unless a specific model is targeted and the other portions left alone; clarified via a different spell FAQ about Curse of Bjunna[sp?])

--Cap
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Clan Skrittar
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razaan
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So if I were forced to say, take an Initiative Test on the bell, would I use the initiative of the Rat Ogre or the Grey Seer riding it?
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CapAmr05
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Correct, the highest value available in the components of the bell.

For Strength tests (like dwellers) you'd use the Rat Ogre.

For Int, I'm not sure because I don't field the big guys so their I value is a hazey memory to me.

But remember that's only for a hit/test/spell that is not directable.


For hits in close combat (or that are specifically directable), items such as the blade of realities that cause tests; if your opponent allocates hits onto the bell itself you would use the Bell's listed Stat for leadership (not the Seer's).

--Cap
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Clan Skrittar
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razaan
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Chieftain
I believe the Rat Ogre is initiative 4, whereas the Grey Seer is 5. So I'd assume, since it's a single model, I make one test for Purple Sun at I5.

Last game I played against High Elves, he hit me with Dweller's and demanded I make two tests, one for the Grey Seer, one for the Bell. Luckily I passed them both.
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