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Crack's Call
Topic Started: 24th January 2011 - 04:33 PM (1,507 Views)
Pherion
Clanrat
The question is: Does a character get a look out sir save against the spell Crack's Call.

The spell forces anyone under a line to take an I test or be removed from play. Problem being, we don't know what kind of spell Crack's Call is, because the book came out before 8th ED. Nothing in the FAQ.

Cannons specifically treat their bounce line as a special template, but the rule is very specific to cannons. Is the spell treated similarly, or can we snipe characters with it?
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Grey Seer Exahm
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Gribbly
I'd lean towards saying no to be honest.

It specifically says everything in the path takes an Initiative test. It's the same type of spell as Dwellers Below or Purple Sun, anything takes a test, if it fails, it dies.
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CapAmr05
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As you stated, it depends on if the variable line created by the crack is considered a template or not.

If it is, then yes they get a look out sir.

If it isn't a template, then no.

Personally, I lean towards considering it a template (since are you stated cannons have a *similar* variable linear damage line), but have no proof one way or the other.

The removal from play is different than merely absorbing damage though. The model isn't being struck, but being fully removed (I can't think of any absolute removal in the game currently that allow LOS)

--Cap
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(Z–>)90º – (E–N²W)90ºt = 1

I seem to remember an FAQ or something that said they don't get it. But I can't find it now :unsure: Actually it might have been someone's answer after ringing customer services, and we all know how reliable they are :rolleyes:
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turmi110
Chieftain
Plenty of instant death effects that allow a look out sir roll. Off the top of my head, Purple sun (target is slain), Pit of Shades (target is removed as casualty), Brass Orb (target is destroyed). They are all 'pass an initiative test or die, no saves of any kind allowed' effects, even if they change the wording from slain, to destroyed, to removed as casualties.

These (sun, pit, orb) all differ from cracks call because they are all specifically templates, unfortunately cracks call isn't specified one way or the other. There is no mention of treating cracks call like a cannon's bounce, or even to treat it in any way like a template. It only has a slight resemblance to the cannon bounce. The cannon rules don't say anything to the effect that 'lines are templates' either, just says the bounce is a line, then in the next section, that the bounce is treated like a special kind of template. Its like saying that a tiger is orange with black stripes, and a tiger is a feline. If you say that because the bounce is a line and the bounce is a template therefore lines = templates, then you're saying that all felines are orange with black stripes.

So to me, it isn't a template, doesn't follow the cannonball bounce rules either, so while the cannonball can only hit one model per rank, technically cracks call isn't limited to that, so if you fire it on a slight angle you can get a few extra models (1-2 per rank instead of just the one). As it isn't a template, it doesn't allow LOS rolls, so you can snipe characters with it. This will cause a lot of strife in gaming groups, and some will refuse to believe as such (lizards hate having their TG bunkered slann drop into a crack, fair enough too I suppose, he does float after all :wacko:). I'm fairly sure that the majority of people will say that all felines are orange with black stripes, and refuse to believe otherwise until GW show them a black cat.
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CapAmr05
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Quote:
 
I seem to remember an FAQ or something that said they don't get it. But I can't find it now


Could have been the short lived 7th edition FAQ?

Gateway is the only 'removal' thing that I can think of that doesn't have a template associated with it. Ofcourse 'removing' the entire unit pretty much makes a L.o.S roll meaningless.

--Cap
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Sketch
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scratchings and squeakings

Even if they're technically not allowed a 'Look Out Sir' from it I'd be inclined to let them roll it. What could be more fun or dramatic than the character toppling into the chasm only to have his arm seized at the last second by a lackey before being hauled back out?

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ratwhowouldbeking
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Clanrat
Technically, no LoS! because there is no template - 4d6" is not a template, unless it says "like a cannonball".

It's still the highest spell of the Lore of Ruin, and definitely less heinous than Purple Sun or Dwellers. Many characters should have I5 and be testing on 6's anyway. And if you can get a General with a 4d6" line of your caster, I think you deserve to swallow him whole.
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Paricidas
Doomwheel Driver
In the history of skaven FaQ it has first been ruled as a spell with look-out-sir, later on they removed this and explicitly stated cracks call did not have a look-out-sir and that you should tell your opponent before..

In the new faq I could not find anything about it, so it seems you can play it like you want. RAW its no template, so you dont get a LOS, but I do not think any opponent would start a quarrel because you let him get one.
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Pherion
Clanrat
Thanks for all the replys. I was of the opinion that it wasn't a template too. It was a big deal because I was hitting a Tomb Kings character :) Only I3 LOL... He died a horible death in the ground. Though I'm very sad I didn't get to hit the Bone Giant with it (I1!!!) :(

I guess I'll run it as RAW (no LOS) for now unless they FAQ it later.
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Plague Priest Phebrickid
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'Embrace Pestilence!'
I'm on the no LoS for this one, because I see it as a spell thought up as a character sniper by the writers and also there isn't anything that states you get LoS from non-template weapons and cracks call is not specified as a template but, really TBH Im not sure - another matter for the FAQ anyone? :P
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Rakashani
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Paricidas
Jan 24 2011, 02:12 PM
In the history of skaven FaQ it has first been ruled as a spell with look-out-sir, later on they removed this and explicitly stated cracks call did not have a look-out-sir and that you should tell your opponent before..

In the new faq I could not find anything about it, so it seems you can play it like you want. RAW its no template, so you dont get a LOS, but I do not think any opponent would start a quarrel because you let him get one.

What are the versions on that FAQ history, Parcidas?

Personally, I think it's pretty cheesy to call a 4d6" line *not* a template when an artillery dice line *is* a template, but as has been mentioned, that's an opinion, not something that can be backed up by written rules.

Smacks of "I'm going to roll this die and use it's power but it is not a Power Die."

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Plague Priest Phebrickid
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'Embrace Pestilence!'
rak - I disagree with the whole 'not a power die' yade yada thing too but I just feel this sort of thing shouldn't get a LoS roll in my opinion because I just cant fluff wise see you being able to stop a crack that is appearing from swallowing your faveourite boss - just my opinion by how i read the rules but like I said I dont really know and if the FAQ disagrees with me then I don't mind but until then I see it as no LoS
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CapAmr05
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Quote:
 

What are the versions on that FAQ history, Parcidas?


This among other 'rotating' answers in FAQs is the reason I started saving the different progression of FAQ versions (instead of merely deleting the old ones).

March 2010 FAQ (7th Edition):
Quote:
 
Q. Are eligible characters permitted a ‘Look Out,
Sir!’ roll against Cracks Call?
A. Yes they do, as this spell pretty well fits the
rulebook definition of ‘a ranged attack with unique
targeting rules, which allow the player to
deliberately aim his shot at a character inside a
unit’.


It Disappeared in the first July 2010 FAQ (8th Edition), and has not reappeared <that I could find with a cusory skim> throughout the now five generations of 8th edition FAQs.

I thought I remembered the one prior to march 2010 saying "no LOS at all" (maybe Jan or Feb?); but then again I could be wrong (I don't have any saved prior to March 2010)

I have everything Skaven and BRB since.

--Cap
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Shendar
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Clanrat
I have to agree with most comments above, that Crack's Call doesn't allow the opponent a LoS, mainly due to not using a template. If the LoS would still be in effect, it should have been mentioned in the Armybook or in an erreta.

(This spell totally rules when fighting lizardmen, in my last game I saw a Stegadon tumbling down into the dark (thats friggin 300 points ^^)
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